Repentance

[Brits Van Wyk]

Hi all.

What do you make from the following that I came across:

"The original Greek text uses the word metanoia, from metanous, meta, together with, and nous, mind. From Is 55:8-11 it is clear that this word suggests to co-know with God! It is my mind intertwined with my Maker! So every time you read the word repentance, scratch it out and write, co- know with God (think what God thinks about me! Jesus is God's mind made up about me!"

There is also a Youtube video called "Fun with repentance" by John Crowder that was very thought provoking ! if you wish, you can find it here - he reads from a letter that Martin Luther King wrote to a friend about this "revelation"

[Indueseason]

Repentance is to change our minds, from the natural to the spiritual, from the wrong to the right. Paul explains it well.

1 Cor 2:

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[d] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

We have the mind of Christ because we can now see right from wrong, and we can choose to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. Thus conforming our minds and actions to His.

blessings to you

[Longsufferer]

For me, scholastic achievement is not the mediator between God and men, rather it is only the Lord Jesus Christ; and He says it plain and simple, "Go and sin no more", and that´s all we need to know about the meaning of repentance. But the other matter we need to know about repentance is it is the first thing which Christ tells us to do, which unfortunately many churches bypass.

[Brits Van Wyk]

Hi Guys and Girls

I am not going on with this post ( you may do so if you wish) Reason is that I have read a tread and in particular the post od BadDog Jun 10th 2010, 08:44 AM. - I am very comfortable with his post and thank him for that ( if I could, I would be keen to give him a kiss !)

As I do not know how to to a link back to his post, I will copy and paste it below. ( trust BD will not be upset )

Regards - Brits

Good topic! This would have made a good poll. All you need to do FYI is check the poll option at the bottom when starting a new thread, and it will let you add the options.

Now, sorry to say, but I can't quite fit in any of them. Also, I'd like to share a thought on what "repent" really means in Greek. Most people see it as "turning from sin" - "a 180-deg turn" I've heard it defined. Well, that isn't what the lexicons say. Now if repentance was turning from sin, then I would say that repentance is not necessarily part of initial salvation. But IMO that misses the target a bit.

1) The Greek verb is μετανοέω (METANOEW) - which has a root idea of "to change your mind/thinking." The noun is μετάνοια (METANOIA). Now, just as in English, the meaning of the word is not simply the root concepts. But IMO it is significant that repentance is of the mind/heart first. I once did a careful study of the use of "repentance" in the NT. It actually isn't used that many times, something like about 50 times. I tried to see how it was used in each case. It turned out that a high percentage of the time, but not always, repentance was in the context of sin--not surprisingly.

So the point is that μετανοέω doesn't mean "to turn from sin." The change involved has to do with our thinking and attitudes/heart. Now if we change our thinking about our sin--recognizing that it is sin, and that we need to stop doing this or that, then naturally we should expect to see an actual change in our lifestyle. But I think it is important to remember that the change MUST begin in our heart and thinking. It is internal, a matter of the heart, not external, such as "turning from sin." Once a person has genuinely repented, then he will see a change in his actions as well. But I think we need to be careful not to make it a physical action.

2) Regarding salvation, until we realize that we have a sin problem, and need a Savior, we will never trust in Christ. So while IMO turning from sin is not how we are saved, nor is it part of the process of becoming a Christian--strictly speaking, yet until we see our sin problem--we might say "change our mind" about it--we will not trust in Christ. So repentance is necessary in becoming a Christian, if understood biblically.

That said, the gospel of John is the only book in the Bible which explicitly says that it was written to evangelize (John 20:30, 31). Yet "repent" or"repentance" is not found even one time in that letter. Romans is the next letter that people typically see as relating to salvation, yet "repentance" only appears once there, and not relating to the gospel at all. The next letter is Galatians, and it doesn't appear there at all either. So if repentance was such a vital part of the gospel message, why isn't it in these critical gospel texts? Because we are not saved by repenting, but by believing the gospel. Repentance is a sort of precursor--it's a recognition of our sin problem which is absolutely necessary before we will trust Christ.

John 16:8-11 When He comes, He will convict the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment: about sin, because they do not believe in Me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me; and about judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

The Spirit convicts us of sin, a necessary process before we will respond to the gospel. So I hold that repentance occurs at initial salvation. But we are not saved by repenting... we are saved by God when we trust in Christ... when we believe the gospel. But unless the Spirit convicts us of our sin, resulting in a repentant atttitude, we won't believe in the Son.

3) But I also believe that repentance is a step which is needed for the Christian when he recognizes he has a more serious sin problem. As Bladers indicated, repentance is a more serious situation than confession, though they are closely related concepts. Biblical confession is acknowledging sin when brought to our attention by the Spirit, and is something which should be done every day. It means literally, "to say the same." IOW, God convicts us that something is sin, and we agree that we blew it rather than trying to make excuses. Repentance is something which needs to be done in dealing with a more serious attitude toward sin. It's often an indication of a hardened heart, which has developed over a period of time of ignoring the working of the Spirit on our conscience.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God...

Here we see that repentance seems to be a part of initial salvation, and should not normally need to be repeated... but sometimes it does, as with these readers.

2 Corinthians 7:8-11 For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it (though I did regret it), for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting; for you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation and brings no regret, but worldly grief produces death. For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves guiltless in the matter.

