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Thread: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

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    Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Something went terribly wrong with God's plan "A" in Adam. Then He had to make a new plan... Plan "B".

    2 Tim 1: 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,


    So, what was the idea with Adam then ?

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Since God,in his foreknowledge,knew Adam would fall we see that Yeshua is the lamb "slain from the foundation of the world"

    Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Yeshua is not plan B.

    Blessings

    Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying,Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.




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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by Brits Van Wyk View Post
    Something went terribly wrong with God's plan "A" in Adam. Then He had to make a new plan... Plan "B".

    2 Tim 1: 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,


    So, what was the idea with Adam then ?
    The scripture you quoted contradicts your summary premise.

    It states that the Father's "own purpose" to give us through Christ Jesus was 'before the ages began'. Therefore, it was a plan A long before God created Adam. Adam was created by God with the understanding that Adam would fall and was never intended to be a perpetual perfect prodigeny for humankind.

    Christ as the redeemer of mankind was always plan a, for God making man with the volition to choose, God knew that man (Adam and afterward) would sin; and would need a saviour to redeem them.

    That's why Revelation reminds us that Jesus was slain before the foundations of the earth, because His plan-a for us, long preceeded the Adam initiation of the mortal human race.

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Why do we think that salvation is Plan A? B? or C? Could it be that God wants something more from man and that salvation makes that possible after the fall? Could it be that what God wanted from man was the same before the fall as after the fall and that whether man fell or not didn't change God's purpose for man?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    The scripture you quoted contradicts your summary premise.

    I know... done on purpose

    It states that the Father's "own purpose" to give us through Christ Jesus was 'before the ages began'. Therefore, it was a plan A long before God created Adam. Adam was created by God with the understanding that Adam would fall and was never intended to be a perpetual perfect prodigeny for humankind.

    OK, that is also my thoughts on this... However,.... what was the tree of Life doing there. ( God set a guard there to protect the tree "lest they become like Us and live forever" ?????

    Christ as the redeemer of mankind was always plan a, for God making man with the volition to choose, God knew that man (Adam and afterward) would sin; and would need a saviour to redeem them.

    That's why Revelation reminds us that Jesus was slain before the foundations of the earth, because His plan-a for us, long preceeded the Adam initiation of the mortal human race.

    I hear you. Just wondering if you can explain the "long preceeded" section please

    This is very interesting. thanks. I will also ask a question from the post just after yours. Please feel free to respond to that as well.

    Love
    Brits
    Last edited by Brits Van Wyk; Jan 10th 2012 at 04:53 PM. Reason: correct quote section

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Why do we think that salvation is Plan A? B? or C? Could it be that God wants something more from man and that salvation makes that possible after the fall? Could it be that what God wanted from man was the same before the fall as after the fall and that whether man fell or not didn't change God's purpose for man?
    Brother Mark

    Stoked with your post !

    You have 100% of my attention. Please do explain.


    Perhaps you can also touch on the time period following Adam till the cross and resurrection of our Lord Jesus... I would like to know what the possible reason could be for this "delay" as it will make sense that it could have rather happened earlier. ????


    Love
    Brits

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by Brits Van Wyk View Post
    Brother Mark

    Stoked with your post !

    You have 100% of my attention. Please do explain.


    Perhaps you can also touch on the time period following Adam till the cross and resurrection of our Lord Jesus... I would like to know what the possible reason could be for this "delay" as it will make sense that it could have rather happened earlier. ????


    Love
    Brits
    IMO, God wanted a vast family of sons that were like Jesus. That is a sanctification process. We are called to be like Jesus.

    Rom 8:29-30
    29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
    NASU

    Those that are foreknew are to be conformed to the image of Jesus. This does not happen at salvation! It just begins at salvation!

    The first Adam was tested. He could have said no, ate from the Tree of Life, and been transformed. Then, IMO, another test would have come where he needed to say no, to embrace the cross, then to eat from the Tree of Life. And so on. At which point, like Enoch, 7th from Adam (7 being perfect, Enoch is a type of the mature Adam), Enoch was not, so God took him. Adam too could have been taken when he matured.

