What is the "Eternal Life" Which is in the Son?

[percho]

I will attempt to answer the OP. What is the "Eternal Life" Which is in the Son?

Speaking as a prophet of God Jesus said this, which is the answer. John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

A long, long time ago God made a promise for the one who would be begotten by God and would die. Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The first man Adam was the figure (type) of him that was to come. Adam was made a living soul, the figure.

How was the Son to receive this life in himself? Eternal Life. John 5:21 For as the Father raises up the dead, and quickeneth (gives life). 1 Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; (figure of him to come) the last Adam a quickening spirit. (Literally, into spirit making alive) When? Verse 46 Howbeit that not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; (Christ the living soul) and afterward (after the resurrection) that which is spiritual. It is spoken of as a birth term. Acts 13:33 Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten (born) thee. Col. 1:18 the firstborn from the dead;

Jesus is the only one born of woman who has received this life within himself that comes by resurrection, being born from the dead, that is the reason this life is presently in his Son for presently he is the only one who has been born, resurrected with it and by we having the Holy Spirit we have Christ in us the hope of glory, eternal life the gift of God.

[Mark F]

Hello Mark F,

The answer to this last question would take a great deal of time (for there is much scripture to discuss; we can discuss the first question in another post). I think the problem is not that you haven't seen these scriptures, but rather that you have been mislead concerning their interpretation, perhaps for a very long time. I don't think it will be easy to get you out of your "comfort zone" so that you can reexamine these from a different perspective. Your understanding of that parable in Matthew 18 tells me how much of an uphill battle this might be. You know, dumping a lot of passages would probably not be the best way to go, so let's look at just one for now.

You had mentioned a verse from 1st Corinthians before, so let me bring up an entire passage from that book: 1st Cor. 9:23 – 10:15. I will insert some questions and comments as I go. I hope you can see Paul's point here: it is that a true believe can “blow it” if he does not remain faithful.

Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. (Why would Paul have to continue to do anything to partake of the gospel?) Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. (Why is this necessary? You mean I can run in such a way as to not obtain it?) And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. (Why would Paul even speak of the possibility of becoming disqualified from the gospel if such were not possible?)

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. (You know, this last sentence says it all. The example from the Exodus was meant to be very sobering. According to this example, it is possible to be delivered from Egypt (delivered from sin), baptized into Christ, and to be a partaker of Christ, yet to fail to receive the ultimate promise because of subsequent unfaithfulness and disbelief.)

No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say. (Don't let Paul's warning here fall on deaf ears.)

Not even going there. That's not a teaching on losing your salvation. We are too far apart to work this out. I digress.

One thing according to your thinking and the Scripture you used.

Moses was disqualified and did not receive the prize, so I suppose you think he lost his salvation right?

[Mark F]

(begin my opinion)
No one has eternal life yet until they believe totally. To believe totally means to never stop believing again. This accords with the scripture, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36 " Eternal means forever. There are people who believed and then stopped believing (which by the way isn't full belief). For example, "And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away." Luke 8:13 This verse shows that there can be some who "believe" and then stop believing. This kind of belief does not get you eternal life, because he who believes (as in sustained belief) has eternal life. You don't have eternal life until you never stop believing. Key word here is "eternal."

So the one who is truly born of God is the one who doesn't stop believing. "No one born of God commits sin, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot sin because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9" If you sin even once, you have stopped believing. If you coveted, there you are unbelieving. No one who sins believes, and no one who believes sins (Galatians 5:16).

Now, does this mean we can go to hell for eternity even after initially "believing?" No, because all God's called ones are promised eternal life (1 John 2:25). Even though they are promised eternal life, they cannot get it until they finally stop sinning completely. Only then can they receive the promised eternal life. Those who don't stop sinning by the time of the day of Jesus' coming will end up in hell for 1000 years, for those who are called but did not cease sinning (Mark 9:43, Revelation 20:5).

I guess I'm outta luck then.......no matter how hard I try I always end up messin' up.

[david]

I guess I'm outta luck then.......no matter how hard I try I always end up messin' up.

With faith everything is possible:
"truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.” Matthew 17:20

Virgins in Revelation did it already:
"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. Revelation 14:4-5 "

[Bandit]

Not even going there. That's not a teaching on losing your salvation. We are too far apart to work this out. I digress.

One thing according to your thinking and the Scripture you used.

Moses was disqualified and did not receive the prize, so I suppose you think he lost his salvation right?

