“SPRINKLED FROM AN EVIL CONSCIENCE:” HEB 10:22 –Bob Hall (Netchaplain)

[Netchaplain]

I believe a guilty conscience can be synonymous with an evil conscience in this area if a saved one chooses to contradict God's Word concerning Christ's atonement for our sin, which involves confessing (admitting) our sins (1Jo 1:9) and asking for forgivness (Luk 11:4), which is first done during our rebirth.

Our sins are forgiven--past, present and future, regardless of perpetual requests for forgiveness. I believe our ongoing responsibility is more confession realted than request for fogivness. I believe that our fellowship with God is best maintained through confession when we do wrong and thanking Him for His forgiveness.

[Netchaplain]

Guilty feelings and regret for past sins are just signs of a lack of fully understanding Christ's atonement for our sins--past, present and future. Many struggle with a guilty conscience needlessly because they mistakenly base their ongoing forgiveness on their performance instead of Christ's atonement for us.

[John146]

I take it you have NOT been reading through some of these other threads. There are verses that "sound like" one can lose their salvation. And there are many verses that are quite clear that you are sealed, guaranteed, kept by the power of God unto salvation. Either these are contradictions or these need to be interpreted within each of their own immediate context. Then anything that is not quite clear needs to be interpreted by the clear meaning of the clear Scripture allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.

So since we are in Hebrews..........

23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

He is able to save me COMPLETELY. Why? Because He always lives to intercede for ME. He sacrificed Himself for ME and then sat down at the right hand of Majesty on Highforever interceding for ME.

Now to those who don't want to believe that for "themselves", that's just fine with me because what you believe for yourself doesn't matter to me. Just stop deceiving others into believing this............

Just because Jesus is able to save you completely doesn't mean you have no responsibility in the matter. I know you believe we become saved after making a free will choice to put our faith in Christ so I wonder why you believe we no longer have free will after becoming saved (that's how you come across, at least)?

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

This is a message directed towards believers. When he said "brethren" in that verse he was referring to the same "holy brethren" he mentioned earlier:

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

So, what Heb 3:12-14 indicates is that a believer, if he or she is not careful, can potentially develop "an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.". So, what would happen if a believer developed "an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God"? Would such a person still be saved? How? Then it says "we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end". Yes, we become saved by putting our faith in Christ but this suggests we must maintain faith in Christ "unto the end". What if we don't? What if we decide that following Him isn't for us anymore and we just want to live how we used to live again?

This thread is related to Heb 10:22. If you read on from there you'll see this:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

This is a pretty serious warning. You have to read the entire book of Hebrews, not just bits and pieces of it. Overall, it teaches that Christ intercedes for us and helps us to live the way He wants us to, but it also teaches that a believer can potentially lose their faith and depart from God. We don't lose our free will once we become saved. We have to choose to continue to trust in Christ "unto the end" or we will not be saved in the end. That is what passages like Heb 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6 and Heb 10:26-27 tell me. Passages like those give serious warnings to believers about what can happen if they fall away and lose their faith. It's nothing to be paranoid about as if we could just lose our salvation at any time, but we do have to be careful and examine ourselves daily to make sure our faith and trust is still in Christ.

[Butch5]

Guilty feelings and regret for past sins are just signs of a lack of fully understanding Christ's atonement for our sins--past, present and future. Many struggle with a guilty conscience needlessly because they mistakenly base their ongoing forgiveness on their performance instead of Christ's atonement for us.

Are you suggesting that one's future sins are already forgiven?

[Lone Arranger]

As I think about this further a couple thoughts come to mind.

The first pertains "a reprobate mind" mentioned in Romans 1:28, "Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."

Maybe when the scriptures speak of a "evil conscience" it is referring to "a reprobate mind" not to feelings of guilt. This would fit with 1 Tim 4:2, "Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." A seared conscience would be an evil conscience, though clearly in this verse, not a guilty one - the conscience having been seared.

