Take a little trip on the web and see what the time frame is of Dan 11:40 and forward.
Take a little trip on the web and see what the time frame is of Dan 11:40 and forward.
Up to this point, the entire context of chapter 11 has been the feuding of the Syrian Seleucids and Egyptian Ptolemys, culminating in the Syrian king Antiochus IV Epiphanes and his persecution of the Jews. The messenger speaking to Daniel does not indicate that he is changing context, so for the reader to introduce a 'gap' of several thousand years in-between chapters 11 and 12 is simply abusive to the text (let alone right in the spot where you felt it necessary to remind me that the chapter breaks are unnatural).Originally Posted by John 8:32
All of chapter 11 sets the time frame.Vs 2 sets the time frame...
In other words, you're not going to address what I actually said.I don't think you can 'figure of speech' away the resurrection.
Spoken by Ezekiel about the fall of Jerusalem in 587 BC:How many times of the end are there? Seems there was a thread on that.
The word of Yahweh came to me: 'And you, O son of man, thus says the Lord Yahweh to the land of Israel: the end! The end has come upon the four corners of the land. Now the end is upon you, and I will send my anger upon you; I will judge you according to your ways, and I will punish you for all your abominations. And my eye will not spare you, nor will I have pity, but I will punish you for your ways, while your abominations are in your midst. Then you will know that I am Yahweh.'
'The end', within the context of whatever series of events is being spoken of ('the fall of Jerusalem to Babylon' in the case of Ezekiel, and 'the persecution of the saints by Antiochus IV Epiphanes' in the case of Daniel), simply refers to the end period of those series of events... not always 'the end of all history' or 'the end of the universe'.
Explaining the whole of these chapters would require it's own thread, but put simply: the vindication of Jesus over apostate Israel, proving that he is King, via divine judgment that God poured out on Israel in 66-70 AD.O.K. then what would this be?
Mar 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Context, genre, and internally-consistent theology.How do you apply your rule about it being figurative?
When it is and when it isn't. This question is far too broad to answer in a single sentence. It comes down to individual cases, not a wide standard that can be applied to any and every situation.When is the Bible figurative and when is it not?
I disagree. It is by your distorted perception of my reasoning that 'all is figurative'.By your reasoning, all is figurative if it fits your particular view.
No thanks. I generally lose all hope of having a real, honest, thoughtful discussion when the person I'm talking to resorts to 'just Google it'.Originally Posted by John 8:32
So, this is your explanation of Daniel 9:24. Huh. All I can say is that I find it to be a very unconvincing interpretation of that verse.Third. From the post about Daniel 9: An intensified period of spiritual-exile (the seventy years of Jeremiah being multiplied several times over) has been determined for Israel, the fulfillment of which time is to be met with Israel fulfilling the actions Gabriel lists. This is not a guarantee that they will take place, but that the people of Israel should bring them to fulfillment (i.e. the fulfillment of these things are conditional to Israel's obedience upon their return from Babylon to Judah). As with the original seventy years of the Babylonian exile, the seventy sevens is primarily intended to be symbolic, and forcing it to be interpreted as exactly 490 years is unnecessary.
Not at all. But there are things within Daniel 9 that certainly make me think of Jesus. Verse 24, for instance. He accomplished all of things listed there. Also, the idea of putting an end to animal sacrifices and offerings can certainly be attributed to Jesus as well.It's simply a reminder. You seemed to be implying that, because 'messiah' is mentioned, it must thus be the messiah Jesus.
And I'm only saying I disagree with your explanation. I can see you are offended by my saying I don't buy it but I don't mean any offense. That was just my way of saying I disagree and I didn't mean anything beyond that.Above, I stated that 'an anointed one who shall be cut off' is Onias III.
From the post about Daniel 9: The people of the ruler who is to come = The Syrians and Antiochus IV Epiphanes, respectively. (The phrase 'who is to come' is a callback to the 'little horn' king of Daniel's previous vision.)
I'm not asking you to 'buy it'. I'm only explaining what it is I believe.
I completely disagree. If scripture says this (the NT interpretation of the OT prophecy) is that (the OT prophecy) then we should accept that without resorting to claiming that the midrash method was being used there. I don't see any reason why Hosea 11:1b cannot be about Jesus. Why not? The nation of Israel typified Christ but the ultimate fulfillment of Hosea 11:1 was in Christ. For you to try to say that Hosea 11:1 is not about Christ at all is just unbelievable to me.Let me ask: do you believe that when Matthew says
that he was claiming
was originally a prediction about Jesus?
