Self Defense~Is it sin?

[Caleb]

I do not understand.

According to the verses you posted, you are to follow Jesus's example.

The first thing it mentioned is that he did no sin. That means he followed the biblical laws.

No it doesn't.
He did not sin because He did not have a sinful nature.
He was led by the Holy Spirit

Doesn't it mean that you are also to follow the laws?

No, we follow life. Jesus said "I am the Life"

How am I misunderstanding your point?

You don't have the mind of Christ.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

[Fenris]

No, we follow life. Jesus said "I am the Life"

That's meaningless. You either follow rules, or you don't.

You don't have the mind of Christ.

Also, I'm spiritually blind!

[tango]

You obey Jesus and let God protect everyone. You see, your argument assumes God is not able to protect my family. Your argument is also logical fallacy, it's called a false dilemma, it assumes there are only two possibilities when in reality there are more. It's defend them, let God defend them, or they get slaughtered. Your argument makes another assumption, that being that you are able to defend them. Your attempted protection could cause more harm than good.

OK, so when someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night while your wife and daughter are there, would you assume they only have good intentions? Would you merely assume they would just take a few trinkets and get out? Or would you at least prepare to protect your family in case they decided they rather liked the look of your daughter and raped her?

It's all well and good to point out the false dilemma but the simple fact is that burglars have been known to rape and/or murder homeowners. But you conveniently brush all that aside as if it were just some kind of improbable hypothetical.

[Caleb]

The question is "is self-defense a sin"?

If others do the defense, are they sinning?

Sure, God has His Ministers of God... so when they do defense, it's not a sin? Or try this... when they defend others, it's NOT a sin but when they defend themselves... IT IS A SIN??

Then we're back to the original question... is defense a sin?

If the answer is YES, then why isn't it a sin for Ministers of God?

Sin is sin, a position (being a Minister of God) does not change what is sinful. IF something is sinful, then any action of what is designated a sin, WILL BE sin if you do it.

No where in the Bible does it point out what is a sin to us and then say "EXCEPT FOR," if you are in a certain position and then what is sin, isn't a sin for those in a specific position.

Do you understand this and get it now?

I think the OP was 'self-defence'

Is doing the will of God a sin?
Is not doing the will of God a sin?
Is doing your own will a sin in disobedience to Gods will a sin?

If God has called you, is doing God's calling a sin?
If God has not called you, then is it a sin to take up that call?

Saul was called to be a king, not a priest.
To be a king is not a sin, and to be a priest is not a sin, but for king Saul to do the work of a priest was a sin.

Is being a pastor a sin? No
Even if not called, If I should decide today 'hey I think I will be a pastor, and tomorrow I will be an apostle. Have I committed a sin?

God has set up in the world, the office of governments and authorities to deal with doers of evil. Those who occupy that office are called His ministers whilst they are in that office.

Everyone here in this thread does understand that "killing" is not a sin, MURDER is a sin... BIG difference.

God is the giver of all life, and it is His and His alone to decide when to take that life.
If God chooses to set up, appoint and anoint, the offices of governments and authorities to act as His ministers on earth to keep evil doers in check, then that is God's prerogative, and if they govern unjustly then God will judge them accordingly.

Any killing when not called by God, is murder.

[ewq1938]

Any killing when not called by God, is murder.

No. Killing is justified homicide. Murder is unjustified homicide.

[Caleb]

OK, so when someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night while your wife and daughter are there, would you assume they only have good intentions? Would you merely assume they would just take a few trinkets and get out? Or would you at least prepare to protect your family in case they decided they rather liked the look of your daughter and raped her?

It's all well and good to point out the false dilemma but the simple fact is that burglars have been known to rape and/or murder homeowners. But you conveniently brush all that aside as if it were just some kind of improbable hypothetical.

What matter is what does God say, not how someone may stand or fall according to what God says.

Is your truth found and based on what you, I, Butch or anyone else would or would not do in a hypothetical situation?

We can all play hypotheticals.
So let me ask you tango, if the above scenario, robbery, death, rape of daughter or wife was that if the only way to save them, was to verbally deny Jesus as the Christ, what would you do?

Then I would ask you this question:
Is to deny Jesus as the Christ verbally not ok, but then to deny Him by your actions ok?

[t1mlew1s]

So far, we have related self defense to a physical attack of some kind. What if the attack is not physical, but verbal or in some other way demonstrative? Suppose someone is verbally attacking our faith or belief in Christ? Of course we defend this. Just as Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple. There is a thing called righteous indignation isn't there?

[Butch5]

OK, so when someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night while your wife and daughter are there, would you assume they only have good intentions? Would you merely assume they would just take a few trinkets and get out? Or would you at least prepare to protect your family in case they decided they rather liked the look of your daughter and raped her?

It's all well and good to point out the false dilemma but the simple fact is that burglars have been known to rape and/or murder homeowners. But you conveniently brush all that aside as if it were just some kind of improbable hypothetical.

I didn't brush it aside, it's posted time after time. Instead of addressing the issue we get, what if this or what if that. What I do or don't do has no bearing on the OP. The question was is self defense a sin? No matter how I react in a given situation does not change the fact of whether self defense is a sin or not? It is or is not a sin based Solely on Scripture and Scripture is clear, don't resist evil, don't return evil for evil, don't avenge yourselves, etc.

[Butch5]

What matter is what does God say, not how someone may stand or fall according to what God says.

