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Thread: Throne of the high priest

  1. #46
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    This Melchizedek character is a bit of a mystery. Anyone got info they would like to share?

    Abraham recognised him as serving the same God as he did. Could this have been Shem, or someone else of the family line as they would have been the most likely to recognise and serve the true God as Noah did?

    David writes that the Lord said to his Lord, you will be a priest forever in the order of Melchisedek.
    Why not say you will be a priest forever under the order that was established under Moses and Aaron?

    Is David telling us that the levitical priesthood wasnt part of Gods plans forever? God perhaps had a priestking in mind who would rule all the nations, and offer the sacrifices that cleanse all the nations.

    Through Abrahams seed would all the nations be blessed--under the order of Melchizedek.

  2. #47
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Doulos View Post
    The point is that David can't very well write a psalm so that he can sing it if he didn't write it in the first place.
    I'm still not grasping the point, sorry.


    Psalm 110 has been recognized as a messianic psalm.
    By who?
    Further, both the Midrash on Psalms and the Babylonian Talmud recognize Psalm 110 as referencing the Messiah.
    Ah. Another expert on Talmud. I swear, there are more experts here than in my Synagogue. Seriously.



    If you don't believe me, then perhaps you'll listen to the Encyclopedia Judaica:
    I'm sorry, I don't see how this supports your position.


    I assume you're hang up with the translation is keyed on the plural "crowns" in the passage?
    No, I'm hung up on the fact that the text mentions a king on his throne and a high priest on his throne. Not one guy on two thrones.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  3. #48
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Doulos View Post
    I know Judaism is not monolithic but I do believe that the majority opinion on Psalm 110 is that "Cohen" refers to a very real priesthood
    Judaism is not monolithic but a majority opinion on Psalm 110 is that it is referring to king David. The minority opinion is that it is referring to Abraham.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  4. #49
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    This Melchizedek character is a bit of a mystery. Anyone got info they would like to share?
    Yes, the Jewish opinion is that he was Shem.
    David writes that the Lord said to his Lord,
    Actually not what the Hebrew says, but whatever.

    Why not say you will be a priest forever under the order that was established under Moses and Aaron?
    Unless it doesn't mean the priesthood, it means Malkitzedek's dominion over Jerusalem.

    Through Abrahams seed would all the nations be blessed--under the order of Melchizedek.
    Where in the bible is this?
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Yes, the Jewish opinion is that he was Shem.
    That makes sense,...wish we had more info on how he came to be king and priest of a canaanite land.



    Unless it doesn't mean the priesthood, it means Malkitzedek's dominion over Jerusalem.
    Doesnt it have to mean priesthood, as Abraham gave tithes?
    If all it meant was kingship, then why not Davids throne?


    Where in the bible is this?
    I added the order of melchizedek because that was what Abraham was familiar with when God made the promise to him.


    As far as you suggesting that Zech 6:11 - 13 is about 2 thrones...i disagree.
    Can you tell me what crown was placed on Joshua the high priests head in Zech 6:11?....

    and since when did a high priest have a throne to sit on or wear a crown that appears to be royal?

    God Bless you.

  6. #51

    Re: Throne of the high priest

    In relation to Fenris's point that the coming Messiah will not fulfill both roles, priestly and governmental(kingly). Moses said himself;

    Deuteronomy18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you shall heed such a prophet.

    The New Testament writers claim this was fulfilled in Christ(Acts7:27). What exactly was Moses though, he was both the governmental ruler and religious ruler, because he hands on two separate roles to both Joshua and the judges after him, and Aaron and the priests after him. Therefore there were two roles and Moses fulfilled them both and Moses himself said that God would raise up one like him, so the idea of a priest/king is from Moses' own lips.

  7. #52

    Re: Throne of the high priest

    I think a previous poster mentioned it, but the throne of the high priest simply seems to refer to his seat of judgement, see Matthew23:2. There was an actual seat(the mercy seat) on the ark of the covenant which was meant to symbolized the throne of God I believe. The high priest's throne or chair of judgment was symbolic of this throne because he was God's representative on earth.

  8. #53
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    That makes sense,...wish we had more info on how he came to be king and priest of a canaanite land.
    Yup. It will forever be speculation I guess.





    Doesnt it have to mean priesthood, as Abraham gave tithes?
    No. As I said, David's sons were referred to as 'Cohanim' and they obviously were not priests.