    So then the embracing of the cross was found even in Genesis. Adam should have said no to his flesh but he did not. In Genesis, the seed is mentioned. Jesus says that if the seed does not die, then it cannot bear fruit! So death was even part of creation prior to sin. Not the kind of death that comes from sin, but the kind of death that brings life! Or said like Jesus says "He who seeks to save his life will lose it. But he who loses his life for my sake will save it."

    In the end, God wanted a vast family that was conformed to the image of his Son. When man fell, salvation/redemption was needed in order to fulfill that purpose. Prior to man's fall, sanctification was needed to perform that purpose. The cross has always been in Christ. Even before there was a need, he lived as if crucified, dead to self but alive to God. It's part of who He is.

    As for the resurrection happening earlier, I have no thoughts on that at all. It happened at the right time. Yet, IMO, salvation is only the beginning of what God desires from us. Had Adam not sinned, we still would each have to learn to "take up our cross and follow Him". Though it would have happened without spiritual death, and physical death, there still had to be a "death to self" for sanctification to occur. For us to experience the "power of his resurrection" there must of necessity be an experience of "his sufferings". Does that mean I die on a cross physically? No. It does mean that I take up my own cross and follow him and die to myself and live unto Him!

    IMO, this plan was the same whether man fell into sin or not. For maturity towards God still requires saying no to our flesh which even Jesus had to do, though he had no sin. And God's ultimate intention for us, is to be conformed to the image of His Son. Salvation starts the process but there is more after salvation that God still desires from us! Much more! It is to His glory and our blessing that such is the case!!!

    Hope I made a little bit of sense.

    Grace and peace,

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    IMO, God wanted a vast family of sons that were like Jesus. That is a sanctification process. We are called to be like Jesus.

    Rom 8:29-30
    29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
    NASU

    Those that are foreknew are to be conformed to the image of Jesus. This does not happen at salvation! It just begins at salvation!

    OK... just tell me if restoration at acceptance on Jesus is a "partial" thing - i.e partially holy, partially restored, partially righteous etc... or am I bundling different stuff in to a single concept? - IMO, it is a completed work. I do however understand that there is a process that follows but I am not convinced that it speaks of the same "restoration/reconciliation - can we discuss this pls?

    The first Adam was tested. tested or tempted ? He could have said no, ate from the Tree of Life, and been transformed. Then, IMO, another test would have come where he needed to say no, to embrace the cross, then to eat from the Tree of Life. And so on. At which point, like Enoch, 7th from Adam (7 being perfect, Enoch is a type of the mature Adam), Enoch was not, so God took him. Adam too could have been taken when he matured.

    "when he matured" Any scripture for this, even deducted from scripture?

    So then the embracing of the cross was found even in Genesis. Adam should have said no to his flesh but he did not. In Genesis, the seed is mentioned. Jesus says that if the seed does not die, then it cannot bear fruit! So death was even part of creation prior to sin. Not the kind of death that comes from sin, but the kind of death that brings life! Or said like Jesus says "He who seeks to save his life will lose it. But he who loses his life for my sake will save it."

    I agree. Never thought about death in this way. (never got to that to start off with.. too much other meat

    In the end, God wanted a vast family that was conformed to the image of his Son. Scripture or further explination to confirm this pleaseWhen man fell, salvation/redemption was needed in order to fulfill that purpose. Prior to man's fall, sanctification was needed to perform that purpose. The cross has always been in Christ. Even before there was a need, he lived as if crucified, dead to self but alive to God. It's part of who He is.

    As for the resurrection happening earlier, I have no thoughts on that at all. It happened at the right time. Yet, IMO, salvation is only the beginning of what God desires from us. Had Adam not sinned, we still would each have to learn to "take up our cross and follow Him". Though it would have happened without spiritual death, and physical death, there still had to be a "death to self" for sanctification to occur. For us to experience the "power of his resurrection" there must of necessity be an experience of "his sufferings". Does that mean I die on a cross physically? No. It does mean that I take up my own cross and follow him and die to myself and live unto Him!

    amen

    IMO, this plan was the same whether man fell into sin or not. For maturity towards God still requires saying no to our flesh which even Jesus had to do, though he had no sin. And God's ultimate intention for us, is to be conformed to the image of His Son. Salvation starts the process but there is more after salvation that God still desires from us! Much more! It is to His glory and our blessing that such is the case!!!