Matthew doesn't say it was something like what Hosea spoke about, he says, point-blank, 'this was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken'. Understanding Matthew as claiming Hosea 11.1b was predicting Jesus' departure from Egypt when he was a child creates problems when we actually go read the text of Hosea 11.1b, because in its own context, Hosea 11.1b was not about Jesus. But those problems completely disappear if we understand that Matthew was using Hosea 11.1b as midrash, not literal fulfillment.
I disagree. I believe Jesus was clearly indicating that something was going to occur in the future in direct relation to something Daniel prophesied about and when they saw that it was about to occur they needed to flee into the mountains and so on. And Daniel did prophesy about the abomination of desolation and destruction of the city and temple in Daniel 9 so it seems clear to me that Jesus was referring to Daniel 9:26-27 since He was talking about the destruction and desolation of Jerusalem and the temple.This is how I understand Jesus' references to Daniel.* Like I said, I'm not asking you to 'buy it'. I'm just saying, this is what I believe makes the most, internally consistent sense out of what Daniel was saying and out of what Matthew was saying (and later on, what John was saying).
* (Adding to this, anyone familiar with 1 Maccabees will see that Matthew 24.16-18 has Jesus paraphrase the section of text that shows the Jews' response to the 'abomination of desolation' as mentioned by name mere verses before in 1 Maccabees, so that as a whole Jesus is intentionally reminding his listeners that the fulfillment of Daniel's visions can be found in 1 Maccabees, and hence, to understand what he is predicting will happen in the future in light of what already happened in the past.)
That's alright. Feel free to disagree.So, this is your explanation of Daniel 9:24. Huh. All I can say is that I find it to be a very unconvincing interpretation of that verse.
My apologies.Not at all.
Only if we intentionally try to find random verses in the New Testament with vague verbal similarities, that never point to Daniel 9.24 as being something Jesus fulfilled. The 'transgression' (9.11), 'sin' (9.5,8,11,15-16,20) and 'iniquity' (9.13,16) being referred to is about the national sinfulness Daniel had just been praying forgiveness for that put them in exile.But there are things within Daniel 9 that certainly make me think of Jesus. Verse 24, for instance. He accomplished all of things listed there.
The culminating part of 9.24 is to 'anoint the Holy of Holies'. Now, one could argue all they want that Jesus is the true 'holy of holies', but within the context of what Gabriel is telling Daniel, that just doesn't apply. Daniel is specifically praying about the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple. Gabriel here comes in and tells Daniel his people need to 'anoint the Holy of Holies' at the completion of the seventy sevens. He then proceeds to explain what will happen regarding the seventy sevens, is revolves entirely around the temple. Specifically, after the sixty-two weeks:
It's the same thing found in Daniel's vision in the 8.9-14:
- An anointed one (i.e. the high priest of the temple) shall be cut off
- The people of the ruler who is to come will destroy the city and the 'Holy Place' (i.e. the temple) with decreed 'desolations'
- During the final sevens, he (the ruler who is to come) will interrupt the sacrifice and offering (i.e. of the temple)
- The seventy sevens come to completion, 'the desolator' (i.e. the ruler who is to come) will meet his own decreed end
- With the seventy sevens complete, the Most Holy Place (i.e. the temple) is to be anointed (i.e. restored from its state of desolation)
- The prince of the host (i.e. the high priest) will be overcome
- The little horn ('the ruler who is to come') will overthrow the 'Holy Place' (the temple) with 'the trangsression that makes desolate'
- He (the little horn, the ruler to come) will interrupt the sacrifice and offering (i.e. of the temple)
- He (the little horn, the ruler to come) will meet his own decreed end ('broken, but by no human hand')
- Then the Holy Place (i.e. the temple) will be 'restored to its rightful state'Every other occasion of this concept within the book of Daniel is negative (implied from the persecution of the 'little horn' in 7.25, explicit in 8.11-13, 11.31, and 12.11). For the reader of Daniel to read the entire book altogether (let alone that Gabriel's command in 9.23 implies that what he is about to tell Daniel is an exposition on the previous 'word' and 'vision' he had received), those other four instances of interrupted temple rituals would definitely lead the reader to see the interruption in 9.27 as being inherently negative. Especially since the text of 9.26-27 calls 'the prince who is to come' 'the desolator' who is to receive his own judgment.Also, the idea of putting an end to animal sacrifices and offerings can certainly be attributed to Jesus as well.
