Adam and Eve

[jesse]

Otis Lilly,

I have stated what i think. I got to say, i feel bad. My mind works very much like yours and i often find the standard answers leaving much to be desired. After rereading the posts, it kind of seems like everybody is harshing on you myself included although i doubt that is what anyone is trying to do. I don't really want to contribute to that feeling since i certainly know how frustrating it is. And i am not trying to. I guess what i would say is these are the conclusions i have come to. Maybe yours will be different and i am excited to hear what they are! It certainly is kind of a stretch for me to say that the curse or "original sin" led to genetic abnormalities. It is what i think, don't get me wrong. But it is a stretch. Part of the stretch is that we are trying to find things that are unrelated to the context in a very big way! I do it all the time though. I have questions just as you do and the answers are not specifically or nesessarily there. It is really strange how often we want to make the bible say things that it is not talking about. I have found lately that just believing what it is for sure talking about is the best first step on the journey. Hope this helps and i hope we didn't all kill your thought process or your curiosity. I seriously do like hearing your and other peoples opinions, it is why i am on here in the first place!

Jesse

[elisha]

I find it very interesting how God says he made everything and because we sinned the earth was cursed. And we see all sorts of terrible problems come from sin, mutations if you want to call them that or Micro-evolution if you will. It is because of sin that we have all these problems and yet scientists in the wisdom of this age claim that...

1. There is no God. (not all scientists but that is the main idea put forth)
2. The effects of sin are actually where we came from (sin becomes the replacement for God).

They claim we were born from what we know is the effect of sin! WOW! How obvious is that! It seems like satan is reading the bible and just saying the opposite all day long and building doctrines from it. It is no different than reading that God breathed the breath of life into Adam and then turning around and trying to get people to smoke. Of course he wants to attack the most basic things we have!

Well,I have learnt in Christianity that everyone comes from Adam that is evolution.
Of course it is false,not everyone comes from Adam but people who claim all peoples do,are supporting the evolution theory i.e everything from one source.
The evolution theory is what Christians condemn,yet they also use that to make their claim which makes them hypocrites.
Not everyone comes from Adam.We can find that out in the scriptures.

Genesis 4:14 ''Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth'' ''and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.''

Who would find Cain? who was ''everyone''?
Cain was driven off the face of the earth,did he get in a rocket ship and take off to space?

Genesis 4:16-17:16And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did Cain find a wife?Why would he build a city for himself,his wife and his son only?

Genesis 4:25:And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Seth was a replacement for Abel,there are no other children mentioned.

Genesis 5:3:And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Adam in the Hebrew is....

119 'adam aw-dam' to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).

to show blood in the face or to turn rosy are characteristics of a white man.As the hemoglobin only shows under pale skin.(when the blood runs to the face)

The rest of the children of Adam were born in his latter years.

Genesis 5:4:And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Cain in the Hebrew is defined...

7014 Qayin kah'-yin the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe:--Cain, Kenite(-s).

Key words ''and of an Oriental tribe''

Cain went to the orientals and took a wife there.

To say that people were born to Adam and Eve before Seth i.e brothers and sisters is moving the timeline of Adam around from his latter years to before Seth.

It is only logical that if Cain stated ''that every one that findeth me shall slay me''

He would fear his brothers and sisters as well!!!!!!!!!!

Who would want to travel with a cursed man especially a man who will not produce vegetation if tries to grow any(Genesis 4:11-12)

''When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength''

[jesse]

Elisha, you may want to read the earlier posts which shed some light on most of your questions.

And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Genesis 3:20

What does that verse mean? Mother of all living?

Evolution is not saying we all came from one person, evolution is saying we all came from some goo on the bottom of an ocean or some similarly fanciful happenstance.

Also, about Adam being white. The redness of Adam does not have to due with him being flush in the face, but being made of "red clay".

One question is how old was Cain when he left to build a city? And seeing as how only Able had died up unto this point, he may have thought he could live to be thousands of years old. And people would of course be multiplying like rabbits his whole life.

Other than that most of your questions are answered already.

[elisha]

And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Genesis 3:20

What does that verse mean? Mother of all living?

Evolution is not saying we all came from one person, evolution is saying we all came from some goo on the bottom of an ocean or some similarly fanciful happenstance.

The vegetation,sea creatures,birds and animals were living,so were Adam and Eve.

Yes,but Christian evolution is stating that all peoples came from ONE source.That Adam and Eve had the genes to carry all races.Evolution.

With this type of ''Biblical evolution'' you have to consider that a man who can show blood in the face or turn rosy because of the hemoglobin that shows under the pale skin,produced the darker races,the Asiatic races.
There is not mention of other races been born,only as Seth been a replacement for Abel.

