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Thread: Question about being born again

  1. #1
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    Question about being born again

    I am asking this here because of all the sites I have seen you people seem the most knowledgeable. It is a question I have had for years, yet still have not really found the answer, except what I feel in my heart. This is going to get really complicated, but I think it has to. This text is from KJV John.

    13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
    14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    My first question leads to my second question but I have to put this here to be able to actually ask my question, I understand it is complex but I think you can handle it; to me 13 and 17 says that Jesus was first born of spirit (existed in heaven) then was born of water (was born on Earth) The 18 is my personal belief that we must believe in Jesus ourselves before things are proven to us. Which to me makes Jesus way more cool than I have ever imagined, and that is allot already. Is my thought on this wrong that Jesus was born like an Angel and then born on Earth?

    My second question leads to my ultimate question:

    4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Is Jesus telling us that to be born of water is that your born here on Earth, and born of spirit means that you have died?

    6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Truly poetic, more poetic than the poet living under my skin will ever be. Jesus seems to be literally saying that the winds are planned and even though we will never know where they go, they are there. Science cannot explain more than 3 dimensions so until we die we must understand, as the winds we do not and never will know where we go.

    9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
    10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

    I am bringing to the table that accepting Jesus into our hearts is imperative, to me only logical because he did exist, and we will never be with our creator unless Jesus shows us the way, but sometimes I think that his own words are to all of us, even though Jesus says it to Nicodemus I think he is telling all of us, to die is to be born again, this is the easy stuff and you are not getting it, how can you understand any of the difficult stuff – to paraphrase.

    This last part leads to my actual question. Is Jesus saying that things are so complex then when we die we are going to be as if we are born again, like babies, in need of Jesus to literally raise us in a place beyond this one? Is accepting Jesus into our hearts an understanding of this or has it been lost?

    To me accepting Jesus into my heart meant to do the right thing even when no one was looking. But I see all the time that people think that one day they can wake up repent and even though they have done evil things (not just sin which we all do) and it is all better. No matter what the answer I think I will remain on my path of doing the right thing as much as I possibly can, but I do wonder.

    Did Jesus literally suffer and die for us to be any way we want and then fall onto the conveyor belt and get hauled into Heaven because we go to church every week or is he saying that we will be born again and when we will surrender ourselves to him as a newborn child to their parents he will decide if we are shown the way to our creator based upon how we live our life?

  2. #2
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Thomasmind,

    I can only give what has been given to me. There will be other answers that will be presented that are good since I will never fully grasp His gospel, but I look forward to the eternity in which He will continue to reveal it to me. And what a glorious eternity that will be.

    To answer your first question I will use Colossions 1:15-20
    15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

    Jesus was not created, but he is the creator and sustainer of all things. When it is said he is the firstborn, that is representative of his position among all things.


    To answer the second question:
    1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
    So one must be born of the Spirit. There has to be a spiritual transformation which can only be done by the Holy Spirit.

    I think Nicodemus was in this situation
    1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

    We come into this worth through physical birth and have a serious problem as David points out here
    Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity and in sin did my mother conceive me."
    Something has to happen here since we are separated from God.

    Ezekiel mentions this transformation
    Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26
    "I will give them a new heart and put a new spirit within them; I will take the stony heart out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh."

    So we must become a new creation
    2 Corinthians 5:17
    "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come"
    a new birth that is the work of the Spirit

    Your third question
    Did Jesus literally suffer and die for us to be any way we want and then fall onto the conveyor belt and get hauled into Heaven because we go to church every week or is he saying that we will be born again and when we will surrender ourselves to him as a newborn child to their parents he will decide if we are shown the way to our creator based upon how we live our life?
    God will do the work, He will change us.
    Romans 8:29
    "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

    Everything God does is for Himself and His glory. He delights in our rejoicing in Him. He is the highest of all things, and most loving thing He does for us is to show us how great He is and that is where our joy is complete. Belief in Christ is putting your trust in the fact that he has saved you from God and has made you righteous before a holy God. God wants us to be fruitful and do His work, but we can bring nothing to Him that will save us. Only the work of Christ and his righteousness imputed to us will save us. He has done the work and he will finish a good work in those who love Him. Those who are born again will desire this, and seek Him.