No problem, understood.And I'm only saying I disagree with your explanation. I can see you are offended by my saying I don't buy it but I don't mean any offense. That was just my way of saying I disagree and I didn't mean anything beyond that.
the 10 kingdoms that rome was devided into are ( in no actual order) 1 anglosaxtons 2 alamanni 3 Visogoths 4 suivi 5 franks 6 lombards 7 burgudians 8 Heruli 9 vangals 10 ostrogoths
they were in stone and clay to symbolize the fact they would never be united under one ruler again, and oh yeah the three plucked from the root are 8 9 and 10 they no longer exist at all. daniel is one of the living cronological proofs that history proves the bible true.
everyone has an opinion, this is just mine
You have expressed the old 'Historicist view.' I believe that it is correct in principle but some of the tribes mentioned need to be revised. For example the 'Alamanni' were absorbed by the 'Franks' within a few short years of the collapse of Rome. The kingdom of the Gepids used to be within the empire boundaries (Romania) and would serve as a better example IMO.Originally Posted by otis lilly
If one is broken on this road of gravel,
That we travel:
He can fix him. Nothing licks Him.
It was never a mistake to trust the Lord.
interesting view and yes i suppose i express the ol "historistic view" so let me explain why
lets start with the roman empire callapsed in 476 add this is the historic timeline between antiquity, and beginning of middle ages, as every modern historian would. The western leg of the Roman Empire, this is the are we are talking about, loosing 1/2 of a empire would be interpreted as a collapse would it not.
then i will introduce scripture as to why i focus here
behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things King James bible daniel 7-8
notice came up AMONG THEM meaning in the same time frame as them
Heruli were gone in 512 vandals disapeared in 534 ostrogoths disapeared from earth in 552
in truth the ostrogoths were destroyed as a nation earlier than that justinian declared war that drove them from Rome in 535
they faught till they were destroyed, could that be construed as with the declaration of war they were done for , I think so
and keep to the timeline and the parrallell of history and daniel, as the small horn arises in my opinion in 538
the book of daniel is cronologically correct, the propbobility of this assumed fact being mistaken is astronomical
this is only an opinion and everyone has thiers, but i have been able to find no fault in it. I do not believe that the bible is a true quagmire, I do not believe it is Gods plan to keep us confused, it goes against the whole idea of our salvation, the answers are in the bible, what, when, and where.To find the who, we need to look outside the bible, i believe the answers to the questions is his living proof that the bible is cronological, true, and provable. where do you prove chronology= history
i am a simpleton, i do things different than most, for example
as a contractor, i help people pick colors for paint sometimes, i have a huge flip index from sherwin williams paints that i use. I NEVER tell someone to pick the colors they think they like. I fan out the whole deck, and tell them to remove the ones that they DO NOT LIKE , picking from a thousand colors now takes literally minutes, I have spent hours with someone seesawing the other way, picking what they want. I recomend people do the same with this subject, at the first instant something does not fall into the descriptions of the book of daniel, it is removed from possibilities, very quickly there will only be one left. sesawing with the options that you want it to be will take much time, and will not find answers. look at the archhives on the subject, some have been sesawing for years knowing that they want it to be something but this thing dont match, trying to find a way around that one thing.
pray for the strength to accept what you find, then ask to be shown the truth, just as we should make our lives reflect the bible, not the bible to reflect our lives. stop trying to make something work that wont (at the first no match, discard it) and you will easily find what you want. but if it is not what you WANT to hear then what.
The Alamanni you speak of prospered as a prvidence in what was then eastern francia untill about 1268 before being absorbed sorry the extra 700 years does not put it in the group of the other 3 in any means
Last edited by otis lilly; Jan 1st 2012 at 04:27 PM. Reason: fingers could not keep up with mind, skipped some lines had to go back and add lol
did 5 of these kingdoms come from Byzantine and 5 from Rome i.e. 5 from each leg, or is this not necessary?
1 anglosaxtons england 2 alamanni germany 3 Visogoths spain 4 suivi portugal 5 franks france 6 lombards italy 7 burgudians switzerland
i find nowhere in the scripture of daniel, that requires me to think that we have to wait for the total fall of Roman rule, only it being broken into peices. I look for places in the world, that chronologicaly fit the question at hand, if it dont fit, my interpretation of this is true to the point I cannot yet rule it out.
Revelation 1: 20. The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
The little horn, according to scripture is the great red dragon, Satan and certainly not Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
The little horn casts stars/angels out of Heaven to the ground AT THE TIME OF BABY JESUS, way after the death of ‘Antiochus IV Epiphanes' in 164 BC.
What does the King James version say about this?
