Does God do Evil ?

[fewarechosen]

this mainly spawns from another thread.

in that thread i said God does no evil. perhaps i need to think on that longer.

in the other thread we were debating/discussing about evil and if God created it.

some are of opinion he didnt, i was of opinion he did.

i then looked into the topic of evil in scripture and started to read around, because by no means do i think i know it all and i wanted to learn more, and this is what i stumbled upon.


all words for evil are h7451 in quoted scripture to follow

the first mention of evil in scripture.

Gen_2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

this scripture about God creating evil.
Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {i things.

now scripture below speaks thoughts of mans heart and how they are evil

Gen_6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


Jer_44:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah; and, behold, this day they are a desolation, and no man dwelleth therein,

Jer_44:11 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will set my face against you for evil, and to cut off all Judah.

Jer_44:27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

Jer_45:5 And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not: for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: but thy life will I give unto thee for a prey in all places whither thou goest.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Lam 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
Lam 3:40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.

Jer 52:2 And he did that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD, according to all that Jehoiakim had done.

[fewarechosen]

so now earlier i said God did no evil
after lookin in scripture more it appears he does.

the same evil he told people not to do - he himself said it comes from his mouth and he would subject people to and has done.

by all means read all these in context, I dont want to think i just randomly grabbed scripture, and all these "evil" are same in concordence, and many more that i did not post.

can you find any scripture saying God does no evil ?

lets find scripture First - it is fine to have an opinion but i would like scripture listed first

[rejoice44]

so now earlier i said God did no evil
after lookin in scripture more it appears he does.

the same evil he told people not to do - he himself said it comes from his mouth and he would subject people to and has done.

by all means read all these in context, I dont want to think i just randomly grabbed scripture, and all these "evil" are same in concordence, and many more that i did not post.

can you find any scripture saying God does no evil ?

lets find scripture First - it is fine to have an opinion but i would like scripture listed first

Evil does not necessarily equate to sin. When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah that was evil, but it was also just. God is good, and only God is good.

[Slug1]

Evil does not necessarily equate to sin. When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah that was evil, but it was also just. God is good, and only God is good.

I don't think we can comprehend a true definition of exactly what evil is??

I mean, if the act of destroying those cities can be considered evil, then God does a whole BUNCH of evil.

Is man evil if they are obedient to God when they are told to slaughter human life and they do it?

It's a sin to be disobedient to God's commands... so when God says to go into a city and slaughter all life to include the men, women and children and also the livestock... does man sin for doing evil in destroying the life of a city, or in saying NO to God?

We need to define "evil" because God doesn't do anything that is evil.

[Protective Angel]

Seems like most references are of Gods punishments

The one I think concerns me is Isa 45:7 saying God created evil.

Second, notice that the tree of knowledge contains both GOOD AND EVIL. We know the evil that Adam and Eve recieved, but did any GOOD come from eating?

[fewarechosen]

i am not speaking of sin only evil

and i agree slug, i am trying to see what scripture says is evil.

i think in the terms i have seen in these scriptures - he would indeed be doing a bunch of evil
slug i would think if the person was told from God to kill and didnt then that would be a sin and would be evil of that person. example i can think of was moses i think where they divided the people as to who stood with him and against (paraphrase).


now im not saying hes sinning or doing something wrong, but from the concepts laid forth in scripture it appears he says he did create and does evil, not saying that as a character flaw of God or something like that, just trying to figure out his definition so when things are spoken of as evil i have a solid understanding.

and by all means i am open to any scripture that says something to speak against this idea or flesh it out further because i am trying to form more solid thoughts myself.

in my mind if God says he created evil and uses it he is just to do so and its up to me to come to grips with it.

[Slug1]

in my mind if God says he created evil and uses it he is just to do so and its up to me to come to grips with it.

Seems that it's "our" perception of evil that helps us OR hinders us in understanding and coming to grips with "what" is evil.

If we determine that killing is evil... then we serve an "evil" God.

Since that isn't true... then we need to perceive and understand "evil" the same way that God does.

[fewarechosen]

i find no account in scripture that it would be correct to say - God is evil

i do find account in scripture that it would be correct to say - God does evil

would anyone agree with statement - God does evil ?

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

good proceeds from his mouth and so does evil

[david]

i find no account in scripture that it would be correct to say - God is evil

i do find account in scripture that it would be correct to say - God does evil

would anyone agree with statement - God does evil ?

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

good proceeds from his mouth and so does evil

In my opinion, he brings evil upon all flesh to discipline them.
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:5-11
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol. Proverbs 23:13-14
And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him. Job 42:11

would you be convinced that bringing evil upon all flesh (jer 45.5) is not the same as doing sin?
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 5:21
He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 1 Peter 2:22

[LookingUp]

NO! GOD DOES NOT DO EVIL!

this mainly spawns from another thread.

in that thread i said God does no evil. perhaps i need to think on that longer.

Is God perfectly good? Are good and evil opposites? How can a perfectly good God BE/DO evil?

in the other thread we were debating/discussing about evil and if God created it.

some are of opinion he didnt, i was of opinion he did.

Did God create existence?

i then looked into the topic of evil in scripture and started to read around, because by no means do i think i know it all and i wanted to learn more, and this is what i stumbled upon.


all words for evil are h7451 in quoted scripture to follow

the first mention of evil in scripture.

Gen_2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Are you willing to believe that God created an actual tree that had the ability to produce fruit that would give knowledge of good and evil? And if so, does that “knowledge” of evil mean that God created evil? If not, how does this Scripture support the idea that God “created” evil?

this scripture about God creating evil.
Isa_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {i things.