    I added the order of melchizedek because that was what Abraham was familiar with when God made the promise to him.
    Doesn't matter, no place does the bible say "Through Abrahams seed would all the nations be blessed--under the order of Melchizedek."

    As far as you suggesting that Zech 6:11 - 13 is about 2 thrones...i disagree.
    Well that's what the bible says. If you're going to disagree with the bible when it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas, you're inventing your own religion.

    Can you tell me what crown was placed on Joshua the high priests head in Zech 6:11?....
    A crown of silver and gold, just as the verse says.

    and since when did a high priest have a throne to sit on or wear a crown that appears to be royal?
    Dunno. But the high priest isn't the king, and he can't be because the royalty belongs to Judah. C'mon, it's in Genesis 49:10, you guys love that verse.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  9. #54
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron01 View Post
    In relation to Fenris's point that the coming Messiah will not fulfill both roles, priestly and governmental(kingly). Moses said himself;

    Deuteronomy18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you shall heed such a prophet.
    It says "a prophet" not "the prophet" and I would argue it refers to the phenomena of prophecy in general, not any one prophet.

    Moses was the first prophet to give a message to the entire Jewish people. How do we know he wouldn't be the last? So Deuteronomy 18 has to tell us.

    so the idea of a priest/king is from Moses' own lips.
    He doesn't say a "priest/king" though, he says a prophet. And dozens of prophets came after him, none were priest/kings. They carried God's word, that is all.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  10. #55
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron01 View Post
    The high priest's throne or chair of judgment was symbolic of this throne because he was God's representative on earth.
    The high priest was not God's representative on earth. He wasn't the pope he was someone who carried out temple functions.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  11. #56
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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    The high priest was not God's representative on earth. He wasn't the pope he was someone who carried out temple functions.
    No he wasn't the Pope. The Pope doesn't get to meet with God once a year.

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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by rejoice44 View Post
    No he wasn't the Pope. The Pope doesn't get to meet with God once a year.
    Neither did the high priest.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  13. #58

    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    It says "a prophet" not "the prophet" and I would argue it refers to the phenomena of prophecy in general, not any one prophet.
    It says, 'a prophet,' singular, but you think it refers to, 'prophecy in general,' plural, yeah that makes sense, keep building up those straw men.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    The high priest was not God's representative on earth. He wasn't the pope he was someone who carried out temple functions.
    He was the head of the Sanhedrin, and he was the final authority on religious matters. He also received divine oracles from God when he consulted the Urim and Thummim. Are you sure you are Jewish?

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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Doesn't matter, no place does the bible say "Through Abrahams seed would all the nations be blessed--under the order of Melchizedek."
    I believe it certainly does allude to that. Isnt God going to restore all mankind under a new covenant ( Jew and Gentile)? We will have a priest forever under the order of Melchizedek.


    Well that's what the bible says. If you're going to disagree with the bible when it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas, you're inventing your own religion.

    Something new...yes , but they are not my ideas. 1st century Jews were eyewitnesses to the new covenant and interpreted the OT and wrote accordingly. My Bible is called the new completed version...


    Dunno. But the high priest isn't the king, and he can't be because the royalty belongs to Judah. C'mon, it's in Genesis 49:10, you guys love that verse.
    Jesus was from Judah and was proclaimed as king and Messiah by some Jews. After he fed the 5000, the crowd, convinced he was the Prophet, planned to take him by force and make him king...but Jesus slipped away.
    To think he could have sat down as king...but no, he went to his death instead.

    The work of the king went beyond the political expectations of the people. He had priestly functions to perform for a more complete restoration. He would shed his blood for the sins of the world, opening the way to the presence of God as it was in Eden.

    This is why we call it the Good news for all mankind.

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    Re: Throne of the high priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron01 View Post
    It says, 'a prophet,' singular, but you think it refers to, 'prophecy in general,' plural, yeah that makes sense, keep building up those straw men.
    How is that a straw man? That's how it is understood by Jews.



    He was the head of the Sanhedrin, and he was the final authority on religious matters.
    Hmm no.

    He also received divine oracles from God when he consulted the Urim and Thummim.
    Not in the second temple era.

    Are you sure you are Jewish?
    You have 36 posts and already you are flinging insults?
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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