Genesis 5:1:This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Genesis 5:3:And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Notice the words likeness(v1) likeness and image(v2)

Are we to say other peoples were not in the likeness and image of Adam?

Read my post 80 and consider what happened to Cain and where he found a wife.

These races were already here.

If you turn to Ezekiel 31.

Ezekiel 31:3-9:3Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

4The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

5Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

6All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

7Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

8The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

9I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

This symbolized the families and nations in Eden who admired the early Assyrian Empire.

[otis lilly]

thank you mr taylor, i will do some more reading tonight with your thoughts in mind.
i am thankfull that there are those like you, who wish to share thier opinions, as it casts light on different ideas of what the truth could be.
i just wish there were not so many lights, from different angles, that there no risk of shadows from the truth. lol

I too am searching for the truth; and I also will stand on the truth when false myths and bad teachings arise. I am quite familiar with all of the human/angel mating teachings, and just realize I am standing against those bad teachings, not against you personally

You have a huge head start on me in our search of the truth, obviously. but as i feel that you are an intelligent person, i can hardly believe you came to your conclusions, in no less a way than i am searching now. and no amount of what another said swayed you. your obvious travel down this road surly helps speed others journey, but it has to be weighed individually, would you not agree, or what weight would it hold.

[otis lilly]

Otis Lilly,

I have stated what i think. I got to say, i feel bad. My mind works very much like yours and i often find the standard answers leaving much to be desired. After rereading the posts, it kind of seems like everybody is harshing on you myself included although i doubt that is what anyone is trying to do. I don't really want to contribute to that feeling since i certainly know how frustrating it is. And i am not trying to. I guess what i would say is these are the conclusions i have come to. Maybe yours will be different and i am excited to hear what they are! It certainly is kind of a stretch for me to say that the curse or "original sin" led to genetic abnormalities. It is what i think, don't get me wrong. But it is a stretch. Part of the stretch is that we are trying to find things that are unrelated to the context in a very big way! I do it all the time though. I have questions just as you do and the answers are not specifically or nesessarily there. It is really strange how often we want to make the bible say things that it is not talking about. I have found lately that just believing what it is for sure talking about is the best first step on the journey. Hope this helps and i hope we didn't all kill your thought process or your curiosity. I seriously do like hearing your and other peoples opinions, it is why i am on here in the first place!

Jesse

yes it is interesting how every single person i talk to, makes thier own assumpions that stretch, yet tell me how literal another place is.
anyone with thin skin should stay among friends that believe the same thing. period. i have only been "scratched" twice since starting here and my new signiture ended that lol. I am uneffected in the "harshing" of me. we are talking about a subject that most hold the most dear to. above all others. when someone has an opinion in stone, they are not searching anymore. they are defending thier beliefs, this is to be understandable. 2000 denominations and every one of them is right to whomever holds it. its the stretches that made them all isnt it.
here is the crazy part, how come i am searching for answers, and to explain it everyone has to show me thier stretch?
I have to accept someone stretch to make an opinion to defend it, i think not, i will continue my search.
It will be a bad day indeed, when i have to accept anyones idea of the truth, while having to make assumptions of its true if.
I get the overall message of the bible, will the details of every peice of it condemn me? no i think not.
I have heard many theories, from cain is satans child, cain was adams child but just cursed, and his children cursed as well, to angels , to its simply the uncursed children of cain, other creations, only seths,

Here is the kicker, I believe, if i threw my hands up right now and said i do not understand at all, the giants of genesis, or the people in nod. it alone would hold no weight against me in my judgement. i want to understand, i believe if i understand it wrong, and spread it, and defend it, it can be held against me. so i will be sure before i have an opinion, that it is based on no assumptions.
i do though apriciate everyone that shares thier opinion, and the willingness to not only share it, but to discuss it at length, to explain why they feel this way.
otis

[divaD]

The rest of the children of Adam were born in his latter years.

Where's your proof of that at in the Bible?

[divaD]

Here is the kicker, I believe, if i threw my hands up right now and said i do not understand at all, the giants of genesis, or the people in nod. it alone would hold no weight against me in my judgement. i want to understand, i believe if i understand it wrong, and spread it, and defend it, it can be held against me. so i will be sure before i have an opinion, that it is based on no assumptions.
i do though apriciate everyone that shares thier opinion, and the willingness to not only share it, but to discuss it at length, to explain why they feel this way.

The main idea is to not contradict other Scriptures. Too many Scriptures are contradicted when one concludes God made more than one man and one woman in the beginning, and not even on the same day as well. If there was a 6th day creation of man, followed by God resting, then God creating humans again, as in Adam and Eve, the conclusion is then nonsensical. There would have been absolutely no reason why God couldn't have done all of that on the same day, if it indeed happened. But for God to create some people, rest, then create some more people, I just don't buy it since there is no logic to it.

