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Thread: Joel 2 Army of God

  1. #1

    Joel 2 Army of God

    CHAPTER 1

    Looking ever more closely to the writtings of Joel it would appear that Joel is expressing the devouring of the land including the trees (men)to where there is only stubble in the vineyard (Israel)which is left from the army of locust, palmerworm, cankerworm and caterpiller (false prophets & teachers). The land laid a waste land, but God said a day of drought will come and dry up the rivers of waters (truth) and fire will devour the pastures of the wilderness and all the trees of the field. That they should gather the asssembly together and cry unto the Lord.


    CHAPTER 2

    This chapter seems to continue with that thought and say that day of the Lord is nigh at hand. A fire will come and devour before them and behind them. Given that fire is a way of purification and in verse 5 it descibes the army that is to come upon them shall devour the stubble that which was left by the Locust.


    3A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
    4The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
    5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
    Neither this army of God is shall fall upon the sword (word of God) shall be wounded. For they shall be a people set in battle array. The Lord calls the people of Israel to turn again their hearts unto him and that he would show great mercy and be anger, but only if they call for an assembly to repent and be sancified.

    That then will God be jealous for his land and pity for his people, if they return to him that he would restore the days of the locust and send corn, wine and oil that you shall be sancified. That God would remove the northren army and bring you back into your land and pour out the former and latter rain in the first month of the season.(Holy Spirit) Thus restoring the years that the locust hath eaten, my great army that God has sent unto them. Thus the army of God is the harvest of the earth that wheat and barley in one seasonal month.

    CHAPTER 3

    Is a continuation of those days in which God would restore Judah and Jersualem in gathering those that are scatter among the nations. It speaks of precaliming war among the nations that all men might draw near, even the farmer is called into battle beating his plowshares into swords to sow in the field no more, but to being the harvest. Put in the sickle for the havest is ripe. In that day the mounatin shall drop down with new wine and the hills shall flow with milk and a fountain out of the house of the Lord.


    Seems to me that each chapter continues the same thoughts and descibes the same events which would be that the land was first laid waste by false prophets and teachers causing the people to sin. God would have them to call for a general assemby and repent and be sancified. In chapter 2 it relates in a way of an invasion by the army of God that will make clean and puriftied thereby clearing the land of stubble and weeds, leaving the ground as clean as possible for the tillage tools.


    This leaves me to ask can we assume that the army of God (2:11) is an pagan nation that can't be wounded? Clearly this speaks of the army of God that speads the words of God as if it was 'fire' and as a 'sword' to make ready the land for it planting and harvesting of souls.

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    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckrl View Post

    This leaves me to ask can we assume that the army of God (2:11) is an pagan nation that can't be wounded? Clearly this speaks of the army of God that speads the words of God as if it was 'fire' and as a 'sword' to make ready the land for it planting and harvesting of souls.
    I know that a symbolic approach always gives one a lot more flexibility to see your own theories in the bible, however I prefer the more literal approach. When I read Joel 2 I think of modern military weapons like tanks, virtually indestructible, driving without breaking rank because large tanks do not need to avoid small obstacles like ditches and houses and fences. They suddenly crash through walls and windows without warning, flattening houses in the process. They destroy the landscape in front of them through their powerful cannons. This is described as the Lord's army just like the Babylonians and the Assyrians were God's agents of destruction for a sinful Israel. Joel 2 is describing an invasion from the northern army, this is neither a symbolic invasion nor a supernatural invasion, because the timing of this invasion fits in with Armageddon and the war of Rev 19 and the war of Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 38.

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    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckrl View Post
    This leaves me to ask can we assume that the army of God (2:11) is an pagan nation that can't be wounded? Clearly this speaks of the army of God that speads the words of God as if it was 'fire' and as a 'sword' to make ready the land for it planting and harvesting of souls.
    The details of the passage seem too specific to hold to this interpretation. There's a reason the old rabbis called the Minor Prophets, (including Joel) "the original anti-Semites": the messages they brought to Israel in the pre-exilic era were intense rebukes for sin and warnings of coming judgment. Joel fits within the themes of the prophetic ministry of this time frame. This is a warning to Israel knit to an invitation to gather, repent, and cry out for mercy with prayer and fasting. The economic crisis brought about by the locusts would be followed by a military crisis; however, repentance and prayer with fasting could perhaps bring breakthrough and glory for that generation in a manner that reflects what the Lord would do for the generation of the coming Messiah and the "day of the Lord".