    "there is more after salvation that God still desires from us! Much more!" -- could this be for and not from?
    I gather that this is not human works? Anyhow, perhaps I can suggest two main "classes of Things" that God desires for us, being
    (a) bearing fruit (fruit of the Spirit not fruit of the person)
    (b) fellowship with Abba


    Hope I made a little bit of sense.

    Grace and peace,

    Mark
    Mark, thank you for such a constructive reply.. I trust you will see that I am not trying to question your convictions, but that they really do interest me.. I respect your views. thanks

    Love
    Brits

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by Brits Van Wyk View Post
    Mark, thank you for such a constructive reply.. I trust you will see that I am not trying to question your convictions, but that they really do interest me.. I respect your views. thanks
    No problem there. I enjoy a good discussion regardless of the outcome. I am not to interested in argument though. And believe me, you do not come off as argumentative!

    OK... just tell me if restoration at acceptance on Jesus is a "partial" thing - i.e partially holy, partially restored, partially righteous etc... or am I bundling different stuff in to a single concept? - IMO, it is a completed work. I do however understand that there is a process that follows but I am not convinced that it speaks of the same "restoration/reconciliation - can we discuss this pls?
    Sure we can discuss. I am not saying a saved man isn't "complete" so much as I am saying a saved man isn't mature. As Paul said in COllosians, "we are complete in Him". But there is much room to grow. It is the growth into what we are to be that I am referring to. Paul called the Corinthians "carnal". Yet, they were saved. But they were not yet what God intended for them to be. That requires growth and maturity.

    tested or tempted?
    God tested him. Satan tempted him. Such is often the case with us. When Israel was in the desert for 40 years, there were many temptations there. But God called it testing.

    Deut 8:2-3
    2 " You shall remember all the way which the Lord your God has led you in the wilderness these forty years, that He might humble you, testing you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not.
    NASU

    We see this pattern throughout scripture. Joseph has a dream he will be head of his people but then is sold into slavery. There God tested him, but the enemy tempted him (remember the wife of his owner?). David was called to be King, but lived in caves. The enemy tempted him to kill Saul. God tested, the enemy tempted.

    Adam was tested. But it was the enemy who tempted him to eat the fruit. God put the fruit there, but never once did he tempt Adam to eat it. So it is with us. God tests us too. But in that testing arena, the enemy will tempt us to sin.

    "when he matured" Any scripture for this, even deducted from scripture?
    Two things, we know the number 7 means mature, or complete. Enoch was the 7th from Adam. Second, we have this scripture.

    Gen 5:21-24

    21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and became the father of Methuselah. 22 Then Enoch walked with God three hundred years after he became the father of Methuselah, and he had other sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
    NASU

    Enoch walked with God and then was taken. He started walking with God after he had a child. Genesis 5 is often called the "chapter of death" as it states over and over again... "and he died". Enoch was the only one that did not die. In Hebrews 11, we are given a list of people that pleased the Lord. Enoch is one.

    Heb 11:5
    5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
    NASU

    To be honest, my reading of these passages lead me to believe Enoch had matured (i.e. 7th from Adam and that he walked with God and that he pleased the Lord) even though none of them state it directly.

    So then the embracing of the cross was found even in Genesis. Adam should have said no to his flesh but he did not. In Genesis, the seed is mentioned. Jesus says that if the seed does not die, then it cannot bear fruit! So death was even part of creation prior to sin. Not the kind of death that comes from sin, but the kind of death that brings life! Or said like Jesus says "He who seeks to save his life will lose it. But he who loses his life for my sake will save it."

    I agree. Never thought about death in this way. (never got to that to start off with.. too much other meat

    Scripture or further explination to confirm this please
    I would offer up the entirety of scripture on this one. God has called us sons. He is our father. He has stated his desire to sum up everything in Christ. He has stated his desire to conform every believer into the image of Christ. Note that in the garden, God made man in his own image. Yet, when man ate, he became less like God than he was before! Salvation enables us to be in the image of God again in the way we should be, i.e. Christ in us the hope of glory. Yet, there is more that the Lord wants. He wants us to have the mind of Christ.

    1 Cor 2:16
    16 ForWHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.
    NASU

    He wants us to have the love of Christ.

    Rom 5:3-5
    3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
    NASU

    He wants us to bear the fruit of the Spirit, which is making us like Jesus.

    John 15:8
    8 "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit,
    NASU

    We see throughout scripture that God wants us to be like Jesus.

