we who are still alive and are left in 1 Thes 4

[shootingdead]

1 Thessalonians 4¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Verse 17 says “we who are still alive and are left” which made me wonder why it doesn’t just say “we who are still alive” and whether “and are left” has any significance.

I wondered if the being left refers to the being left in this passage:

Matthew 24³⁶ “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Or whether being left refers to being left after after a “falling away”
"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3

Or is being left just meaning still alive?

the use of both still alive and left is also used in verse 15 which seems more to be the same thing but i am still interested in questioning the use of this phrase in case anyone has any insights
¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

[quiet dove]

1 Thessalonians 4¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Verse 17 says “we who are still alive and are left” which made me wonder why it doesn’t just say “we who are still alive” and whether “and are left” has any significance.

I wondered if the being left refers to the being left in this passage:

Matthew 24³⁶ “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Or whether being left refers to being left after after a “falling away”
"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3

Or is being left just meaning still alive?

the use of both still alive and left is also used in verse 15 which seems more to be the same thing but i am still interested in questioning the use of this phrase in case anyone has any insights
¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Consider that the word "left" does not determine the meaning of the context, the context determines the meaning of left. The context of both Thess and Corinthians tells us that those dead in Christ and alive in Christ do something together.

[TalonKarrde_X]

1 Thessalonians 415 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The Greek used in 4:15 and 4:17 (the identical phrase is used in both verses) says, 'those ones living, those ones remaining'; remaining as in surviving or left alive. The translation could be given as, 'those of us who are both alive and remain'; this would give the following as one way of translating verse 15.
1 Thes 4:15 'We are therefore telling you this by God's word, that those of us who are both alive and remain until the presence of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep (in death).'

Matthew 24:40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Here, the word used is quite different. The Greek word means, 'to send away'. I don't agree with the translation choice of 'left' in this case. These ones are not merely left, but left, abandoned, shuffled off, sent away, dismissed.

[DurbanDude]

Or is being left just meaning still alive?

I think it just means still alive. He is virtually repeating himself, he is saying something like this:
we who are alive and are the last surviving Christians left

[jeffweeder]

Christ is coming back to glorify all who have believed at the end of the gospel age in a twinkling of an eye.....whether dead or alive.
The redeemed of the human race will then marvel at him and be with him forever and ever and ever....in the place he has gone to prepare for us.

[Raybob]

1 Thessalonians 4¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Verse 17 says “we who are still alive and are left” which made me wonder why it doesn’t just say “we who are still alive” and whether “and are left” has any significance.

Not really. Better translation than "left" is "remain" as in KJV. Those that are alive, by default, remain after the others have passed on.

Or whether being left refers to being left after after a “falling away”
"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3

Or is being left just meaning still alive?..

When the dead in Christ rise, then those still alive are 'caught up' or ""our being assembled to meet him". This happens long after the "falling away" of the church happens. When the dead in Christ rise, everyone else that ever lived will also rise in that same hour.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(Joh 5:28-29)

[divaD]

Not really. Better translation than "left" is "remain" as in KJV. Those that are alive, by default, remain after the others have passed on.

Not only is it a better translation, the verse goes on to say unto the coming of the Lord...that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord. The sense is not that someone is left behind. The sense is that some will be still physically alive to witness the coming of the Lord. All one has to do is look at verse 17 as well. 17...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. Clearly then, to remain means to still be alive when this event occurs, and not to be left behind or anything.

[ross3421]

1 Thessalonians 4¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Verse 17 says “we who are still alive and are left” which made me wonder why it doesn’t just say “we who are still alive” and whether “and are left” has any significance.

I wondered if the being left refers to the being left in this passage:

Matthew 24³⁶ “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Or whether being left refers to being left after after a “falling away”
"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3

Or is being left just meaning still alive?

the use of both still alive and left is also used in verse 15 which seems more to be the same thing but i am still interested in questioning the use of this phrase in case anyone has any insights
¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Hi,

Ok if we look at the verse we first see that "dead" are raised first. So this is important to understand the timing so then we can understand "who" is left. So the timing would be AFTER the second coming as the resurrection is taking place. With that we have 2 possibilities on who are left and "alive".

1. Those who are left living on earth once Christ returns.

The one problem this poses is that scripture is pretty clear that ALL who are on earth are killed upon the second coming. This would indicate that those on earth when Christ returns are ALL wicked less the 144,000. Scripture does support this. With the thought of one being taken and the other "left" in Matt 24, are there really those which are left on this old earth living after Christ returns? Now the verse says it was as in the days of Noah and ALL were taken away. So why does Matt says this but then turn around to say only 50% were taken if it was to be the same as Noah? Well, both women at the mill were taken but one was left just as in the resurrection. In the resurrection all will be taken but some left and to remain with the Lord those taken are cast away.

Lu 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Lu 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2. Those which are left are those remaining alive after the resurrection. Being made "Alive" once resurrected.

1th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.



So first we have a resurrection which sets I thess at the second coming. The resurrection occurs in which all are taken and judged. Some die the second death are cast away but some are made alive again left to inherit the kingdom forever.