Now "salvation," as used in the NT most often should just be translated as "deliverance," or something similar. It most often is not referring to initial salvation. The context here (look at the last two sentences) makes it clear that these were believers, who were saved ("sanctified") in the sense of being delivered from a lifestyle of sin. The issue was that the Corinthians had a man who was living with his father's wife, whom we assume was a step-mother, and also assume that his father had died. But that was not appropriate behavior! Paul wrote them a letter, one just before 1 Corinthians. He appears to have mentioned this issue there. In 1st Corinthians 5 Paul tells the church how to deal with this issue. They responded by putting the man outside the body until he dealt with his sin. The Corinthians were really upset about this, but the result was that the person stopped living with his dad's wife and repented of his sin. Paul told them in this letter that it was time to restore him since he had genuinely repented. The church also needed to repent of not having dealt with the issue, but even taking a bit of pride in it, if you can believe that! See below:
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 It is widely reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and the kind of sexual immorality that is not even condoned among the Gentiles -- a man is living with his father's wife. And you are inflated with pride, instead of filled with grief so that he who has committed this act might be removed from among you. For though absent in body but present in spirit, I have already decided about him who has done this thing as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, along with my spirit and with the power of our Lord Jesus, turn that one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord.
I believe the "regret" Paul is referring to in the previous text (2 Corinthians 7) would be being sorry that they had been caught, but not actually sorry for the sin... not actually having a changed attitude toward the sin. But there was genuine repentance here, and it was necessary.

So I would see repentance as a necessary attitude (in general) toward our sin in initial salvation, and something that at times needs to be done when we become complacent about some habit in our lives, or become hardened to sin. Most of us have probably reached a point in our lives in which we needed to repent from a sinful practice or an attitude toward our Lord that was not godly. "Repentance" is a stronger term than "confession." We should be confessing sin every day, IOT maintain a close walk with the Lord.

Thx,

BD

[keck553]

....................... .

[Bandit]

...
1) The Greek verb is μετανοέω (METANOEW) - which has a root idea of "to change your mind/thinking." ...
So the point is that μετανοέω doesn't mean "to turn from sin." ...

This is total nonsense. Only those who want a 'cheap grace' gospel teach such stuff. According to this kind of thinking, someone can 'repent' while continuing to be an idolator! When will you people see the error in such a notion?

[keck553]

This is total nonsense. Only those who want a 'cheap grace' gospel teach such stuff. According to this kind of thinking, someone can 'repent' while continuing to be an idolator! When will you people see the error in such a notion?

Thank you. My scratched out post wasn't so gracious as yours. The Hebrew meaning of repentance is clear enough. Jesus was a hebrew.

[Noeb]

This is total nonsense. Only those who want a 'cheap grace' gospel teach such stuff. According to this kind of thinking, someone can 'repent' while continuing to be an idolator! When will you people see the error in such a notion?

True if it's what BD said but it's not.

[ClayInHisHands]

This is total nonsense. Only those who want a 'cheap grace' gospel teach such stuff. According to this kind of thinking, someone can 'repent' while continuing to be an idolator! When will you people see the error in such a notion?

What does this means exactly? Do you mean that someone who repents but may sin another day, that the repenting they did 2 days ago was false and is voided because they did the very same thing that they just repented of again? Just asking for clarification about your statement. Because everytime I read it, that's the only conclusion I keep drawing. Show me where I'm in error, if so.

Thanks

[Ted]

This is total nonsense. Only those who want a 'cheap grace' gospel teach such stuff. According to this kind of thinking, someone can 'repent' while continuing to be an idolator! When will you people see the error in such a notion?

The Brits post made sense except for saying repentance is not t turn from sin. he explains later that if u change your mjind you will stop sinning.

[nimblewillsgrace]

Religion causes us to change our actions without changing our minds. Grace, God's kindness, leads us to a change of mind which will always change our actions.

Grace ain't cheap, its FREE!

[keck553]

Religion causes us to change our actions without changing our minds. Grace, God's kindness, leads us to a change of mind which will always change our actions.

Grace ain't cheap, its FREE!

You may want to consider rephrasing your "us" and "our actions" to "you" and "your actions." You don't know the rest of us well enough for that sterotype to stand.

[mailmandan]

The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Many people simply define the term "repentance" as "turning from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning and it is unlikely that anyone has ever been saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever completely stopped sinning. An unbeliever cannot believe (trust) in Christ for salvation unless they first repent "change their mind" about their sinful position and need for Christ to save them and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation.

The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8). Just because we have repented and placed our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation does not mean that we will never sin at all again, but John states that no one who is born of God practices sin.. (1 John 3:9).

[nimblewillsgrace]

You may want to consider rephrasing your "us" and "our actions" to "you" and "your actions." You don't know the rest of us well enough for that sterotype to stand.

OK, but are you saying that if you change the way you act it will make you a better person? If I put a murder/rapist/child molester in solitary confinement it will change his actions.

And can't I say us without meaning you? Aren't you just as guilty of being wrong by implying that since it doesn't apply to you that it must only apply to me.

[keck553]

OK, but are you saying that if you change the way you act it will make you a better person? If I put a murder/rapist/child molester in solitary confinement it will change his actions.

And can't I say us without meaning you? Aren't you just as guilty of being wrong by implying that since it doesn't apply to you that it must only apply to me.

You use term "us", and that implies you have included yourself. So no, you've already characterized your own inclusion with your own statement . I have not said anything other than don"t assume the characteristics you've claimed characterize the rest of us because you do not know us well enough to make that judgement.

Speaking of child molesters, Jesus has a millstone to cure that ill