Is your truth found and based on what you, I, Butch or anyone else would or would not do in a hypothetical situation?

We can all play hypotheticals.
So let me ask you tango, if the above scenario, robbery, death, rape of daughter or wife was that if the only way to save them, was to verbally deny Jesus as the Christ, what would you do?

Then I would ask you this question:
Is to deny Jesus as the Christ verbally not ok, but then to deny Him by your actions ok?

That's a great point.

[Caleb]

No. Killing is justified homicide. Murder is unjustified homicide.

If God chooses to show that person mercy like He did with Cane, Moses, David and Saul/Paul, and you kill them, then it is murder.

God said 'Vengeance is mine'

And how is taking someone's life justified, simply because you fear their possible and probable intent?
It is not even life for a life, but life for fear of intent

[fewarechosen]

What matter is what does God say, not how someone may stand or fall according to what God says.

Is your truth found and based on what you, I, Butch or anyone else would or would not do in a hypothetical situation?

We can all play hypotheticals.
So let me ask you tango, if the above scenario, robbery, death, rape of daughter or wife was that if the only way to save them, was to verbally deny Jesus as the Christ, what would you do?

Then I would ask you this question:
Is to deny Jesus as the Christ verbally not ok, but then to deny Him by your actions ok?

reminds me of the girl in columbine.

It quoted witnesses as saying that, when asked whether she believed in God, "Bernall said she believed in Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior, and was shot in the temple."

CNN talkshow host Larry King spoke shortly after the shooting to a friend of Bernall's, Mickie Cain.

Cain said Bernall "completely stood up for God when the killers asked her if there was anyone who had faith in Christ. She spoke up and they shot her for it. And that is the most brave thing anyone could ever do, and I – I want that memory to live on"



that girls doctrine was air tight, all she had to do to defend herself was not speak up. Impressive.
I find myself thinking wow i dont know if i could do that and i pray he doesnt put me through it, but if he does i pray i act right.
she showed me her faith by her works

[Butch5]

reminds me of the girl in columbine.

It quoted witnesses as saying that, when asked whether she believed in God, "Bernall said she believed in Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior, and was shot in the temple."

CNN talkshow host Larry King spoke shortly after the shooting to a friend of Bernall's, Mickie Cain.

Cain said Bernall "completely stood up for God when the killers asked her if there was anyone who had faith in Christ. She spoke up and they shot her for it. And that is the most brave thing anyone could ever do, and I – I want that memory to live on"



that girls doctrine was air tight, all she had to do to defend herself was not speak up. Impressive.

Revelation 6:9(KJV)
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

[Caleb]

reminds me of the girl in columbine.

It quoted witnesses as saying that, when asked whether she believed in God, "Bernall said she believed in Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior, and was shot in the temple."

CNN talkshow host Larry King spoke shortly after the shooting to a friend of Bernall's, Mickie Cain.

Cain said Bernall "completely stood up for God when the killers asked her if there was anyone who had faith in Christ. She spoke up and they shot her for it. And that is the most brave thing anyone could ever do, and I – I want that memory to live on"



that girls doctrine was air tight, all she had to do to defend herself was not speak up. Impressive.
I find myself thinking wow i dont know if i could do that and i pray he doesnt put me through it, but if he does i pray i act right.
she showed me her faith by her works

Hi fewarechosen!

If I were to say that I had the 'true' faith to stand in such a time, then I would fully expect that God had called me to such a stand. If not then it would be faith without works, for faith without works is dead faith.

God will always supply our needs to do His will, but it is His manner today for today, and if tomorrow comes, it will be new manner for that day.

If we know from God's word (not hypotheticals) what God expects of us in such a time, then we will know to look to Him and for His supply.

[Slug1]

I think the OP was 'self-defence'

Is doing the will of God a sin?
Is not doing the will of God a sin?
Is doing your own will a sin in disobedience to Gods will a sin?

If God has called you, is doing God's calling a sin?
If God has not called you, then is it a sin to take up that call?

Saul was called to be a king, not a priest.
To be a king is not a sin, and to be a priest is not a sin, but for king Saul to do the work of a priest was a sin.

Is being a pastor a sin? No
Even if not called, If I should decide today 'hey I think I will be a pastor, and tomorrow I will be an apostle. Have I committed a sin?

God has set up in the world, the office of governments and authorities to deal with doers of evil. Those who occupy that office are called His ministers whilst they are in that office.



God is the giver of all life, and it is His and His alone to decide when to take that life.
If God chooses to set up, appoint and anoint, the offices of governments and authorities to act as His ministers on earth to keep evil doers in check, then that is God's prerogative, and if they govern unjustly then God will judge them accordingly.

Any killing when not called by God, is murder.

You are avoiding the question... is "self-defense a sin?

If it is... then anyone who defends themselves is committing a sin. Don't matter if a person is a Christian, or a non-Christian. Don't matter if one in a Minister of God or not.

If it's a sin... then sin is sin and no matter who defends themselves, is committing a sin.

So what is your answer to the OP's question... is self-defense a sin?

Be a little more direct so we can understand what you are saying...

If you are not gonna answer this directly, then just be honest and say that you are not gonna answer the question.

[ewq1938]

If God chooses to show that person mercy like He did with Cane, Moses, David and Saul/Paul, and you kill them, then it is murder.

If one of them broke into my home to rob, rape or some other unknown crime, it would not be murder to kill them.

And how is taking someone's life justified, simply because you fear their possible and probable intent?

Yes, it's called self defense.