Daniel 7: 8. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another LITTLE HORN, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 8: 9. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and IT CAST DOWN some of the host and OF THE STARS TO THE GROUND, and stamped upon them.
Here we have the identification, from scripture as to who does this great feat and at what time he casts angels out of Heaven.
Revelation 12: 1. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2. And she being with child cried, TRAVAILING IN BIRTH, and pained to be delivered.
Revelation 12: 3. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a GREAT RED DRAGON, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4. And HIS TAIL DREW THE THIRD PART OF THE STARS OF HEAVEN, and did CAST THEM TO THE EARTH: and THE DRAGON stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for TO DEVOUR HER CHILD as soon as it was born.
5. And she brought forth a MAN CHILD, who was to RULE ALL NATIONS WITH A ROD IF IRON: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
The child is Jesus, that is to RULE THE NATIONS WITH A ROD OF IRON depicted in Revelation 19: 15. “And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with A ROD OF IRON: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
The little horn, according the King James Version is Satan, the great red dragon, Lucifer casting down angels from heaven to earth at the time of baby Jesus.
The problem is that ‘Antiochus IV Epiphanes' died in 164 BC.
Do you see the timing problem using ‘Antiochus IV Epiphanes' as the little horn?
Last edited by Raybob; Jan 6th 2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: removed email address
Rev 13 mentions a beast which represents a kingdom and in context also its leader. This beast rules for 3.5 years followed by the second coming and the end of the beast as per Rev 19.
Some parts of Daniel match this NT person better than matching Antiochus. When reading Daniel, the secret to determining which character is in mind is when a 3.5 year period is mentioned. Antiochus historically desecrated the temple for only 3.2 years which was prophesied about in Daniel 8 (2300 evenings and mornings = 1150 days)
Use the rule a day for a year on 3.5 years the bible is repetitive, it is not an accident. it is for clarity, each one proving and building on the last. there is no endless cast of characters and events.
#1 3.5 years
it is my understanding that the jewish year is 360 days (12 x 30 days ) x 3.5............................... is 1260 years
#2 42 months is 42 x 30................................................ .................................................. ............1260
#3 a time, times, and a half a time. 1 plus 2 plus 1/2 is 3 1/2
I believe that a time is a year, what do you think it is? ======================3.5 years===1260 years
what other description of time do you have for any other entity of the beast.
if the secret of time was slowing you down, i hope i helped. now you are looking for something that took 1260 years.
This is just an opinion.
Within context, in short we have a years punishment for each day of procrastination and complaining regarding the promised land.
In Ezekiel 4: 6. “And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.”
We have a day for each year which is the opposite to a years punishment for a day’s sin. These events have nothing to do with Daniel or Revelation IMHO. There is no biblical connection regarding prophetic time changes within certain events. The only connection is made by men. I am glad you mentioned those verses Otis.
Yes I agree that ‘time’ equals ONE, ‘times’ equals TWO and ‘half a time’ equals a HALF which, as you say totals 3 ½ years.
Let me show your good self what happens within unchanged biblical time spans prophetically.
This is only my opinion using a few verses and that when we read Revelation we are given clear time spans in harmony with Daniel, also we are told about the same characters. Let me give you some examples and highlight in capitals for emphasis only.
Revelation 11: 1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
From verse 1. we have a temple standing. Verse 2. in Jerusalem.
Revelation 11: 2. we have the outer court and Jerusalem being trampled on for 42 Months.
Revelation 11: 2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they TREAD UNDER FOOT FORTY TWO MONTHS.
Revelation 11: 3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED and THREESCORE DAYS, clothed in sackcloth.
In verse 7. the two witnesses are killed by the beast after completion of the 1260 days.
Revelation 11: 7. And when they shall have finished their testimony, THE BEAST that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and KILL THEM.
They are killed in the middle of the last week, lay dead in Jerusalem for 3 ½ days until the last trump of God raises them.
Revelation 11: 11. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and GREAT FEAR FELL UPON THEM WHICH SAW THEM. 12. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Revelation 11: 15. And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were loud voices IN HEAVEN, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and HE SHALL REIGN FORE EVER and ever.
Basically Otis, I do not change days into years or vice versa, I don’t need to.
1. So far we have 42 months around 1278 days before the last trump seven is sounded.
2. We have two witnesses witnessing for 1260 days being killed by THE BEAST they lay dead for 3 ½ days in Jerusalem which equals 1263 ½ days, then the last trump of God is blown.
3, We have a temple in Jerusalem mentioned at the time of the 6th trumpet period and when the 7th trumpet is sounded.