  3. #3
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomasmind View Post
    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    God's unique Son is the only human conceived by union with God's Spirit
    Is my thought on this wrong that Jesus was born like an Angel and then born on Earth?
    John 1:1 (speaking of Jesus) In the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made through Him (including angels)and without Him nothing was made that was made . . .
    5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    Is Jesus telling us that to be born of water is that your born here on Earth, and born of spirit means that you have died?
    That you have died to 'Self' and submittted your life to Jesus Christ..


    8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    I believe the Lord is saying that everyone 'born of the Spirit' will be controlled by the Spirit not by human considerations or ability

    Is Jesus saying that things are so complex then when we die we are going to be as if we are born again?
    to Self (not die physically)
    Did Jesus literally suffer and die for us to be any way we want and then fall onto the conveyor belt and get hauled into Heaven because we go to church every week NO or is he saying that we will be born again and when we will surrender ourselves to him as a newborn child to their parents Yes he will decide if we are shown the way to our creator based upon how we live our life? No. Salvation is a Gift, no one is worthy of, but is given to us when we submit our lives to Jesus; and continues to be given to us as we continue to submit to Him.
    .................................................. ..........

  4. #4
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Born again can be understood on 2 levels.

    Remember the story...a Christmas Carol?...the one where Scrooge changes into a "new" man. Scrooge repented and did what was right...this is what the OT is all about. salvation by doing what is right...righteousness. This recognizes the bad behaviour and rectifies it by correcting those errors with good deeds.

    Now many people would say that this is to be born again. There is an aspect of this that is true. the prodigal son came to his senses too and repented.

    The other level of being born again, is the response of God.....the giving of a new life...the acceptance of the repentance and the response of the giving of the Holy Spirit.

    So whereas the first level is on a righteousness level, the 2nd is on a holiness level...by grace. The first involves forgiveness, and the second involves empowering to be as Jesus in this world.


    Both levels are necessary to fulfill the full plan of God (born from above). But even the first level will save you. God is merciful.

  5. #5
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Now the full born again experience can only be maintained (at that level of intimacy with God) by forsaking all in order to retain the level of holiness required to cleave to God.

    It reminds me of stories of privateers (pirates) who in order to outrun the navy ships sent out to arrest them, needed to throw everything overboard in order to be able to outsail their pursuers and get away. So the cannon (defenses) were heaved over the side...etc...

    Unless we forsake ALL things we cannot remain long in the presence of the Lord. The world will catch up to us!!!!

    Then we are only left with the humility of righteousness and the doing what is right in our own strength.

    Of course if we pretend to be holy when we are not then we lose EVEN the benefits of a temporal righteousness.

  6. #6
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomasmind View Post
    I am asking this here because of all the sites I have seen you people seem the most knowledgeable. It is a question I have had for years, yet still have not really found the answer, except what I feel in my heart. This is going to get really complicated, but I think it has to. This text is from KJV John.

    13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
    14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    My first question leads to my second question but I have to put this here to be able to actually ask my question, I understand it is complex but I think you can handle it; to me 13 and 17 says that Jesus was first born of spirit (existed in heaven) then was born of water (was born on Earth) The 18 is my personal belief that we must believe in Jesus ourselves before things are proven to us. Which to me makes Jesus way more cool than I have ever imagined, and that is allot already. Is my thought on this wrong that Jesus was born like an Angel and then born on Earth?

    My second question leads to my ultimate question:

    4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Is Jesus telling us that to be born of water is that your born here on Earth, and born of spirit means that you have died?

    6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Truly poetic, more poetic than the poet living under my skin will ever be. Jesus seems to be literally saying that the winds are planned and even though we will never know where they go, they are there. Science cannot explain more than 3 dimensions so until we die we must understand, as the winds we do not and never will know where we go.