    Phil 3:10-11
    10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, beingconformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
    NASU

    and
    1 Peter 1:13-16

    13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
    NASU

    Note the measure of the holiness that God desires from us is His holiness! And that it only comes through grace of Who Jesus is.

    Finally, I come back to this verse...

    Rom 8:28-29

    28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son
    NASU

    He desires us, his sons and daughters, to be conformed to the image of Christ! He wants us to be just like Jesus. That is a process. When we are saved, we get a desire to be like Christ in our character, we begin to love God, we want to please Him. As we walk with him, then we grow more like Jesus.

    "there is more after salvation that God still desires from us! Much more!" -- could this be for and not from?
    I gather that this is not human works? Anyhow, perhaps I can suggest two main "classes of Things" that God desires for us, being
    (a) bearing fruit (fruit of the Spirit not fruit of the person)
    (b) fellowship with Abba
    Indeed! For us and "from" us. But not "from" as in demanding! Rather, from us in grace. He wants us to be like Jesus and to live for the pleasure of God! Yet, he gives us so much even when we don't deserve it! Does a parent want love from their kids? Sure. But he also wants so much for the child the child cannot comprehend all that is in the parents heart until much later in life! But the parent also wants things from us. Thing is, we can offer nothing to God that he has not first given to us!

    Rom 11:36
    36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
    NASU

    Hope I made a little bit of sense.
    Yes it did! And I am grateful that you pointed out that God had a heart for us. Otherwise, I fear my thoughts on grace would have been interpreted as thoughts on fulfilling that which we cannot. Thank you for pointing that out.

    Grace to you,

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    I think "plan A" "plan B," etc. is a human contrivance, and are not concepts that apply to God. We layer our plans based on lack of something - wisdom, information, response, etc. The Bible is clear that God lacks nothing. If we had infinite knowledge, if we were soverign and created the universe, if we had infinite wisdom, then we would not need to rely on a thought pattern that is layered with more than one possible outcome.

    In some human endevours, we do have enough information to just have a "plan A" for some applications, and in those cases, we do not lack anything in performing that particular application.

    But we are finite created beings with finite knowledge, finite wisdom, finite perceptions. God is not a created being, meaning His knowledge HAS to be (by default) infriite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite perception. The reason this has to be the default is that one can not mark a boundary or draw a line in eternity.

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Hi all ( and Mark)

    In the light of what Mark say about maturity:
    then we grow more like Jesus
    There is scripture that tells us that we 'grow", "become like", move from "milk to meat" and many more, all indicating a process to something --maybe maturity?

    I would like to get ideas on how this relates to what Jesus said about us "becoming like little children"

    I do not look for contradictions in these but a understanding of the characteristics displayed by a child that allows such as these to enter the Kingdom.

    I may propose some of them to be;

    (1) childlike faith or trust
    (2) innocence
    (3) sincerity
    (4) lack of inhibitions

    there are off course some characteristics commonly found in children (and mature adults) that may be construed as "ugly"
    (a) selfishness
    (b) etc..

    So, the question would then be... are we to become like little children and if so, in what way?
    Whilst maturing in what other ways?

    Please accept that I do not in any way say we do this by our own effort/will power or from own strength.

    Thanks
    Brits

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by Brits Van Wyk View Post
    (1) childlike faith or trust
    (2) innocence
    (3) sincerity
    (4) lack of inhibitions

    there are off course some characteristics commonly found in children (and mature adults) that may be construed as "ugly"
    (a) selfishness
    (b) etc..

    So, the question would then be... are we to become like little children and if so, in what way?
    Whilst maturing in what other ways?

    Please accept that I do not in any way say we do this by our own effort/will power or from own strength.

    Thanks
    Brits
    Let's start with holiness!

    1 Peter 1:13-16

    13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
    NASU

    We receive holiness in the same way we receive salvation, through faith and grace. Another scripture says it this way.

    1 Thess 3:11-13

    11 Now may our God and Father Himself and Jesus our Lord direct our way to you; 12 and may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you; 13 so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.
    NASU

    As we learn to love others, we are established without blame in holiness. Paul said it a little differently in this verse...

    Eph 4:23-24
    23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
    NASU

    We put on what God has already done. He has already made our inner man righteous and holy. We need to put him on while taking off the flesh.

