Learned an important lesson in humility last night.

[HisLeast]

My work had a holiday party the other night. At the restaurant I ended up in a small group with someone I don't get along with professionally. When I say "don't get along with", what I really mean is I often go home angry at this person, and I let our disagreements form an unjust opinion of him.

The group split up in time and it was just him and I talking, which I thought to myself "I'll do this to be polite". The topic changed to family and he confided in me how his is falling apart. Terrible circumstances I wouldn't wish on anyone. A couple hours later, when saying my goodbyes, he urges me to stay longer and join those continuing the party at another establishment.

Then it hit me. Any other day I probably would have wished this guy ill luck. Upon discovering his actually suffering, I realized how bankrupt my feelings towards him were. On top of all that, he went out of his way to welcome me to the continuing party. That's something I never would have done for him.

So my question is this:
Assuming I hadn't made it to the party, and was instead hit by a bus and died, would I now be starting my eternal sentence in Hell?

[-SEEKING-]

So my question is this:
Assuming I hadn't made it to the party, and was instead hit by a bus and died, would I now be starting my eternal sentence in Hell?

I can't say I know for sure, but my gut tells me no you wouldn't.

[teddyv]

Based upon my understanding of the immediate afterlife is that the answer is 'No'. That could be considered a semantic issue however. Based on my knowledge of yourself (as limited as that is) I'd again say 'No'.

[HisLeast]

At some level I knew my perception of this person was unjust, and yet I was not sorry ("repentant") until after our conversation. So what if I had never reached the repentance? Furthermore, what if I had been wishing ill will upon him in the instant before the bus turned me into pavement topping?

[-SEEKING-]

Good question. Honestly I can't answer that. But I will tell you that you've sure made me think hard about my feelings towards my boss. Something that comes to mind though is that, and I really believe this, God will give us many opportunities for us to be able to correct situations in our life. Perhaps it was a God-send that this happened. Just throwing it out there.

[HisLeast]

Here's another curve ball for you.

I'll assume you, teddy, and a couple others know about my "dark decade". Through that whole mess, I can say unequivocally that I was repentant in thought. Though I continued in sin, my entire will was bent around finding a way to stop. There was nothing I wanted more than to cease what I was doing. Lets call this "Case 1". Lets also call the case of my original post "Case 2".

In Case 1, my conscience contended with my actions. I hated what I was doing. My "teachers" within Christianity (assuming authority via majority) tell me that I was most certainly hell bound if that bus hit me during "the dark decade".

In Case 2, my conscience did NOT contend with my actions. I simply didn't care about the injustice of my thoughts. Yet I doubt the same "teachers" from Case 1 would condemn me to hellfire.

[andrew_no_one]

Bro, you're an awesome guy and I know from this and past things that you are continiously building a powerful testemony. Let me ask you this: Why did your attitude change about the injustice of your thoughts? Do you suppose that when the new info showed up you felt conviction from the Holy Spirit? You know that we receive the Spirit as a seal of ownership from God. About the Hell thing...you know how many wicked people are in Heaven? ALL have sinned and fall short God's glory. It's not what we've done, it's what we've done about God's revelation of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. Salvation is by faith alone. Works come but are a result of faith; faith and deeds working together as in described in James. I've known you as an upfront, honest guy...be the same way with the Lord in prayer, that's what He wants. Spend time developing the mind of Christ, as Paul describes in Phillipians. This has been one of the greatest helps to me, though not done by me, but Christ in me. Greater intimacy with Christ is where a sense of security and joy come from. Once you understand what happened at the cross and what Jesus has provided for you, you'll be able to move past worrying about Hell and move on to running the race marked out for you and perfecting holiness. The longer Satan can keep you out of the fight, the less impact you'll have for the Kingdom.
Love you bro, and I hope this helps. Forgive me if I failed to properly articulate.

[HisLeast]

Hey Andrew,

I hope married life is treating you well!

