Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
Paul earlier states this.......is he confused? he says all die but then says some do not and that one MUST die to be raised??

1co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
I have already stated that, upon the rapture the living who take part their old flesh bodies will die in the process of being transformed into their eternal perfect bodies.



Mt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Do you really think he is gathering all nations that are then living on the earth? No, the gathering is of all the nations from the the graves. This is the resurrection.
The book of Revelation clearly states that only the Saints will take part in the first Resurrection and that other people shall not be raised from the dead till the 1000 years have past.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.



As for ruling the nations with a rod of iron, this gets a bit deeper. The "saints" of course will not need the rod and live inside the kingdom walls however those which inherit the land (144,000 Israel) will have off spring which will be rule with this rod. See EZ 37.38.
The scriptures does not say he will rule Israel with an Iron Rod it says Nations..

Revelation 19
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron.

The 144,000 are descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel 12,000 from each the remnant.



The flesh being "saved" is the 144,000 so they can come to repentence and preserve the promise to Israel. Israel is the elect. God rests his fury upon Israel that a remnant may be saved. Note however they still are killed but not after they repent. They are the dry bones which are resurrected to inherit the land in the kingdom.
The 144,000 are innocents. Innocents do not need to come to repentance. The 144,000 will not be killed.

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed

Revelation 14
1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps. 3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no deceit for they are without fault before the throne of God.

So no talk of repentance here. They are without fault.



There is not a literal 1000 years. But this does not need to be proved to disprove the rapture.
I believe there is a literal 1000 years. Just because the catholic church wanted to "spiritualise"?? it into just a long period of time does not make it so.



Yes and when those that remain and are alive are caught up they will be transformed into their new eternal bodies in that process their old flesh bodies will die.

So yes all the saints carnal bodies will die before the rapture.
Ok, it then really boils down to the above. Though I do see you agree there needs to be death first. Now does scripture show that there are two gatherings of the godly. One from the dead in the grave and then after one from the living on the earth?
It shows a gathering at the second coming of Jesus where the dead saints and the ones who are alive and remain will be caught up in transformed bodies to meet the Lord and this will happen in a twinkling of an eye.



No where will you find this teaching in scripture to support the alive represents living on the earth In thess 4 which are raptured after some are resurrected. The dead in Christ ARE those which are alive and remain (after being resurrected).
Yes there are scriptures that support that there will be living saints at the time of the return of the Messiah and they shall be caught up to meet Him. This is the scripture we have been showing you here in this thread.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days