What is the "Eternal Life" Which is in the Son?

[JerryShugart]

Once a man is in Christ nothing can remove him from there....save the man of his own free will leaving of his own accord....or else being successfully enticed away through his own lusts.

Since a man is not "his own" then I cannot believe that he has any say in the matter once he is redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb:

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor.6:19-20).

Once a person believes the gospel he is no longer his own because he is bought by God with the precious blood of Christ. Since that price is so costly God will not lose that which He purchased.

[John 8:32]

Since a man is not "his own" then I cannot believe that he has any say in the matter once he is redeemed by the precious blood of the Lamb:

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor.6:19-20).

Once a person believes the gospel he is no longer his own because he is bought by God with the precious blood of Christ. Since that price is so costly God will not lose that which He purchased.

Slaves were in this predicament and yet they could choose to rebel against their masters. Does this help you understand?

[JerryShugart]

Not religious robots, but we do not sin after the resurrection and we are truly born again.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

You misunderstand the verse which you quote. Let us look at the following verse to get a better understandin about what John is saying:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (1 Jn.3:9).

"God's seed" is God's nature, given to all believers:

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust" (1 Pet.1:4).

A child partakes on the nature of his Parents. Anyone "born of God" is a person whose true, inward nature is inherently sinless. Sin can never spring from what a Christian truly is according to his regenerate nature. That is why Paul says that it is not him who actually commits sins:

"If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" (Ro.7:16-17).

[ProjectPeter]

Yes, but then what do we do with the verses like 1 John 5:11 which state in no uncertain terms that Christians have already been given eternal life?

I believe that in the present age the one who has received the salvation of the soul already possess eternal life.

But the words at Mark 10:30 are speaking about the "body" and it will not be until the saint is resurrected in the coming age when he will receive a body that can be described as eternal.

Perhaps you have an explanation that reconciles 1 John 5:11 and Mark 10:30?

Thanks!

Sure... we have eternal life by faith. That explains not only 1 John 5... Romans, Ephesians, Corinthians, Colossians, Galatians, Peter, Jude, James... all are explained. None of us have eternal life in totality though... that is yet to come and it is conditional that we hold fast this faith until the end.

[John 8:32]

You misunderstand the verse which you quote. Let us look at the following verse to get a better understandin about what John is saying:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" (1 Jn.3:9).

"God's seed" is God's nature, given to all believers:

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust" (1 Pet.1:4).

A child partakes on the nature of his Parents. Anyone "born of God" is a person whose true, inward nature is inherently sinless. Sin can never spring from what a Christian truly is according to his regenerate nature. That is why Paul says that it is not him who actually commits sins:

"If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me" (Ro.7:16-17).

You misunderstand the difference between being begotten (the condition a human is in when given the Holy Spirit) and being born again (What happens at the resurrection when we are born by a resurrection of the dead).

[JerryShugart]

Slaves were in this predicament and yet they could choose to rebel against their masters. Does this help you understand?

It is not a question of whether or not a slave can rebel against his master but instead whether or not the owner will allow his slave to gain his freedom from him. And the Lord makes it plain that all of those who have been given eternal life "shall never perish." The one who is "bought with a price" is preserved in Jesus Christ, the place of eternal life.

[JerryShugart]

You misunderstand the difference between being begotten (the condition a human is in when given the Holy Spirit) and being born again (What happens at the resurrection when we are born by a resurrection of the dead).

No, a person is not "born again" when he is resurrected from the dead. Here Peter tells the Christian that they have been "born again" and those to whom he addressed those words had not yet been resurrected from the dead because they had not yet died:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Pet.1:23).

Here the Greek word anagennaō is translated "being born again" is in the "present" tense so it is not referring to something that will only happen in the future.

[John 8:32]

It is not a question of whether or not a slave can rebel against his master but instead whether or not the owner will allow his slave to gain his freedom from him. And the Lord makes it plain that all of those who have been given eternal life "shall never perish." The one who is "bought with a price" is preserved in Jesus Christ, the place of eternal life.

Nope. OSAS is not scriptural at all...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

[JerryShugart]

None of us have eternal life in totality though... that is yet to come and it is conditional that we hold fast this faith until the end.

Of course we have it totally. There is no such thing as only having a portion or only a part of eternal life. You either have it or you do not. And the Christian is told that they have already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and the Lord Jesus says that all to whom He has given eternal life "shall never perish" (Jn.10:28).