    9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
    10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

    I am bringing to the table that accepting Jesus into our hearts is imperative, to me only logical because he did exist, and we will never be with our creator unless Jesus shows us the way, but sometimes I think that his own words are to all of us, even though Jesus says it to Nicodemus I think he is telling all of us, to die is to be born again, this is the easy stuff and you are not getting it, how can you understand any of the difficult stuff – to paraphrase.

    This last part leads to my actual question. Is Jesus saying that things are so complex then when we die we are going to be as if we are born again, like babies, in need of Jesus to literally raise us in a place beyond this one? Is accepting Jesus into our hearts an understanding of this or has it been lost?

    To me accepting Jesus into my heart meant to do the right thing even when no one was looking. But I see all the time that people think that one day they can wake up repent and even though they have done evil things (not just sin which we all do) and it is all better. No matter what the answer I think I will remain on my path of doing the right thing as much as I possibly can, but I do wonder.

    Did Jesus literally suffer and die for us to be any way we want and then fall onto the conveyor belt and get hauled into Heaven because we go to church every week or is he saying that we will be born again and when we will surrender ourselves to him as a newborn child to their parents he will decide if we are shown the way to our creator based upon how we live our life?
    A few questions for clarification.

    Are you 1) not 'saved' yet and ask to understand? Or 2) Questioning if what you believe that it makes you saved?

    Or asked a different way: Are you asking as a believer or an unbeliever.
    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
    ... there are few who find it."


    -----------------------------------------------

    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

    The New American Standard Bible®,
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis


  7. #7

    Re: Question about being born again.

    4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Is Jesus telling us that to be born of water is that your born here on Earth, and born of spirit means that you have died?


    being born of water is being born in this flesh, being born of the spirit is when the Holy Spirit comes inside and God sets up his abode in you. That is the second birth the spiritual one which is the hidden man of the heart. That is when you become part of one "body" with the saints and Christ and God

    Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    that above is what you are born again into and how you all become one, you are all one because the Holy Spirit flows through you all. you are grafted in.

  8. #8
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
    A few questions for clarification.

    Are you 1) not 'saved' yet and ask to understand? Or 2) Questioning if what you believe that it makes you saved?

    Or asked a different way: Are you asking as a believer or an unbeliever.
    This type of reasoning is what brings the confusion in the first place.

  9. #9

    Re: Question about being born again.

    Being born of God may be different than being a son of God. Let us compare two passages. In Psalms 82 it describes "sons of God":
    "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: 'How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.' They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, 'You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.' Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations! Psalm 82:1-8 "

    Compare it with being "born of God:" "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9 "

    We know that everyone born of God does not sin. Do the "sons of the Most High" in Psalm 82 sin? To me, they do. This I think proves that being "sons of God" is different from being "born of God." Being born of God may mean you have become God in perfection but being a son of God can mean you are still under God's guardianship and is not fully and essentially part of his "family" yet.

    Furthermore, note that these two verses added together mean that everyone who is born of God must be absolutely pure:
    "Everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous ( that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Ephesians 5:5"
    “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. John 3:5 "

    Since no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they were pure, then this means that "being born of water and the Spirit" must include becoming pure.

    It may not be that all of us are born of water and the Spirit now, even though we confess that Jesus is Lord and that he has been raised from the dead. Not all of us who say so are pure. Only those who are pure can enter the kingdom of God; hence, this means that those who are born of God are both pure and sinless.

  10. #10
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Quote Originally Posted by thomasmind View Post
    I am asking this here because of all the sites I have seen you people seem the most knowledgeable. It is a question I have had for years, yet still have not really found the answer, except what I feel in my heart. This is going to get really complicated, but I think it has to.
    After reading through your post I definitely think you are making this a lot more complicated than it actually is.

    This text is from KJV John.

    13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
    14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    My first question leads to my second question but I have to put this here to be able to actually ask my question, I understand it is complex but I think you can handle it; to me 13 and 17 says that Jesus was first born of spirit (existed in heaven) then was born of water (was born on Earth) The 18 is my personal belief that we must believe in Jesus ourselves before things are proven to us. Which to me makes Jesus way more cool than I have ever imagined, and that is allot already. Is my thought on this wrong that Jesus was born like an Angel and then born on Earth?
    Yes, you are wrong. Scripture does not teach that Jesus was created. Instead, it teaches that He created all things (John 1:1-3, Col 1:12-17).