    For the sake of discussion, however, if one were to take your interpretation as the correct one, they would have to answer a few questions from within the text itself:

    (1) How would an army consisting of believers cause, "the people to writhe in pain"? Or, to put it another way, "pained are peoples, All faces have gathered paleness"?

    (2) How would an army consisting of believers leave a "desolate wilderness" behind them from which "nothing shall escape"?

    (3) This army is connected to the "day of the Lord" - how can this army of evangelists be so comprehensively effective in a time of "darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness"? One would imagine that such a comprehensive victory for the gospel through the ministry of such an "army" of anointed believers would be a day of glory, brightness, joy, and peace?

    (4) How would an army consisting of believers "climb into the houses" and "enter into the windows like a thief" (which seems to be describing what a wicked army would do in pillaging a town)?

    The idea that this army "is not wounded" in 2:8 is an overstated translation from the phrase, "they are not cut down" or, literally, "they are not cut off".

    The idea of "blowing the trumpet" and "sounding an alarm" is itself negative in its connotation. That there would be a devastating, crippling economic crisis that the Lord is using to "awaken" or "alarm" the people is a preface to something more alarming in their future: a devastating military invasion. The inhabitants of the land are distressed by the economic crisis of ch. 1, but now must "tremble" at what is to come. That 2:1-2 would be followed by a revival led by an anointed group of Gentile Christians is an interpretation rejected by pretty much every scholar and commentary one can find - it's hard to sustain that idea from the flow of the text itself.

    Revival and glory are found later in the book, obviously - "afterward" (Joel 2:28-31); it is an "afterward" knit to the rescue of Israel and the judgment of the nations in the valley of Jehoshaphat in Joel 3. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit isn't knit to the labors of an unbeatable army, but a sovereign move of the Lord in mercy related to the prayer gathering He called via the "alarm" of earlier in the book.
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

  4. #4

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    interesting thoughts that i am pondering as well. this post is really only directed at chapter 2 "terrible of nations".

    beckrl a few scriptures that might be of use. and of course read in context, I was digging these up for last couple days to while pondering your post.

    1Ch_12:8 And of the Gadites there separated themselves unto David into the hold to the wilderness men of might, and men of war fit for the battle, that could handle shield and buckler, whose faces were like the faces of lions, and were as swift as the roes upon the mountains;

    1Ch 12:38 All these men of war, that could keep rank, came with a perfect heart to Hebron, to make David king over all Israel: and all the rest also of Israel were of one heart to make David king.
    1Ch 12:39 And there they were with David three days, eating and drinking: for their brethren had prepared for them.

    Deu_9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

    Isa_30:17 One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.

    Isa_2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

    Eze_30:11 He and his people with him, the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land: and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.
    Eze_31:12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him
    (note in eze30:24 he puts the "sword" in king of babylons hand-then recall daniel/nebachendzer)

    Son_2:8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

    Isa_65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.


    Psa_50:3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
    Psa_68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
    Psa_97:3 A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.

    Deu_2:25 This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.

    Deu 11:24 Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.
    Deu_11:25 There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you.

    Isa_47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

    The people spoken of in joel 2

    strong like no one else has been or will be
    compared to mighty men of war - (skilled with sword)
    they have fire that devoures before them
    they are as chariots that leap on tops of "mountains"
    they do not thrust another/no infighting
    it appears that even if you stabbed them with a sword it wouldnt wound them, (Christ had a wound and does yet live.)
    eden is before them
    and behind them a flame burneth

    Christ comes as a thief in night

    blowing a trumpet is a call to war to assemble when you see armies at your gates/ its not negative its life saving.

    in short in my own words
    the "locusts" are let loose ,then the battle horn is blown to assemble Gods army to drive them off the land.

    also remember - john ate locusts

    both armies have chariots, one just had the right general.

  5. #5

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    look into "cloud" as well its much like the waters in genises

    Psa_104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

    Luk_21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    Eze_1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

    Exo_13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

    Exo_14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
    Exo_14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.