[Adstars]

1 Thessalonians 4¹⁵ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. ¹⁶ For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. ¹⁷ After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Verse 17 says “we who are still alive and are left” which made me wonder why it doesn’t just say “we who are still alive” and whether “and are left” has any significance.

These are the ones left sill alive after the tribulation. Left can be seen as remain as in the remainder.

The New King James Bible States it as "remain"

1 Thessalonians 4 NKJV
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

caught up is the origin of the Latin word "Rapturo" from which we derive the word Rapture. So those who are alive and remain will be raptured together with them to meet the Lord Jesus in the sky.

I wondered if the being left refers to the being left in this passage:

Matthew 24³⁶ “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. ³⁷ As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ³⁸ For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; ³⁹ and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. ⁴⁰ Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ⁴¹ Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Nooo These people don't get caught up/ Raptured The living ones in the field and grinding the mill are not dead. They are alive when caught up.

Or whether being left refers to being left after after a “falling away”
"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being assembled to meet him ... Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [in the original greek: apostasy - 'great falling away'] comes first, and the lawless [one] is revealed, the son of perdition..." 2Thess 2:1,3

Or is being left just meaning still alive?

Yes it means just still alive after all the persecution and the killings that will happen to followers of Jesus.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[John146]

Not only is it a better translation, the verse goes on to say unto the coming of the Lord...that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord. The sense is not that someone is left behind. The sense is that some will be still physically alive to witness the coming of the Lord. All one has to do is look at verse 17 as well. 17...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. Clearly then, to remain means to still be alive when this event occurs, and not to be left behind or anything.

I agree. I think that's pretty clear. The mention of them remaining unto the coming of the Lord doesn't have anything to do with them having been left behind, it is directly related to them still being alive at that point.

[ross3421]

Consider that the word "left" does not determine the meaning of the context, the context determines the meaning of left. The context of both Thess and Corinthians tells us that those dead in Christ and alive in Christ do something together.

I see the dead in Christ the "same as" the alive in Christ. The dead in Christ transform into the alive in Christ at the resurrection

[ross3421]

The Greek used in 4:15 and 4:17 (the identical phrase is used in both verses) says, 'those ones living, those ones remaining'; remaining as in surviving or left alive. The translation could be given as, 'those of us who are both alive and remain'; this would give the following as one way of translating verse 15.
1 Thes 4:15 'We are therefore telling you this by God's word, that those of us who are both alive and remain until the presence of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep (in death).'

Scripture does not say "until" the presence of the Lord. They are alive and remain AFTER the presence of the Lord.

So then if it is after then what event are they surviving or remaining? It must be surviving and remaining after the resurrection as we see the dead in Christ rise first thus the resurrection does not occur while others are living on earth.

Here, the word used is quite different. The Greek word means, 'to send away'. I don't agree with the translation choice of 'left' in this case. These ones are not merely left, but left, abandoned, shuffled off, sent away, dismissed.

I agree. So now which are of the left or taken are wicked and godly?

Again what is not mentioned is the resurrection in the verse prior to the taken and wicked however I see this happening which then has one taken and the other left. Or is it possible both are wicked whereby taken and left mean the same. Remember in the days of Noah all were taken wherein all were wicked. Umm.....

[ross3421]

I think it just means still alive. He is virtually repeating himself, he is saying something like this:
we who are alive and are the last surviving Christians left

1th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So what I hear you saying is that there are some Christians which survive the second coming?? If not then what are they surviving in your opinion. Note we do see a reference to a resurrection so it would have to be the second coming and the events surrounding. So are there really folks who survive the first death after Christ returns and the resurrection?

1. They would have to have made it through the great trib which scripture shows only 144000 are protected.
2. This would mean either they bypassed the resurrection and a resurrection occurs in heaven while others are living on earth.
3. They went to the resurrection and then back to earth in their old bodies to have survive and remain.

Correct interpetation

They remain after the second coming and resurrection thereby being transformed from death to life being made ALIVE.

[ross3421]

Christ is coming back to glorify all who have believed at the end of the gospel age in a twinkling of an eye.....whether dead or alive.
The redeemed of the human race will then marvel at him and be with him forever and ever and ever....in the place he has gone to prepare for us.

Note one needs to be dead to be glorified. One is made alive from being dead in a twinkling.

[ross3421]

Not only is it a better translation, the verse goes on to say unto the coming of the Lord...that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord. The sense is not that someone is left behind. The sense is that some will be still physically alive to witness the coming of the Lord. All one has to do is look at verse 17 as well. 17...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. Clearly then, to remain means to still be alive when this event occurs, and not to be left behind or anything.

1th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The word "unto" does not mean "until". The Greek implies a current event included along with the event of the coming of the Lord.

A better translation would be those which are alive and remain "among" the coming of the Lord. Meaning when Christ returns he gathers all together at a resurrection (those which have previously died and those which will die, whom is Paul himself, those he was speaking, and beyond) some to everlasting life wherein those being alive and remain AFTER this coming and resurrection.