I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. I only wish to add that while a liberty or 2 was taken regarding Satans' mindset, I thought it went well. Especially since I had just finished reading The Screwtape Letters (again) last week.
Greetings Saints , I'm new here & just finished these 46 comments ,
what a great exchange . I hope someones around to review my questions
. In the , "spirit and in truth" which I have no trouble finding 8
instances . All Scripture is from , Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
unless noted .
23 but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true
worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the
Father also doth seek such to worship him;
1 John 4:6
6 we -- of God we are; he who is knowing God doth hear us; he who is
not of God, doth not hear us; from this we know the spirit of the
truth, and the spirit of the error.
The sinlessness , sinless , without sin , life of the , Son of God ,
Jesus The Anointed ? Could anyone spot me some witness verses , please
I don't know but when The 12 year old went AWOL at his bar mitzvah ,
is that sin ? The Law prescribes stoning for that kind of repeated
King James Version (KJV)
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death
hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth,
he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but
alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[ HE died unto sin once:]
38 Jesus who [is] from Nazareth -- how God did anoint him with the
Holy Spirit and power; who went through, doing good, and healing all
those oppressed by the devil, because God was with him;
[ "god the son had to have the , "anoint him with the Holy Spirit and
power" ?,God 1, supreme being ]
17 And as he is going forth into the way, one having run and having
kneeled to him, was questioning him, `Good teacher, what may I do,
that life age-during I may inherit?'
18 And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is]
good except One -- God;
[ NO ONE [is] good except One -- God;]
Luke 18:18-19 And a certain ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good
Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 And Jesus said
to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”
New American Standard Bible
18 And a certain ruler questioned him, saying, `Good teacher, what
having done -- shall I inherit life age-during?' And Jesus said to
him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good, except One -- God;
Scripture proclaims our Anointed was "conceived from the Holy Spirit"
Some say this makes him "God the Son .
18 And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary
having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was
found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit,
How about , John the Baptizer ? Is he a God , also ?
15 for he shall be great before the Lord, and wine and strong drink
he may not drink, and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even from
his mother's womb;
" the Holy Spirit he shall be full, even from his mother's womb;"
I can find ,"son of God " permeating , The GOOD NEWS but , the title
," God the son ", is a completely absent from Holy Writ .
1 Timothy 3:16 By common confession, great is the mystery of
godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the
Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in
the world, Taken up in glory. NASU
· 1 Timothy 3:16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness
is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the
world, was taken up in glory. (From New International Version)
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the
spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the
world, Received up in glory. ASV
"Most versions of the Bible that exclude the word “God” do so because
the Greek manuscripts overwhelming agree it is omitted. The New
American Standard Updated Version sums up what is agreeably most
acceptable saying, “He who was revealed in the flesh,” not, “God was
manifest in the flesh.”
God cannot become a man, nor can he be born (implying he has a beginning)."
Jesus obeyed God's command , Matthew 3:15,16
But Jesus answering said to him, `Suffer now, for thus it is
becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness,' then he doth suffer him.
And having been baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water,
and lo, opened to him were the heavens, and he saw the Spirit of God
descending as a dove, and coming upon him,
Matt. 4:1 " THEN " he was tested .
The self-imposed test that Jesus submitted himself to was symbolic of how we are presented with temptations to sin that are within our abilities to preform.
If you will note, every temptation that Jesus was presented with were temptations that only the son of God was capable of giving in to; for example, ruling the earth...absolutely! Do not think for a moment that if Jesus had wanted to give in to the temptation to rule the world with his godly powers, that he could not have! Fortunately for us, He did not give in to his particular level of temptation and instead He used His Godly powers only as God wanted Him to and in the end He died sinless on the cross in order to save us.
Was it possible for Jesus to give into the temptation for him to abuse the Godly powers that he possessed? Of course it was; Just as it is possible for us to give in to the temptations that we are presented with which we are capable of giving in to.
This story reflects perfectly on how any man can be tempted to give in to temptations that he is capable of doing and what he should do where avoiding that temptation is concerned.
This is the perfect Biblical example of how we should react to temptation when we are faced with it, and don't think for a moment that we are incapable of avoiding temptation. We absolutely are!
We can avoid temptation, just like Jesus did. We can banish that pesky internal voice that gives us all the reasons why it is okay to give in to temptations. Sound familiar...?