    Deu_1:33 Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in, in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

    Deu_5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

    Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
    Joe 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

    Rev_10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

  6. #6
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    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by fewarechosen View Post
    Christ comes as a thief in night
    This makes no sense. Jesus used this phrase to describe His coming as it relates to unbelievers who would be unprepared for it. Again, how are the people "writhing in pain" and their faces drained of color during a time of "darkness and gloominess"?

    blowing a trumpet is a call to war to assemble when you see armies at your gates/ its not negative its life saving.
    In this case, it's straightforwardly an "alarm" related to coming calamity. "Armies at your gates" is by definition, "negative" If you respond, it is not "negative" to answer the trumpet call (to gather, repent, pray, fast, and mourn: Joel 2:12-17); the point of the economic crisis of ch. 1 is that the people are unresponsive.

    in short in my own words
    the "locusts" are let loose ,then the battle horn is blown to assemble Gods army to drive them off the land.
    "Nor will there ever be any such after them" would then mean that successive generations of believers are "lesser than" this group. Which would be odd.

    also remember - john ate locusts
    That really makes no sense.

    both armies have chariots, one just had the right general.
    What chariots do we possess? Where does Joel 2 speak of the armies' general?
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

  7. #7

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by the rookie View Post
    This makes no sense. Jesus used this phrase to describe His coming as it relates to unbelievers who would be unprepared for it. Again, how are the people "writhing in pain" and their faces drained of color during a time of "darkness and gloominess"?



    In this case, it's straightforwardly an "alarm" related to coming calamity. "Armies at your gates" is by definition, "negative" If you respond, it is not "negative" to answer the trumpet call (to gather, repent, pray, fast, and mourn: Joel 2:12-17); the point of the economic crisis of ch. 1 is that the people are unresponsive.



    "Nor will there ever be any such after them" would then mean that successive generations of believers are "lesser than" this group. Which would be odd.



    That really makes no sense.



    What chariots do we possess? Where does Joel 2 speak of the armies' general?
    Christ comes as a thief in the night and he also carries a sword. his followers are told to be like him, they also would come like a thief in night and carrying a sword.

    as for your question as to why faces are pained lets look at another scripture, this is the exact anguish he speaks of. read it in context and you will note he is speaking to his chosen. so there is scripture talking about his chosen and how all nations under the whole heaven will be in anguish because of thee.

    Deu 2:25 This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.

    the mighty men that none are like or ever will be ? will there be any others like the elect ?

    john eating locusts/ meaning true word ate up false word- that was directed to beckrl relating to another thread but encompased in this one.

    as far as me speaking of chariots and general that was my own words, but i would say it relates to these

    Psa_104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

    Luk_21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

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    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by fewarechosen View Post
    Christ comes as a thief in the night and he also carries a sword. his followers are told to be like him, they also would come like a thief in night and carrying a sword.
    Believers are going to come like sword-wielding thieves? Again, there's a context for the "thief in the night" passage that is being ignored. There is no verse that exhorts believers to be like that, nor does the analogy make any sense at all.

    as for your question as to why faces are pained lets look at another scripture, this is the exact anguish he speaks of. read it in context and you will note he is speaking to his chosen. so there is scripture talking about his chosen and how all nations under the whole heaven will be in anguish because of thee
    Anguish because of the Lord and His judgments, not an "anointed army of sword wielding Christian thieves".

    Deu 2:25 This day will I begin to put the dread of thee and the fear of thee upon the nations that are under the whole heaven, who shall hear report of thee, and shall tremble, and be in anguish because of thee.
    Again, dread because of the Lord - and all that would happen related to the Exodus and the humbling of Egypt and the nations in the taking of the land. This will happen again on a global level at the Second Coming, but the subject is Yaweh. You seem to be confusing the two in your application of scripture.

    the mighty men that none are like or ever will be ? will there be any others like the elect ?
    You seem to be glossing over the details of the passage in a way that doesn't make any sense.

    as far as me speaking of chariots and general that was my own words, but i would say it relates to these

    Psa_104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

    Luk_21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
    The "anointed army of sword wielding thieves" you are presenting here is a very, very different concept than "the Son of Man" who is the One who established the boundaries of the oceans and rides upon the clouds. There's a big difference between an anointed church and, well, Jesus....

    In other words, you can't just pluck "chariot" verses from the Bible and go, "See?"
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

  9. #9

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by the rookie View Post
    Believers are going to come like sword-wielding thieves? Again, there's a context for the "thief in the night" passage that is being ignored. There is no verse that exhorts believers to be like that, nor does the analogy make any sense at all.



    Anguish because of the Lord and His judgments, not an "anointed army of sword wielding Christian thieves".



    Again, dread because of the Lord - and all that would happen related to the Exodus and the humbling of Egypt and the nations in the taking of the land. This will happen again on a global level at the Second Coming, but the subject is Yaweh. You seem to be confusing the two in your application of scripture.



    You seem to be glossing over the details of the passage in a way that doesn't make any sense.