Bro, you're an awesome guy and I know from this and past things that you are continiously building a powerful testemony. Let me ask you this: Why did your attitude change about the injustice of your thoughts? Do you suppose that when the new info showed up you felt conviction from the Holy Spirit? You know that we receive the Spirit as a seal of ownership from God.

I don't discount the possibility, but its not what I attribute it to. I could have easily been a Hindu and come to the same realization that my perception of the co-worker was unjust. My wife came to a similar realization about her boss earlier in the month, and she was raised Catholic, which as far as I hear is even worse than being Hindu. How did she come to the same realization of wrong action if there's no holy spirit for her?

About the Hell thing...you know how many wicked people are in Heaven? ALL have sinned and fall short God's glory. It's not what we've done, it's what we've done about God's revelation of Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. Salvation is by faith alone. Works come but are a result of faith; faith and deeds working together as in described in James.

But surely unrepentant sin casts one into hell. At least this is what I was told in my dark decade even when my whole mind screamed out for repentance.

I've known you as an upfront, honest guy...be the same way with the Lord in prayer, that's what He wants. Spend time developing the mind of Christ, as Paul describes in Phillipians. This has been one of the greatest helps to me, though not done by me, but Christ in me. Greater intimacy with Christ is where a sense of security and joy come from. Once you understand what happened at the cross and what Jesus has provided for you, you'll be able to move past worrying about Hell and move on to running the race marked out for you and perfecting holiness. The longer Satan can keep you out of the fight, the less impact you'll have for the Kingdom.
Love you bro, and I hope this helps. Forgive me if I failed to properly articulate.

Hey, you've always been sympathetic and understanding, and that's a ludicrously rare skill set these days. I greatly appreciate it. I just want to be clear though that this isn't a new strategy for me. I am not dishonest nor struggling to achieve some kind of cold distance from God. For as long as I can remember, my every waking hour has been a near perpetual crying out. No matter what I'm doing, whether it be coding at work, doing dishes at home, or laying down concrete slabs for my friend's latest back yard project, some part of me is SCREAMING up at the heavens with a desperation I no longer have words to describe. Its frustrating when people suggest that things will get better if I just start praying to the Lord, because as far as I'm aware I've never stopped.

(assuming I know what prayer is of course)

[IMINXTC]

some part of me is SCREAMING up at the heavens with a desperation I no longer have words to describe. Its frustrating when people suggest that things will get better if I just start praying to the Lord, because as far as I'm aware I've never stopped.

I can relate and empathize. But what I once thought was my agonized, unfulfilled searching was, more realistically, Truth calling me. I now often look back with great appreciation - those yearnings eventually gave way to blessings that far outweighed my previous misery. Not to suggest that the process is not continuing, but I am learning. I might suggest that the greater the suffering the greater the blessing because truth is digging deeply, like in a precious-metals mine.

Your account of that 10yrs of travail, is a heartening account of ten years of repeated, complete forgiveness, and the loving patience of God.

There are certainly areas in my own little universe that I would not take proudly into eternity, if suddenly caught-up. But my faith was placed in the blood of Christ long ago, my salvation resting in his grace, not my performance. If I were to lose my hope at the hour of death because I have not reached spiritual perfection and have elements of sin, yet unresolved, in my life, then there is no hope, for me or anyone.

Have found myself in situations such as what you describe in the OP, have grieved over them, but have since grown and am increasingly learning to put eternity first in all I do - especially where it concerns people placed in my path, because God is actually very concerned about them and, if possible, will use me to aid them.

I should have taken time to list pertinent scriptures here and certainly will if I need to.

If you are not resting in Christ I would be your unwitting enemy by offering you comfort outside of that.

[Neanias]

Leave it up to God, man! (As far as eternal destiny)

No man can judge an entire lifetime, only God. What we have to do is be faithful and keep growing... And let the Lord sort it out!

God bless you!

[HisLeast]

Leave it up to God, man! (As far as eternal destiny)

Heard this before, back when I was trying to find a way out of my sin cycle. If I had kept listening to it, I'd certainly be dead today.