Regardless of whether the evil voice that Jesus heard during his self-imposed test was an internal voice just like we hear at times of temptation, or if Satan appeared in person before Him and spoke directly to Him, we need to remember the most important element of this story that applies to us; As Jesus banished Satan and He followed instead, the guidance given to Him from God's Holy Spirit, so too can we!
It is no coincidence that Jesus received the Holy Spirit just before He began His self-imposed 40 day test, in fact, that is the most important part for us, because the Holy Spirit will give us the same power to overcome our temptations in just the same way, today!
Jesus, being the Son of God, perhaps had to push Himself to the limits approching the death of His human body in order to fully test His ability to resist the temptations that only a man who possessed Godly powers would ever experience on His 40 day test.
The Bible does not address the internal conflicts that Jesus surely faced at the moment of His real death on the cross, probably because He had overcome the weakness that giving in to the temptation to save Himself from a death on the cross would surely have placed upon any human, during his earlier 40 day test. On that point we will never know for sure, but it stands to reason that anyone being crucified on a cross would at least want to save themselves and if we possessed Godly powers, the temptation would be nearly irresistable; that's just a natural survival instinct that we all would undeniably face at such a moment, but Jesus overcame what was undoubdedly His greatest temptation as well, and thus succumbed to the preordained sacrificial death that He, as the only sinless human ever, had been born for.
Accept Jesus as your personal Savior and welcome the Holy Spirit into your heart just as Jesus did. You too will then have the power of the Holy Spirit to banish that once all powerful internal voice that you used to listen to when you were faced with temptation and you will finally understand what the old gospel song, Amazing Grace, is saying;
I once was blind
But now I see.
God Bless and keep you all...
You keep statiing that Jesus and God are the same person, but everything that you actually quote seems to prove that they are different people.
Since Jesus says that the Father is his GOD, John 20:17, Rev 3:12, and Jesus said that the Father is greater than he is, and that sxome things he does not know, but the Father does, Matt 24:36, and that some things he has no control over, but the Father does, Matt 20:23.
Since Jesus never did anything deceptive, 1Pet 2:22, why did Jesus claim to be God's son, instead of being God?? John 10:34,35, and Jesus did not pretend that God spoke to Jesus three times from heaven, Matt 3:17, Mark 9:7, John 12:27,28.
Jesus said that he lived because of the FATHER, John 6:57.
There are two places in scripture that proves in my mind whether they are the same person, Dan 7:13,14, Rev 5:6-8. In these two places Jesus comes into the prsence of God, who is sitting on His throne. Does this seem to be two people or just one?? Maybe the principle of God should not be Trinity, which means three heads in one, but Tricorporal, which means three bodies in one.
I and the Father are one.”
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be pleasing in your sight,
O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
The problem here is your failure to factor in Jesus' two natures: Almighty God robed in a frail human form that is fully dependent upon the Spirit of His Father within Him: the fusion of God's nature with a human nature. That truth is the key that resolves every misunderstanding relating to Jesus' deity and true relationship to God.
After Adam's rebellion, man's Salvation depended on the shedding of blood and atoning death of a sinless man. The problem: Only God is sinless, and He can neither die, nor does He have blood to shed. The solution: God incarnated Himself--via His Logos--in a body that CAN bleed and die:
Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; (Heb 10:5)
God provided Himself a body: a man born to a virgin, impregnated by the Spirit of God. The result was a man with a divine nature inherited from His Father, and a human nature inherited from His mother. Jesus is both fully God, and fully man: a man Who is God by virtue of being the Son of God.
There are many passages that clearly present Jesus as God's total manifestation of Himself:
"He that has seen me, has seen the Father." (John 14:9)
"For in Christ, all the fullness of the deity dwells in bodily form." (Col 2:9)
"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."
Besides the blood and death, the Savior had to possess a human will to submit to God, in order to annul the curse on humanity brought about when Adam opposed his will against God. You must understand and recognize that Jesus possesses two distinct natures: one fully divine, and the other fully human--forever glorified by God after His resurrection. Until you do, you will never grasp the complete portrait of Jesus, or His true relationship with God.
When we stand before the Judgment Seat, we will have retained only two things from our earthly life: what God gave us, and what we did with what He gave us.
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