[david]

Verses that seem to imply that eternal life comes later, and not now:


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name’s sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29
Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. But many who are first will be last, and the last first.” Mark 10:29-31
And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.” Luke 18:29-30
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4:14
Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together. John 4:36
Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” John 6:27
Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12:25
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; Romans 2:6-7
so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:21
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. Romans 6:22
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Galatians 6:8
But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life. 1 Timothy 1:16
Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 1 Timothy 6:12
in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began Titus 1:2
so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7 Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? Romans 8:24
And this is the promise that he made to us— eternal life. 1 John 2:25
keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. Jude 1:21



John 4:36 says that people "gather fruit" and work for eternal life. This "work" is actually believing (John 3:15). But believing, according to Jesus, is not a work of man, but of God (“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” John 6:29 ). Believing by itself is the good work, and believing is not only hearing the Word of God but doing it (James 2:17). Therefore, when we both hear the word and do it, it is not us doing it, it is God doing it, so that no one can boast in their own efforts of believing. If you say, "I have believed on my own accord," then you are saying you did all the work to gain eternal life. This is not true because it says we have been saved not as a result of our own works, that no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

[JerryShugart]

Nope. OSAS is not scriptural at all...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Those who deny the eternal security of the believers who received the epistle to the Hebrews say that these verses are teaching that if these believers fall away then they cannot be saved because it is "impossible" to renew them unto repentance.

The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "repentance" is "to have a change of mind". It does not always refer to "repentance toward God", and the only other time that the word is used in Hebrews it simply means "a change of mind" (Heb.12:17).

So in verse six the thought is that if they should fall away from some truth then it would not be possible to make them change their mind in regard to that truth. And it is not difficult to see what truth they were ignoring-"they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh."

Despite the teaching that they were no longer under the law they were keeping the law and offering sacrifices that were required under the law and therefore they were crucifying the Son of God afresh.

This verse is not in regard to "repentance torward God", or else we must believe that it is impossible for them to have a change of mind in regard to believing in God. The Lord would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth so therefore He would never say that it is impossible for anyone to have a change of mind torward Him. The door is always open, even for the worst of men.

There is nothing in these verses that even hints that those weho have received eternal life can perish.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The "sin" spoken of is the same thing that is referred to in the sixth chapter, a "drawing back" to Judaism, a religion that was fulfilled in Christ. The author of Hebrews compares this "state of sin" to the sins of presumption, which lay outside the sacrifical provisions of the law ( "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin):

"But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him" (Num.15:30,31).

Once a Jew sinned presumptously, he was cut off from among the people and that means they could no longer offer sacrifices for their sins. And those in Hebrews who were offering sacrifices were sinning presumptously by ignoring the fact that the law was done away for all who believed the gospel.

However, the punishment for this kind of sin was only "temporal". Today that same type of punishment is in effect for those who are members of the Body of Christ. If a Christian continues to sin willfully and that sinning brings reproach to the church the Lord will put them to sleep:

"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep" (1Cor.11:29,30).

This is in regard to being chastened by the Lord:

"But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:32).

We can see those those who were sinning wifully were sanctified by the blood (Heb.10:29) and here is what is said in the same chapter about those who are so sanctified:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).

According to you a person who is sanctified by the blood can perish and become imperfect but we read here that those sanctified by the death of the Lord Jesus have been perfected forever. How do you explain that?

And why should anyone believe that a person who has already received eternal life can perish despite the fact that the Lord and Savior Himself says that "they shall never perish"?

[ProjectPeter]

Of course we have it totally. There is no such thing as only having a portion or only a part of eternal life. You either have it or you do not. And the Christian is told that they have already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and the Lord Jesus says that all to whom He has given eternal life "shall never perish" (Jn.10:28).

Just one of many passages that show that you are a wee bit incorrect here...

Romans 8:23 *And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
24 *For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one also hope for what he sees?
25 *But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

It hasn't happened just yet... watch putting the cart before the horse. Breeds complacency.

[david]

Nope. OSAS is not scriptural at all...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Your interpretation of that passage would contradict these statements below:


This is the promise that he made to us— eternal life. 1 John 2:25
When God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. Hebrews 6:17-18

[JerryShugart]

Just one of many passages that show that you are a wee bit incorrect here...

Romans 8:23 *And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
24 *For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one also hope for what he sees?
25 *But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

I have already addressed the point which you are making. These verses which you quote are in regard to receiving an eternal or immortal body. On the other hand we can read that we have already received the end or result of our faith which is the "salvation of the soul" (1 Pet.1:9).

So in regard to our inner man we have indeed received a complete life that is eternal. And those who have received this eternal life through faith "shall never perish."

[david]

I have already addressed the point which you are making. These verses which you quote are in regard to receiving an eternal or immortal body. On the other hand we can read that we have already received the end or result of our faith which is the "salvation of the soul" (1 Pet.1:9).

So in regard to our inner man we have indeed received a complete life that is eternal. And those who have received this eternal life through faith "shall never perish."

In my opinion because it says that faith has an "end," that means we haven't received the salvation of our souls yet. Faith has a purpose: it is to reach the hope of salvation. We are still living by faith (Hebrews 10:38), but once we reach the end of our faith, the salvation of our souls, we no longer need faith anymore. What is faith still useful for if we received the hope that we used faith to reach? It becomes useless, because we no longer need it then.

Note that I'm not saying we can lose the hope of salvation. That cannot be lost forever (1 John 2:25).