    My second question leads to my ultimate question:

    4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Is Jesus telling us that to be born of water is that your born here on Earth, and born of spirit means that you have died?
    No. I believe being born of water relates to being born of flesh (compare verse 5 to verse 6) but to be born of the Spirit means that the Holy Spirit has come to dwell within you and has given you new spiritual life in Christ.

    This last part leads to my actual question. Is Jesus saying that things are so complex then when we die we are going to be as if we are born again, like babies, in need of Jesus to literally raise us in a place beyond this one?
    No. Being born again has nothing to do with anything physical. That's why it's called being born of the Spirit. It's entirely a spiritual birth and not physical at all.

    To me accepting Jesus into my heart meant to do the right thing even when no one was looking. But I see all the time that people think that one day they can wake up repent and even though they have done evil things (not just sin which we all do) and it is all better. No matter what the answer I think I will remain on my path of doing the right thing as much as I possibly can, but I do wonder.
    We are not saved by our own righteousness, friend. In order to be saved and born again you must put your faith in Christ as your Lord and Savior and acknowledge that you are a sinner in need of forgiveness by way of His shed blood and believe that He died and rose again. Put your trust in Him for salvation, not in yourself. You can't possibly be good enough and do the right thing enough to save yourself. Even one sin separates you from having a relationship with God so don't try to earn your own salvation by being a good person. It doesn't work that way.

    Did Jesus literally suffer and die for us to be any way we want and then fall onto the conveyor belt and get hauled into Heaven because we go to church every week or is he saying that we will be born again and when we will surrender ourselves to him as a newborn child to their parents he will decide if we are shown the way to our creator based upon how we live our life?
    If you surrender yourself to Him that means you are expressing the desire to follow Him and obey Him. Once you are saved and have the Spirit dwelling in you then the Holy Spirit can help you to be who God wants you to be. But that's the key. Submit to Christ and to the Spirit and don't try to earn salvation through your own righteousness. If you do that you will fail because we all fall short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23).

  11. #11

    Re: Question about being born again.

    Let me throw in a couple of related or unrelated thoughts. Related IMO.

    Matt 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7 may be unrelated.

    John 16:19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

    I assume we agree he is speaking here of dying , they wont see him and being resurrected, they will see him.

    20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. -----How?
    21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembers no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. 22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

    Dose verses 21 and 22 compare the resurrection of Jesus as a birth that brings joy.

    Was Jesus born again?

  12. #12
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    Being born again is not physical but spiritual. We are already dead in tresspass and sin (spiritual death) although we are alive physically. To be born again is to ask Christ to forgive us our sin and to receive the merits of His sacrifice upon the cross of Calvary. Titus 3:5 Speaks directly to the new birth as the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. We are saved by grace through faith.

    For the cause of Christ
    Roger

  13. #13

    Re: Question about being born again.

    To be born again is to receive spiritual life , and therefore able to comprehend and fellowship with God.

    "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." Jn 4:23

    "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." Jn 4:24

  14. #14
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    Re: Question about being born again.

    I am asking this here because of all the sites I have seen you people seem the most knowledgeable. It is a question I have had for years, yet still have not really found the answer, except what I feel in my heart. This is going to get really complicated, but I think it has to. This text is from KJV John.

    13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
    14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    My first question leads to my second question but I have to put this here to be able to actually ask my question, I understand it is complex but I think you can handle it; to me 13 and 17 says that Jesus was first born of spirit (existed in heaven) then was born of water (was born on Earth) The 18 is my personal belief that we must believe in Jesus ourselves before things are proven to us. Which to me makes Jesus way more cool than I have ever imagined, and that is allot already. Is my thought on this wrong that Jesus was born like an Angel and then born on Earth?
    Hi Thomasmind,

    Actually Jesus wasn’t born as a angel. Jesus was begotten of the Father, He was “not” and angel. Being born of water is not a reference to being born on earth it is a reference to water baptism.