Mark F, now you are arguing with Paul in your last statement about Moses. And you refused to even attempt to address 1st Cor. 9:23 - 10:15. Paul uses those who became idolators or sexually immoral during the Exodus as his examples, but you want to use Moses as yours. Moses' was not an idolator or sexually immoral. Please try to be as Paul and note the difference. You are refusing to see Paul's point.

[Desperaux]

(begin my opinion)
No one has eternal life yet until they believe totally.

I need scriptural proof for that one.

Now, does this mean we can go to hell for eternity even after initially "believing?" No, because all God's called ones are promised eternal life (1 John 2:25). Even though they are promised eternal life, they cannot get it until they finally stop sinning completely. Only then can they receive the promised eternal life.

This is absolutely unfounded, biblically. Where is Grace? You are promoting the gospel of good works based on performance which puts the cross of Christ to shame.

Those who don't stop sinning by the time of the day of Jesus' coming will end up in hell for 1000 years, for those who are called but did not cease sinning (Mark 9:43, Revelation 20:5).

No one goes to hell for only 1000 years. The Lake of Fire is the destination fo those judged by God to be there. No one is coming out. What bible are you reading?

[JerryShugart]

Jesus is the only one born of woman who has received this life within himself that comes by resurrection, being born from the dead, that is the reason this life is presently in his Son for presently he is the only one who has been born, resurrected with it and by we having the Holy Spirit we have Christ in us the hope of glory, eternal life the gift of God.

The ord Jesus did not receive eternal life because He is wiythout beginning or end.

And John makes it plain that Christians have already received this eternal life:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).

This eternal life comes to the Christian prior to the resurrection of their bodies. And the following verse speaks of when one receives this eternal life which is in the Son:

"When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together (syzōopoieō) with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions" (Col.2:12-13).

Here the Greek word syzōopoieō is translated "made you alive together."

The Greek word syzōopoieō is made up of two words, zōopoieō and syn.

The word zōopoieō means to "make alive, give life" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

The word syn means "with, besides, accompany...a primary preposition denoting union" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when those dead in sin are regeneratated they are made alive "in union" with Christ. And the only "life" in Christ is eternal life and all believers receive that life the second that they believe the gospel.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).

[episkopos]

Does the Lord Jesus not say that those to whom He gives eternal life "shall never persisn"?

Your view is a denial of thosde plain words, and those words here:

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:15-16).

We can understand that at the very moment one believes he already has "eternal life" and will not be judged, as witnessed by the words of the Lord Jesus here:

“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).



Of course we receive the forgiveness of sins when we believe:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).

After that we can see that the Lord will not impute sins to those who have believed, as witnessed by Paul's words here:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).

It is easy to make a case from the one side of the testimony of the bible. But we must look at the WHOLE counsel of God...

Jas 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

G2632
κατακρίνω
katakrinō
kat-ak-ree'-no
From G2596 and G2919; to judge against, that is, sentence: - condemn, damn.


Here we have a warning that a brother could still be condemned! This must be put into the balance with..."there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...

[Bandit]

...
The promise is in regard to those to whom He has given eternal life. Do you deny that?

Hello Jerry,

The promise in John 10:28 is with respect to those who are actively hearing and following, (and are subsequently being actively known by Christ). You seem to want to avoid the human aspect of the saving relationship. How can those who no longer believe (by listening and following) be classified as sheep? (And, you know, you still seem to want to reduce all of biblical revelation to those isolated verses which seem to support the "once Saved Always Saved" message. But what about the rest of the bible?)

And do you deny that the Christian is told that they have already received eternal life?

You know, Jerry, we can talk all day about what having eternal life really means. You would seem to believe that it is something that exists apart from the giver, and which can't be rejected by the receiver. But there is a lot of scripture which needs to be considered which doesn't line up with a "I can never loose it" mentality.

We know that "eternal life" is a "gift":

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Ro.6:23).

Yes, Jerry, we all know that eternal life is a gift, but what is this 'eternal life', and in what sense is it given?

We also know that God's "gifts" are irrevocable"

"God's gifts and his call are irrevocable" (Ro.11:29).

Yes, Jerry, we have all read this verse before, but what is its meaning? (You seem to think it supports your postion, but I claim it does not.) And would you even know what my understanding is? (Other than it is not yours?)

[Bandit]

Does the Lord Jesus not say that those to whom He gives eternal life "shall never persisn"?

Your view is a denial of thosde plain words ...