This passage is addressing the future deliverance of the children of Israel out of Babylon (Isa. 45:1-6). The “light” and “darkness” refer to “liberation” and “captivity” (as in Isa. 9:1; Lam. 3:2). The “evil” refers to the “disaster” with which God plans to curse Babylon. God’s “creating” here is not ex nihilo but an action which gives specific shape to a situation of historical judgment (Terrence Fretheim). In other words, God does not cause or ordain evil. This passage is not related to God’s “cosmic sovereign activity” but specifically relates to prophecy regarding what will take place on the nation who chooses to oppose the Almighty God.

now scripture below speaks thoughts of mans heart and how they are evil

Gen_6:5And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

In context, we see this is related to the sexual perversion that was rampant in those days (Gen. 6:1-4). Does God struggle with this same kind of sexual perversion? Does He create it?

Jer_44:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah; and, behold, this day they are a desolation, and no man dwelleth therein,

What kind of “evil” do you suppose this is? Sexual evil? Murderous evil? Or could it possibly be another word for disaster? Is it at all possible that we have one word—evil—used to describe more than one kind of act?

Or do you even consider that the phrase used “I have brought” means that He has allowed this evil to come upon them? God takes responsibility in the sense that He has allowed/brought it but He never is the causer of it.

Jer_44:11 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will set my face against you for evil, and to cut off all Judah.

Jer_44:27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

Jer_45:5 And seekest thou great things for thyself? seek them not: for, behold, I will bring evil upon all flesh, saith the LORD: but thy life will I give unto thee for a prey in all places whither thou goest.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
Lam 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
Lam 3:40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.

Jer 52:2 And he did that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD, according to all that Jehoiakim had done.

Think about this. Those actually and physically committing the evil are persons/people with the free will to choose to do so. It is not God taking hold of their hands and feet and MAKING them commit such acts. He ALLOWS it and He, being the great and wonderful God He is actually assumes some responsibility because He allows it to take place. Don’t you see? That doesn’t mean HE DOES IT. He doesn’t create it or do it or take part in it. He allows us to create and take part in our own evil ways and desires. When He allows it, Scripture speaks as if He brings it. He, personally and literally, does not bring it. We BRING it. We are responsible! We are the ones who choose to commit these atrocities! Not God. But our precious, beautiful, incomprehensibly loving God takes the fall. He takes the fall when He is the One who is flawless.

[fewarechosen]

In my opinion, he brings evil upon all flesh to discipline them.
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:5-11
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die. If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol. Proverbs 23:13-14
And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him. Job 42:11

would you be convinced that bringing evil upon all flesh (jer 45.5) is not the same as doing sin?
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 5:21
He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. 1 Peter 2:22

i am only speaking of evil, not speaking of sin at all, not relating sin to evil in any way that a different discussion.

[david]

i am only speaking of evil, not speaking of sin at all, not relating sin to evil in any way that a different discussion.

Thing is, evil can be spoken of as sin and also as disaster in general.
There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. Romans 2:9-11
because of his sins that he committed, doing evil in the sight of the LORD, walking in the way of Jeroboam, and for his sin which he committed, making Israel to sin. 1 Kings 16:19
So Solomon did what was evil in the sight of the LORD and did not wholly follow the LORD, as David his father had done. 1 Kings 11:6


It says "all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17)." If God did not do unrighteousness, and evil is not unrighteousness, what is it then? There must be two kinds of evil.

[Silvermist]

Maybe evil is destructiveness and God uses destructiveness to destroy destructiveness, which is a good thing. Only God knows whether people will eventually repent or not, therefor He can use destructiveness to bring about good. A minus and a minus is a plus. Does that make sense?

[david]

Maybe evil is destructiveness and God uses destructiveness to destroy destructiveness, which is a good thing. Only God knows whether people will eventually repent or not, therefor He can use destructiveness to bring about good. A minus and a minus is a plus. Does that make sense?

yea that does make sense.
Folly (evil) is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it (evil) far from him. Proverbs 22:15 = good

[fewarechosen]

Maybe evil is destructiveness and God uses destructiveness to destroy destructiveness, which is a good thing. Only God knows whether people will eventually repent or not, therefor He can use destructiveness to bring about good. A minus and a minus is a plus. Does that make sense?

i am thinking along these lines, if i recall right he speaks of the sword, famine,plague that he will unleash on some.

i also note scriptures like david last posted and how that applies.

i recall this
and im only speaking to those who feel God might make evil and he might do evil

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.


lets go along the lines of evil being destructiveness to see if it gels with scripture.

satan wanted God to allow him to do (evil)(destroy jobs things) to Job
God said ok (not judging his reasons,im sure he did it to prove a point to satan and job and his friends)- and let evil befall Job

other examples i can think of -rains on just and unjust- and explains why destructive things(cancer/murder)evil befalls us all.

so in the story it would appear satan had no power to do evil(destructive) to anyone unless God gives him the ok and it would appear he oks it.

the concept of "destructiveness" i think is a good start to consider

it gels with him making evil, using evil

the negative negative makes sense to me as well as davids post about -rod and child it seems to fit

as a side note i dont tie this to sin at all, cause Gods doing evil but he sure aint sinning

i think of putting a sick pet to sleep, you are destroying it and you feel bad, but your doing it for their own good if they are suffering. so you feel bad cause its "destructive" yet you will do it to do good and spare them.

if God uses evil to strip the ground so good things can be planted it would be for good.

thank you for your thoughts silvermist