    My second question leads to my ultimate question:

    4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
    5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Is Jesus telling us that to be born of water is that your born here on Earth, and born of spirit means that you have died?
    Being born of water and Spirit speaks of receiving the Spirit and being water baptized.
    Peter told his hearers, repent and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


    6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Truly poetic, more poetic than the poet living under my skin will ever be. Jesus seems to be literally saying that the winds are planned and even though we will never know where they go, they are there. Science cannot explain more than 3 dimensions so until we die we must understand, as the winds we do not and never will know where we go.
    The point Jesus is making is that you cannot tell where the Spirit comes from or where He goes.

    9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
    10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

    I am bringing to the table that accepting Jesus into our hearts is imperative, to me only logical because he did exist, and we will never be with our creator unless Jesus shows us the way, but sometimes I think that his own words are to all of us, even though Jesus says it to Nicodemus I think he is telling all of us, to die is to be born again, this is the easy stuff and you are not getting it, how can you understand any of the difficult stuff – to paraphrase.
    Jesus tells Nicodemus that he must be born again. Nicodemus was a Jew and as such he believed that he was an heir to the promises made to Abraham. After all he was Abraham’s seed. However, Jesus is telling him that being born of the flesh (seed of Abraham) is not enough, he needs to be born again, this time from above, born of water and of Spirit.
    Peter makes mention of this also in his first epistle.
    Peter is writing to Jewish Christians in this epistle and says,

    1 Peter 1:3(KJV)
    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
    Speaking of the Jewish Christians Peter says God had begotten them again. In the Old testament Israel (the Jews) were called God’s son.

    This last part leads to my actual question. Is Jesus saying that things are so complex then when we die we are going to be as if we are born again, like babies, in need of Jesus to literally raise us in a place beyond this one? Is accepting Jesus into our hearts an understanding of this or has it been lost?

    To me accepting Jesus into my heart meant to do the right thing even when no one was looking. But I see all the time that people think that one day they can wake up repent and even though they have done evil things (not just sin which we all do) and it is all better. No matter what the answer I think I will remain on my path of doing the right thing as much as I possibly can, but I do wonder.

    Did Jesus literally suffer and die for us to be any way we want and then fall onto the conveyor belt and get hauled into Heaven because we go to church every week or is he saying that we will be born again and when we will surrender ourselves to him as a newborn child to their parents he will decide if we are shown the way to our creator based upon how we live our life?
    Actually, the Scriptures don’t speak of asking Jesus into your heart. The proper way to receive Christ is to believe and be baptized. That is how one become a disciple of Christ. Once one becomes a disciple of Christ they are to live according to Jesus’ commands, the bulk of which can be found in the Sermon on the Mount (Mathew 5-7).
    To answer your question, no a person cannot live however they like and expect to receive eternal life. Jesus said, one must abide or remain in Him, if they didn’t they would pruned off of the vine. Jesus is the vine. Read John chapter 14-15 and you will see that one must remain in Christ or they will be lost.

  15. #15

    Re: Question about being born again.

    Quote Originally Posted by percho View Post
    Let me throw in a couple of related or unrelated thoughts. Related IMO.

    Matt 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7 may be unrelated.

    John 16:19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?

    I assume we agree he is speaking here of dying , they wont see him and being resurrected, they will see him.

    20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. -----How?
    21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembers no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. 22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

    Dose verses 21 and 22 compare the resurrection of Jesus as a birth that brings joy.

    Was Jesus born again?
    Yes Christ was born again. The holy spirit descended on him like a dove being the first one to recieve the Holy Spirit after having been baptised in water by John to fullfill scripture.

    Act_26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

    we are dead here on earth, to have the Holy Spirit enter you is Life. have you heard Christ say let the dead bury the dead. they are dead because they have not the Holy Spirit.

    being born again is having the Spirit enter you like it did Christ and his apostles etc

    our flesh is death, we are trapped in it, and we escape by getting life - Christ was the first

    Christ was the templet that we must follow, he was subject to all the same things as us, he just did everything right.

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