    IOW, it's all about believing Him. Children believe. Adults question. We are never more holy than when we believe God. Peter spoke of being holy like God is holy. He was quoting food laws when he did that. In the NT, we are told of food to eat and not to eat. Jesus, who was holy said this about food...

    John 4:31-38

    31 Meanwhile the disciples were urging Him, saying, " Rabbi, eat." 32 But He said to them, "I have food to eat that you do not know about." 33 So the disciples were saying to one another, "No one brought Him anything to eat, did he?" 34 Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work. 35 "Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest'? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest. 36 "Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together. 37 "For in this case the saying is true, ' One sows and another reaps.' 38 "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor."
    NASU

    Jesus also said in John that the works of God were that we might believe on Him whom He sent. So belief is paramount. When we believe what Jesus says, and we get a revelation of what Jesus says, then grace comes to us! We then are made holy in that area like Peter said in the first verses I quoted. We are reminded in Ephesians that it is holy to love others. Yet, this scripture (above) in John was when Jesus met with a samaritan woman and the disciples were amazed! They were amazed he would do such a thing! In this area, they did not yet understand Jesus. IOW, he was eating a food they did not know. But the woman he touched, she knew. Jesus told them about the harvest. He did not tell the woman. She got it already. Look what she did after she was touched by the master.

    John 4:28-30
    28 So the woman left her waterpot, and went into the city and said to the men, 29 "Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not the Christ, is it?" 30 They went out of the city, and were coming to Him.
    NASU

    She was born again, made holy before the Lord. Her holiness and love for her people attracted others to her! They heard the word and believed too and became holy. She saw the harvest! She believed Jesus and saw the need. She had a desire and love for others. This is holiness. The disciples, not understanding God's heart, did not see the harvest of Samaritans.

    Peter quoted the food laws as it related to holiness. Jesus spoke of food when he was saying they didn't understand his desire to save samaritans and to do the will of God. Peter got it when he had his dream about "unclean food" concerning Cornelius.

    Believing God, makes us holy. Loving God and man, is holiness. This Samaritan woman was childlike in her faith and was holy. She saw the will of God was to save her city. She did the will of God because she believed. This was something the disciples had not yet understood concerning Gentiles and Jesus verified by saying "I have food to eat that you don't know about". But they eventually did.

    So believing God is not only step 1, but is step 1000 and step 100000000 and so on.

    Grace to you!

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by shepherdsword View Post
    Since God,in his foreknowledge,knew Adam would fall we see that Yeshua is the lamb "slain from the foundation of the world"

    Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Yeshua is not plan B.

    Amen, Jesus is far from plan B. This was the plan all along. Consider our present state just a seed for the future state of man, who in the final and complete stage will finally be made into the image of God.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  14. #14
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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    God knew Adam would fall, yet He gave Adam the freedom to choose between self-independence from God and self-dependence...which is actually a choice based on love. Free will requires a choice, so God devised the plan wherein man could choose, then choose again, whom he would love. We were created to love Abba and to be loved by Him.

    blessings,

    Watchman
    Last edited by Watchman; Jan 11th 2012 at 12:41 AM. Reason: typo
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

  15. #15
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    Re: Jesus, God's plan "B" for the human race

    Quote Originally Posted by Brits Van Wyk View Post
    Something went terribly wrong with God's plan "A" in Adam. Then He had to make a new plan... Plan "B".

    2 Tim 1: 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,


    So, what was the idea with Adam then ?
    Okay. We don't get saved by human works. After that, God's plan is for us to earn treasure in heaven by our works. So, all this no effort business is unBiblical. So is seeing the Fall as a mistake. God orchestrated the Fall of mankind, let alone allowed it and foresaw it. As some have said in this thread, God was trying to create something greater than an Adam. He was trying to create those who would become like the 2nd Adam through seeking and finding, sowing and reaping, loving and doing.

    All this God does it all for us after we are saved stuff denies the point of why He saved us - to create a people zealous for good deeds. Titus 2:14.

    You want to know God's purpose? Look at who He honors and rewards the most: Those who are the most like Christ in their faithful obedience. But Christ did not obey simply by letting God do it all. He learned obedience by what He suffered. Hebrews 5:8.

    Best of blessing to you.
    Love first, ... answer questions ... later ...

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