4. We have the 3rd woe period coming in.
Daniel was told that the vision would be for 2300 ereb/evening boqer/morning known as THE TIME OF THE END.
Do the Maths, 1036.5 days into the 2300 hundred we will see the two witnesses appear then die, stay dead for 3 ½ days and be raised on the 2300th day.
Here we have Daniel speaking about the SAME place of the daily being taken away and the same Temple being abused.
Daniel 8: 11. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Daniel 8: 12. And an host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
Daniel 8: 13. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
Daniel 8: 14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
There is a vile person mentioned in Daniel 11: 21 – however to explain him would take up too much of your precious time Otis.
However, for context we can jump into Daniel 11: 31. And arms shall stand on his part, and THEY SHALL POLLUTE THE SANCTUARY of strength, and shall TAKE AWAY THE DAILY, and THEY SHALL PLACE THE ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE. 32. And SUCH AS DO WICKEDLY AGAINST THE COVENANT shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
Daniel was told about the time of the vision.
Daniel 8: 16. And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man TO UNDERSTAND THE VISION.
Gabriel needed to get really close to Daniel, to make the specific point about the time of the vision.
Daniel 8: 17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O son of man: for AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION. 18. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
The indignation against the holy covenant causes the vile person of Daniel 11 to bring down the temple and ‘outer court’ also called ‘the place of the daily.’
Daniel 8: 19. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be IN THE LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Let me drag Matthew into this also using Daniel’s time spans.
In Matthew 24: 15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Dear Otis, from verse 15 to verses 29 – 31. following we have a 1290 days time span. I know about the time span because of Daniel 12; 11.”And from the time that the daily shall be taken away, and THE ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE SET UP, there shall be a THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY DAYS.”
So, 1290 days later we have the resurrection.
Matthew 24: 29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
These time spans are there for good reason it is no coincidence that we are given the time span of 42 months and the same beasts including the little horn/ Satan from Daniel 7: 3 – 8. here in Revelation 13: 1. “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”
Revelation 13: 2. And the beast which I saw was like unto A LEOPARD, and his feet were as the feet of A BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of A LION: and THE DRAGON gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Revelation 13: 3. And I saw one of his heads as it WERE WOUNDED TO DEATH; and HIS DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED: and all the world wondered after THE BEAST. Revelation 13: 4. And they worshipped THE DRAGON which gave power unto THE BEAST: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue FORTY TWO MONTHS.
Where does this 42 month time span fit on the Metal Empire Time Span Statue of Daniel 2?
Daniel 2: 41. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Daniel 2: 42. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Daniel 2: 43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Daniel 2: 44. AND IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
The fact that the lion, bear, leopard and 4th beast along with Satan/little horn are around together in Daniel 7: 4 – 8. and in Daniel 8: 8. when God sets up His kingdom in Daniel 7: 18. makes it clear that “the Saints will posses the kingdom.”
Daniel 7: 22. repeats that ‘the Saints posses the kingdom.”
Again this is repeated in Daniel 7: 27. “And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
The above, gaining of the everlasting kingdom places Daniel chapters 7. and 8. within the time of the end and last end within the 2300 day period.
God’s people will gain the everlasting kingdom after the beast is killed in Daniel 7: 11. “I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.”
Daniel 7: 12. AS CONCERNING THE REST OF THE BEASTS, they had their dominion taken away: YET THEIR LIVES WERE PROLONGED for a season and time.
To cut it short, If we go the Revelation 19; we see in verses 1 to 10. the wedding supper where God reigns.
It is when we get to Revelation 19. verses 20 - 21. that we see the same sequence of events concerning the death of the beast, with the mortal wound that was healed, and the remnant being the lion, bear and leopard that are to face the sword a little later after the beast is killed coinciding with Daniel 7: 11 and 12.
Revelation 19: 20. “And the BEAST WAS TAKEN, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These BOTH WERE CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone.
The rest of the beasts.
Revelation 19: 21. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
I believe that the time of Daniel 2: 41 to 45. Daniel chapters 7. to 12. are representative of the time of the end and many chapters of Revelation concerning the same events in more detail, therefore the same time of them within the 2300 ereb boqer.
By the way Otis, during creation week in Geneses 1: 1 – 31. 2: 1. God uses ereb/evening boqer/morning for each day of that week. That term is used for the 2300 days in Daniel and does not mean years.
Well Otis, I appreciate your thoughts and I apologies for giving you so much to think about.
Last edited by Prophecy Countdown; Jan 7th 2012 at 12:47 AM. Reason: Two words 'loud voices' missing in Rev 11: verse 11.
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