Hello Jerry,

I don't think my view is a denial of His words, just a denial of your interpretation of His words. As I have said, Jesus defines those He is giving (active sense) eternal life to as those who are listening and following Him (again, in an active sense). What you miss is the connection between an active ongoing faith and an active ongoing salvation.

[JerryShugart]

It is easy to make a case from the one side of the testimony of the bible. But we must look at the WHOLE counsel of God...

Here we have a warning that a brother could still be condemned! This must be put into the balance with..."there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...

You make an assumption that if a Christian is "condemned" then he loses his salvation. However, here Paul speaks of someone who has been condemned:

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Cor.5:5).

You confuse losing salvation with the fact that the Lord will chasten His children:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).

[Diggindeeper]

Jerry, it is you who makes the assumptions. You assume that once a person is a believer, he is thus always saved. But the Bible is filled with far too many IFs to assume that.

That is why we are told in Phil 2:12 that we are to 'work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.' We are not puppets or robots, made to endure, continue, run the race, fight the good fight....even to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling!

You see, the devils also believe. And tremble! That is something to consider!

[Bandit]

You make an assumption that if a Christian is "condemned" then he loses his salvation. However, here Paul speaks of someone who has been condemned:

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Cor.5:5).

You confuse losing salvation with the fact that the Lord will chasten His children:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).

Hello Jerry,

The passage in 1st Cor. says "may be saved". This means that such salvation may be possible, but it does not guarantee it. You are confusing the reception of chastening with the potential benefit of being chastening. Receiving a spanking is not at all the same as benefiting from that spanking. Receiving a spanking only makes the benefit possible, but the benefitting is still up to the one being spanked.

[JerryShugart]

The promise in John 10:28 is with respect to those who are actively hearing and following, (and are subsequently being actively known by Christ). You seem to want to avoid the human aspect of the saving relationship. How can those who no longer believe (by listening and following) be classified as sheep?

Why do you just ignore the things I tell you. Why did you not respond to what I said to you earlier about His sheep?

You fail to understand the analogy of the Good Shepherd. The sheep do not continuously stay within the fold but often get lost. And the Good Shepherd always finds them. Have you not read the following?:

"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake...Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever" (Ps.23:1,2,3,6).

You make the Lord out to be a bad Shepherd who would lose some of His sheep.

(And, you know, you still seem to want to reduce all of biblical revelation to those isolated verses which seem to support the "once Saved Always Saved" message. But what about the rest of the bible?)

So we cannot take the words of the Lord Jesus in the following verse literally becauise you consider that verse an "isolated" verse?

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

Can we not take the following words literally in these isolated verses?:

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:15-16).

Can we not take the words of the Lord Jesus literally because it is an isolated verse?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

You know, Jerry, we can talk all day about what having eternal life really means. You would seem to believe that it is something that exists apart from the giver, and which can't be rejected by the receiver. But there is a lot of scripture which needs to be considered which doesn't line up with a "I can never loose it" mentality.

It is not difficult to understand that at the moment a person believes the gospel he receives eternal life, and that life "is in the Son":

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).

Our life is in the Lord Jesus Christ and we will always be in the Son because we are "preserved" in Jesus Christ:

"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called" (Jude 1).

Yes, Jerry, we have all read this verse before, but what is its meaning? (You seem to think it supports your postion, but I claim it does not.) And would you even know what my understanding is? (Other than it is not yours?)

The word "irrevocable" means "not to be revoked" and the word "revoke" means "to take back or withdraw" (The American College Dictionary).

So when the verses says that the gifts of God are irrevocable the meaning is that God's gift of eternal life will not be withdrawn or taken back.

[Bandit]

Why do you just ignore the things I tell you. Why did you not respond to what I said to you earlier about His sheep? ...

Jerry, please do not confuse my refusal to hear your words with my hearing of His words. I do not think you and Jesus are saying the same thing. Him I listen to.

Can we not take the words of the Lord Jesus literally because it is an isolated verse?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

What we cannot take here is your claim as to what His words mean. His meaning here must be seen as a part of His total message (and that of His apostles). I claim your take on His words here are in disagreement with much that is said elsewhere (besides the fact that there is meaning even here which you do not address).

The word "irrevocable" means "not to be revoked" and the word "revoke" means "to take back or withdraw" (The American College Dictionary).

So when the verses says that the gifts of God are irrevocable the meaning is that God's gift of eternal life will not be withdrawn or taken back.

What you have done here is to take words meant in a corporate sense, and have misapplied them in an individual sense. You string disjoint passages together without thought or consideration of separate context. There is a lot of stuff that needs to be worked through here.