[otis lilly]

The main idea is to not contradict other Scriptures. Too many Scriptures are contradicted when one concludes God made more than one man and one woman in the beginning, and not even on the same day as well. If there was a 6th day creation of man, followed by God resting, then God creating humans again, as in Adam and Eve, the conclusion is then nonsensical. There would have been absolutely no reason why God couldn't have done all of that on the same day, if it indeed happened. But for God to create some people, rest, then create some more people, I just don't buy it since there is no logic to it.

i completely agree, he made all humans before he rested on the seventh day, in truth i have never questioned that fact.
you are misinterperiting. i was not saying the people in nod are giants, i am saying i dont understand the giants mentioned in geneses, nor the probably unaccociated people in nod, but i know there are both, because it says so, I do not know if "nodinians" i made that up, are from cains lines alone, or adam and daughters or whatever i dont know.

[elisha]

Where's your proof of that at in the Bible?

Genesis 5:4:And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Genesis 5:3:And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

There is no mention of children before Seth,unless people want to invent some or move the timeline around.

[elisha]

Elisha, you may want to read the earlier posts which shed some light on most of your questions.

And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Genesis 3:20

What does that verse mean? Mother of all living?

Evolution is not saying we all came from one person, evolution is saying we all came from some goo on the bottom of an ocean or some similarly fanciful happenstance.

Also, about Adam being white. The redness of Adam does not have to due with him being flush in the face, but being made of "red clay".

One question is how old was Cain when he left to build a city? And seeing as how only Able had died up unto this point, he may have thought he could live to be thousands of years old. And people would of course be multiplying like rabbits his whole life.

Other than that most of your questions are answered already.

The mother of all living....

Vegetation was living so were animals,Adam and Eve were living.....I hardly think that could be applied to all peoples and races unless you want to apply Ezekiel 31.

The definition of Adam is as I stated it...

119 'adam aw-dam' to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).

Even so,the definition of Man in Genesis 1 and 2 is the Hebrew definition of Adam(above)

If Adam was made of clay,he still carries the definition of the above.

I didn't make an argument about Adam been red but been white because of the hemoglobin that shows under pale skin.

How old was Cain? I don't know.

It still doesn't matter,Cain took a wife of a person who did not come from Adam.

As for evolution,it is evolution to claim something comes from one source.

[otis lilly]

Originally Posted by elisha
As for evolution,it is evolution to claim something comes from one source

I have to say i dont agree with this.
evolution is the process of change in a single thing, no matter the source, not to claim something comes from one source, if no consistant sustained change, no evolution.
i raise some chickens, asils to be percise, i was on a waiting list for 7 years to get a single pair of them,
there is a diference between inbreeding, linebreeding and outbreeding but thats irrelevent at the moment
i have had this line of fowl for 15 years, thats about 15 generations. not a drop of new blood in the pure lines, and still breed them, and not a single feather has changed, not one. i may as well be cloning them. No evolution. from 2 infusion (outbreedings) with black fowl, 8 years ago, i cant get one line back to red yet, thats been 6 years of back to red birds and the offspring are still black, all of them, every time. thats evolution

[jesse]

the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7

And look at the word for ground.

Strong's concordance
127. adamah
From 'adam; soil (from its general redness) -- country, earth, ground, husband(-man) (-ry), land.

It is referring to the redness in the soil.

[divaD]

Genesis 5:4:And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Genesis 5:3:And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

There is no mention of children before Seth,unless people want to invent some or move the timeline around.

Actually I already figured this was the passage that you would use. Here's what one part of it states....and he begat sons and daughters. That's just an overall summary, which would include all sons and daughters, which would include Abel, Seth, etc. There would be no reason not to treat that part as an overall summary. That means we don't know when Adam had who, except for the ones that are being focused on.

To prove this point, look at some other passages in this chapter, the point being, it fits the same pattern as here. But first, here's this passage again.

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Genesis 5:6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.

Genesis 5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.


Genesis 5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.


Genesis 5:15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.


Genesis 5:18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.

Genesis 5:21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him

Genesis 5:25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.


The point is, this same pattern is used for everyone listed here. It's not meant to prove when sons and daughters were born, but as an overall summary instead. It's just too much of a coincidence that each one of these followed the exact same pattern as Adam, and that these sons and daughters were all born after someone begat someone in particular. It's just the style the author chose to write in, nothing more..just an overall summary of each person mentioned here.

[divaD]

you are misinterperiting. i was not saying the people in nod are giants,

I don't think I'm misinterpreting, since I never for once thought you meant the people in Nod were giants. I'm not certain where that idea is coming from? What's Nod have to do with giants?