The second is that, like with scriptures pertaining to any other issue, we have to appropriate what the scriptures say. For example, "Be angry and sin not." We have a choice, when we feel angry, to sin or not sin. We chose to obey the scriptures and sin not. If the scriptures say being saved cleanses our conscience from guilt then we have to, by faith, appropriate it; and whenever those guilty, regretful feeling arise, reckon them as untrue and take a stand on the scriptures that say so.

[Netchaplain]

Having a guiltless conscience is the key to understanding the atonement of Christ for our sins. This doesn't mean to deny the presence of sin (1 Jhn 1:8) but realize we are free from the guilt of it. We can make the mistake of thinking that what a Christian does effects the retainment of our salvation, which it doesn't. Only that which effected salvation for us (God, through Christ) can retain our salvation (Jhn 10:29, Rom 8:35, 39).

If one lives in sin, he's not a pratical Christian but just a professing Christian; a said faith, not actual. "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith" (Jam 2:18).

[Butch5]

Having a guiltless conscience is the key to understanding the atonement of Christ for our sins. This doesn't mean to deny the presence of sin (1 Jhn 1:8) but realize we are free from the guilt of it. We can make the mistake of thinking that what a Christian does effects the retainment of our salvation, which it doesn't. Only that which effected salvation for us (God, through Christ) can retain our salvation (Jhn 10:29, Rom 8:35, 39).

If one lives in sin, he's not a pratical Christian but just a professing Christian; a said faith, not actual. "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith" (Jam 2:18).

You've made several statements about guilt. Can you show me these in the Scriptures?

I'd like to ask you what is the difference between a "profession" of faith and an "actual" faith?

[Netchaplain]

Lone Arranger, we became guiltless (even if we're not aware of it) for past, present and future sins when we received Christ. Ours now is but to continue to confess (admit we've sinned) wrongs as we see them and maintain an attitude of repentance for sin. I believe confession isn't for forgiveness as much as it is for a clear conscience for fellowship with God because confession isn't what effects our pardon, it's from God through His Son's cross which needed to be applied to us only once for a continuing and perpetual atonement for all our sins. I believe the 1 John 1:9 "confession" is more related to our initial confession during our rebirth when God revealed sin to us for us to admit or confess them and admit we have sin in us. Otherwise we deceive ourselves by attempting to deny sin in us.

[Butch5]

Lone Arranger, we became guiltless (even if we're not aware of it) for past, present and future sins when we received Christ. Ours now is but to continue to confess (admit we've sinned) wrongs as we see them and maintain an attitude of repentance for sin. I believe confession isn't for forgiveness as much as it is for a clear conscience for fellowship with God because confession isn't what effects our pardon, it's from God through His Son's cross which needed to be applied to us only once for a continuing and perpetual atonement for all our sins. I believe the 1 John 1:9 "confession" is more related to our initial confession during our rebirth when God revealed sin to us for us to admit or confess them and admit we have sin in us. Otherwise we deceive ourselves by attempting to deny sin in us.

Peter tells his readers that when they were baptized they were forgiven of their "old" sins. He says nothing about future sins. Given John admonition to "confess our sins" it would seem that future sins were not forgiven at the cross.

[Netchaplain]

Butch5, I appreciate what you mean by "it would seem that future sins were not forgiven at the cross" but I lovingly disagree because it would mean we're forgiven by what we do or don't do, which isn't true. It's always by what Christ did.

What's your thoughts on this? He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins: forgiveness of sin here intends not the act of forgiveness, as in God, proceeding upon the bloodshed and sacrifice of Christ, which is done at once, and includes all sin, past, present, and to come; but an application of pardoning grace to a poor sensible sinner, humbled under a sense of sin, and confessing it before the Lord; and confession of sin is not the cause or condition of pardon, nor of the manifestation of it, but is descriptive of the person, and points him out, to whom God will and does make known his forgiving love. -Gill