    The "anointed army of sword wielding thieves" you are presenting here is a very, very different concept than "the Son of Man" who is the One who established the boundaries of the oceans and rides upon the clouds. There's a big difference between an anointed church and, well, Jesus....

    In other words, you can't just pluck "chariot" verses from the Bible and go, "See?"
    well you see it as an army of sword wielding thieves, i dont, but not everyone sees the same thing. and its just food for thought, i dont try to convince anyone.

    sword weilding mighty men that come with thier king as a thief in the night.

    there is anguish of body and anguish of soul, your body might be laughing have a good ole time and your soul can be burning. pharisees didnt burst into flame when christ spoke to them but he burned them up.

    you seem to think im saying go grab a sword and steal - no im saying sell your garment buy a sword then join the lord and come like a thief in the night.

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    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by fewarechosen View Post
    well you see it as an army of sword wielding thieves, i dont, but not everyone sees the same thing. and its just food for thought, i dont try to convince anyone.
    I don't see it that way. I'm just saying back to you what you are communicating.

    sword weilding mighty men that come with thier king as a thief in the night.
    Case in point.

    there is anguish of body and anguish of soul, your body might be laughing have a good ole time and your soul can be burning. pharisees didnt burst into flame when christ spoke to them but he burned them up.
    Say what?

    you seem to think im saying go grab a sword and steal - no im saying sell your garment buy a sword then join the lord and come like a thief in the night.
    Right. And I'm saying, "this makes no sense".
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

  11. #11

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I know that a symbolic approach always gives one a lot more flexibility to see your own theories in the bible, however I prefer the more literal approach. When I read Joel 2 I think of modern military weapons like tanks, virtually indestructible, driving without breaking rank because large tanks do not need to avoid small obstacles like ditches and houses and fences. They suddenly crash through walls and windows without warning, flattening houses in the process. They destroy the landscape in front of them through their powerful cannons.
    Well I tried to read chapter 2 literally, but there are some problems and one would then have to make up some type of literal fulfillment as in your case. If it's to be read literal then one doen't have to assume anything that is written, that would make it much easier, but that's not the case.

    Joel said that their appearance is as the appearance of horses, and as horsemen. Meaning how fast they shall run and that noise is as of chariots..... Joel isn't saying that is what they were, but as 'horses and horsemen' to speak of the likeness of their speed. In how you related how you understood the meaning it is as if you yourself wasn't reading it literally. What I'm saying it if you read it literal then there is no need to give any interpetation.


    This is described as the Lord's army just like the Babylonians and the Assyrians were God's agents of destruction for a sinful Israel. Joel 2 is describing an invasion from the northern army, this is neither a symbolic invasion nor a supernatural invasion, because the timing of this invasion fits in with Armageddon and the war of Rev 19 and the war of Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 38.
    Who was this northern army that God will drive off ? If I'm to believe that after this God will pour out the former and latter rain in the first mouth of the season, which seems to be relating to the day of penetcost where the Holy Spirit is poured out. I don't recall any northern kingdom being driven off before the day of penetcost.

  12. #12

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by the rookie View Post
    The details of the passage seem too specific to hold to this interpretation. There's a reason the old rabbis called the Minor Prophets, (including Joel) "the original anti-Semites": the messages they brought to Israel in the pre-exilic era were intense rebukes for sin and warnings of coming judgment. Joel fits within the themes of the prophetic ministry of this time frame. This is a warning to Israel knit to an invitation to gather, repent, and cry out for mercy with prayer and fasting. The economic crisis brought about by the locusts would be followed by a military crisis; however, repentance and prayer with fasting could perhaps bring breakthrough and glory for that generation in a manner that reflects what the Lord would do for the generation of the coming Messiah and the "day of the Lord".
    If you're not aware I placed the language of locust, etc... as symbolic and used to denote the rebellous people, evil leaders, etc... Can we know for sure this is actually literal? The reason I assume otherwise is that God spoke of the vineyard as his vineyard.(v.6 & 7) God in reference to his vineyard is of the people of Israel.(Isaiah 5:7)

    Given that interpertation the locust should mean those that ate up his vineyard which Isaiah also noted for us of those that call evil good and good evil that put darkness [deception/lies] for light [truth] and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter, Woe unto them wise in their own eyes.....For as the fire devoureth the stubble and shaff....

    If we notice Isaiah 5 speaks very much the same language as Joel. One might also notice that a flag or ensign will be lifted up for the nations to come with speed (Isaiah 5:26) The latter descriptions is as Joel of the army of God.

