I am asking this here because of all the sites I have seen you people seem the most knowledgeable. It is a question I have had for years, yet still have not really found the answer, except what I feel in my heart. This is going to get really complicated, but I think it has to. This text is from KJV John.
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
My first question leads to my second question but I have to put this here to be able to actually ask my question, I understand it is complex but I think you can handle it; to me 13 and 17 says that Jesus was first born of spirit (existed in heaven) then was born of water (was born on Earth) The 18 is my personal belief that we must believe in Jesus ourselves before things are proven to us. Which to me makes Jesus way more cool than I have ever imagined, and that is allot already. Is my thought on this wrong that Jesus was born like an Angel and then born on Earth?
My second question leads to my ultimate question:
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Is Jesus telling us that to be born of water is that your born here on Earth, and born of spirit means that you have died?
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Truly poetic, more poetic than the poet living under my skin will ever be. Jesus seems to be literally saying that the winds are planned and even though we will never know where they go, they are there. Science cannot explain more than 3 dimensions so until we die we must understand, as the winds we do not and never will know where we go.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
I am bringing to the table that accepting Jesus into our hearts is imperative, to me only logical because he did exist, and we will never be with our creator unless Jesus shows us the way, but sometimes I think that his own words are to all of us, even though Jesus says it to Nicodemus I think he is telling all of us, to die is to be born again, this is the easy stuff and you are not getting it, how can you understand any of the difficult stuff – to paraphrase.
This last part leads to my actual question. Is Jesus saying that things are so complex then when we die we are going to be as if we are born again, like babies, in need of Jesus to literally raise us in a place beyond this one? Is accepting Jesus into our hearts an understanding of this or has it been lost?
To me accepting Jesus into my heart meant to do the right thing even when no one was looking. But I see all the time that people think that one day they can wake up repent and even though they have done evil things (not just sin which we all do) and it is all better. No matter what the answer I think I will remain on my path of doing the right thing as much as I possibly can, but I do wonder.
Did Jesus literally suffer and die for us to be any way we want and then fall onto the conveyor belt and get hauled into Heaven because we go to church every week or is he saying that we will be born again and when we will surrender ourselves to him as a newborn child to their parents he will decide if we are shown the way to our creator based upon how we live our life?