Not that I want to look a gift horse in the mouth (as the time you've taken is most assuredly a gift). Life has just taught me hard lessons about abdicating responsibility.

EDIT: though I might not be 100% sure what the "it" is that I should leave.

[Amos_with_goats]

I hope that you will not mind my ignoring your stated question.

The value of the self aware view that would even see such truth is difficult to quantify. If there is a message in the post, it is that there is great value in the awareness of our failings. You see what you 'might have done' and you know that you were changed... for the better. Your decision not to refute the change is probably a greater measure of your character then any other.

We are to be an honest people... not sure where that falls in the 'fruit of the Spirit' but sadly, I DO see where it is missing from the assessments we see to so enjoy doing from the sidelines.

Thank you for sharing this experience here.

[Neanias]

Heard this before, back when I was trying to find a way out of my sin cycle. If I had kept listening to it, I'm almost certainly I'd be dead today.

Not that I want to look a gift horse in the mouth (as the time you've taken is most assuredly a gift). Life has just taught me hard lessons about abdicating responsibility.

Wait a minute... I'm not saying you're not responsible! Not at all!

I'm addressing the questions you ask, about whether case a) equals hell, or case b) equals hell... Which, maybe you could know, but definitely not anyone else with such limited information.

We must strive... If that's what you mean by NOT leaving it up to God, and I agree.

[andrew_no_one]

Let's consider David for a moment. If you ask most pastors and Sunday school children if King David made it to Heaven the answer would be "Yes". The Lord called David “a man after my own heart” (1 Samuel 13:14, Acts 13:22) and Christ Jesus Himself was born into the natural lineage of David. When David was only a young man he gave glory to God in the slaying of a giant Philistine who was a lifetime soldier.
However, David did some other things too. In 2 Samuel 11, we read that David committed adultery with the wife of one of his own fanatically loyal soldiers and killed the man when his wife sent word to David that she was pregnant and the king was unable to hide what he’d done.
The Lord sent the prophet Nathan to David in 2 Samuel 12 to deliver one harsh rebuke which resulted in the writing of Psalm 51, David’s prayer of confession and repentance. Do you suppose David would be in Hell if he’d not done some work of repentance?
You mentioned before that unrepentant sin casts one into Hell but I have to disagree. Sin that has not been atoned for is what gets a man into Hell. Here is the problem though: Even if I live a perfect life from this day forward after a perfect repentance and lofty prayer of penitence...I’ve already messed up; and so has everyone else.

Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

Here is the solution to our sin problem: Jesus died in our place. We have no way to earn our way into Heaven (and out of Hell); not through good deeds (because that would be like promising not to murder any more people after already being convicted as a serial killer), not through giving to others or to church (trying to bribe God) and not through promising that we’ll never sin again (lying to God).
Let’s face facts: We’re wicked, we’ve sinned and we’re going to mess up again.

John 3:16-17
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Do you believe this to be true?
Romans 5:6
You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.

Are you ungodly? Then that must mean that Christ died for you.

Romans 4:5
However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Are you wicked? Doesn’t the above text say that God justifies the wicked? Why should that not include you and I?

So we see that we are justified freely by believing God when He says he will save us. Our faith is credited as righteousness because even our best efforts are filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) compared to the Holiness of God Who is completely absent of evil and immorality.
Our faith motivates us to hunger and thirst for righteousness (like you already do), mourn over our sin (which you already do), and confess to God when we sin and ask for forgiveness.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.


Oh and by the way, married life IS treating me well and I thank you for your concern!

[HisLeast]

Wait a minute... I'm not saying you're not responsible! Not at all!

I'm addressing the questions you ask, about whether case a) equals hell, or case b) equals hell... Which, maybe you could know, but definitely not anyone else with such limited information.

My mistake. I've just heard "just give it to Jesus" so many times that distrust is a bit of a reflex.