    For the sake of discussion, however, if one were to take your interpretation as the correct one, they would have to answer a few questions from within the text itself:

    (1) How would an army consisting of believers cause, "the people to writhe in pain"? Or, to put it another way, "pained are peoples, All faces have gathered paleness"?
    I'm not sure what verse you're applying this to, but it is as if the saint sit in battle array to make war. Putting on the whole armor of God. The sword as the word of God cuts into the deepest parts of man's heart to his soul. This either brings forth life or death. 1 Cor. 15:55 says that the sting or pain of death is sin and sin by the law, but to those that have accepted Christ as saviour there is no sting, no more pain nor death. Is this the pain you speak of?

    (2) How would an army consisting of believers leave a "desolate wilderness" behind them from which "nothing shall escape"?
    Widerness is symbolic of a trying time or pruification time in this the land will be devoured by fire and nothing shall escape it's pruification. How is this as believers? The word of God is as fire that comes out of their mouth. It the valley of decision for multitudes. I know I'm speaking in alot of symbolizm so I hope you get what I'm saying.

    (3) This army is connected to the "day of the Lord" - how can this army of evangelists be so comprehensively effective in a time of "darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness"? One would imagine that such a comprehensive victory for the gospel through the ministry of such an "army" of anointed believers would be a day of glory, brightness, joy, and peace?
    You bring out a good point here. One I will have to consider. As I see it there are only two possiblities. a) Those mentioned as the saints the army of God, per verse 11. b) They are the same as the locust nation mentioned in chapter 1. Then chapter 2:11 mentions that God will then call his army.

    So how would you read verse 11 in reference to the army of God should verses 1-10 apply to God's army or not?

    (4) How would an army consisting of believers "climb into the houses" and "enter into the windows like a thief" (which seems to be describing what a wicked army would do in pillaging a town)?
    Well Jesus said the coming of the son of man would be as a theif in the night. Would not his army be with him?

    The idea that this army "is not wounded" in 2:8 is an overstated translation from the phrase, "they are not cut down" or, literally, "they are not cut off".
    And how is that not saying the same thing as not being killed? ie 'cut off from among the living'.

  13. #13

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    upon reading joel more this thought comes up. the noise they make.

    Joe 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

    does stubble mean something ?

    sa_40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

    stubble doesnt burn up stubble i suppose ?

    Isa 47:12 Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.
    Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.
    Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
    Last edited by fewarechosen; Jan 4th 2012 at 05:49 AM.

  14. #14

    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    also reading joel 2:25

    Joe 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

    this would look to state his army is the locusts, cankerworm, and caterpiller

    Joe 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
    Joe 2:26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    Joe 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

    in whole, meaning that after his army of "locusts" the "northern army" would consume the "stubble" then God would drive them back/drop down new wine/holy spirit/restore land . all those prior attributes would denote "locusts" and not elect. leaves me to ponder more.

  15. #15
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    Re: Joel 2 Army of God

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckrl View Post
    Joel said that their appearance is as the appearance of horses, and as horsemen. Meaning how fast they shall run and that noise is as of chariots..... Joel isn't saying that is what they were, but as 'horses and horsemen' to speak of the likeness of their speed. In how you related how you understood the meaning it is as if you yourself wasn't reading it literally. What I'm saying it if you read it literal then there is no need to give any interpetation.
    .

    I think that you have already explained it here. Horses were the fastest possible form of military transport in those days. Joel was emphasizing the appearance of speed. Chariots were the loudest of all military machines in those days, thousands of chariots would make a general rumbling and rattling sound, its the best description of a modern engine sound that Joel could come up with.


    Who was this northern army that God will drive off ? If I'm to believe that after this God will pour out the former and latter rain in the first mouth of the season, which seems to be relating to the day of penetcost where the Holy Spirit is poured out. I don't recall any northern kingdom being driven off before the day of penetcost.
    Joel 2 is not referring specifically to Pentecost, when Acts refers to Joel, this is a generalised reference to something similar in the OT. The NT writers often did this, remembering descriptive language in the OT and applying this to their NT experiences even though the OT context does not really apply to the NT experience. The writer of Acts was referring to the same type of outpouring described in Joel to show them that the manifestations that the Jews were experiencing at Pentecost were confirmed as a biblical type of manifestation, both being an end-time outpouring of the Holy Spirit as described in Joel.

    I believe the northern army is Gog, also described as coming from the "far north". It can be identified with regions around the Black Sea, Russia/Turkey/Georgia.
    Last edited by DurbanDude; Jan 4th 2012 at 08:54 AM.

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