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Thread: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

  1. #136
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by shepherdsword View Post
    I agree with this but I want to throw something out there and see what you think.

    I was in a closed prayer/worship meeting for the staff of the church I was involved with a few years ago. Everyone was praying in tongues out loud and I was a bit uncomfortable,just a little. I didn't have the liberty to speak out myself. As I watched and listened a girl began to sing prophetically in the spirit in an unknown tongue and in english. The guitarist hit some notes that matched exactly with some of the unknown words that the girl was singing. I was a bit amazed as I continued to watch the Holy Spirit began to manifest in a tangible way. He was like a wave of wind that flowed back and forth throughout the room. As he did so it was almost as if He was orchestrating the entire affair like a conductor of a symphony. As the flow went to one side of the room the people on that side began to spontaneously speak out in tongues as the other side was silent. Then it flowed back to the other side and those began to pray out as the other side was silent. It really seemed like an orderly affair controlled by God. There wasn't anyone in the room that was unlearned and all moved in unison. I think that in that particular case the whole thing was done in beautiful order.
    I don't see anything wrong with that. I think Paul's main concern in 1 Corinthians 14 is the fact that unbelievers are in the church and they think the Corinthians are fruitloops.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

  2. #137
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with that. I think Paul's main concern in 1 Corinthians 14 is the fact that unbelievers are in the church and they think the Corinthians are fruitloops.
    Hey, I resemble that remark.

    Fruitloop for God, I mean.
    "You're gonna make a difference when you lay down your life, and in complete submission to God, choose to die with Him in service to other people."
    "Sometimes it concerns me, you know, the number of people that can quote my songs, and-- or they can quote the songs of several different people, but they can't quote the Scriptures."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZLFGZ6zpeI
    Rich Mullins

    For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father

  3. #138
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    So far, there has been a lot of eisegesis and conjecture about this topic, and nobody had adequately addressed the tongues of angels. It cannot simply be stated that there are 2 kinds of tongues and no others without addressing the language(s) of angels. The only cogent comment about them, so far, has been that they are different than human languages...which kinda blows the 2-types hypothesis outta the water.

    W
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

  4. #139
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    So far, there has been a lot of eisegesis and conjecture about this topic, and nobody had adequately addressed the tongues of angels. It cannot simply be stated that there are 2 kinds of tongues and no others without addressing the language(s) of angels. The only cogent comment about them, so far, has been that they are different than human languages...which kinda blows the 2-types hypothesis outta the water.

    W
    Hey W, as for the gift of "different kind"S" of tongues" the kind that the Corinthians were utilizing in an undisciplrled manner was the kind of language that Paul refers to as "of angels". This is also specifically in context with the scriptures where he also says that our spirit is speaking to God. The other kind is the kind manifested in Acts 2, where all listening heard Peter speaking in their native language, not in the language he was actually speaking. Both of these types of tongues operate today in the Body of Christ , by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.

    Since the "language" of angels is what humans are empowered to speak as "tongues" if humans are listening then they will never be able to understand unless interpretation is also manifested.

  5. #140

    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingsdaughter View Post
    On the Day of Pentecost, everyone in that room who was baptized by the Holy Spirit spoke in different tongues, right? I've been saved for 14 years, and I believe, according to the Word of God, that I was born again at that moment and received His Spirit, but I have never spoken in tongues. Why? Is the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" a separate event that takes place? If so, why haven't I been baptized in the Holy Spirit? I do believe that speaking in tongues is real, I guess some could fake it, not that I would know.
    Acts 2
    5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

    tongues = language

    you were sealed by the Holy Spirit when you believed.

    but evidently you're in a Pentecostal/Charismatic denomination whose doctrines and practices in many areas are not in agreement with orthodox (mainline) denominations.

    if you speak any languages other than English, you speak in other "tongues"/languages.

    that was the miracle of Pentecost - the wonderful works of God (The Gospel) was heard in and went forth from Jerusalem in the languages (tongues) spoken by the devout jews gathered :
    "Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians

    personally i'd find another denomination.

  6. #141

    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Why is it important to "speak in tongues"? Is everyone expected to? Not what I read here...

    1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
    1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
    1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
    1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

    1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

    1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

    And then comes 1 Cor 13

    I have never spoken in tongues and frankly, don't expect to. Not my gift. (Not sure what my gift is, actually)

  7. #142
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by John 8:32 View Post
    Why is it important to "speak in tongues"? Is everyone expected to? Not what I read here...

    1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
    1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
    1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
    1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

    1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

    1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

    And then comes 1 Cor 13

    I have never spoken in tongues and frankly, don't expect to. Not my gift. (Not sure what my gift is, actually)
    I agree. Tongues are misunderstood by many. Many insist, based upon the tongues of Pentecost and of Cornelius' household, that they are THE sign of one being whelmed in/by the Holy Spirit. Tongues, though, are a sign for unbelievers; consequently, when Peter (who was struggling with Gentiles being grafted into Christ) had his vision of clean/unclean food reinforced by Cornelius' household speaking in the same manner as occurred on Pentecost, he was convinced of this truth.

    blessings,

    W
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

  8. #143

    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by John 8:32 View Post
    Why is it important to "speak in tongues"? .....I have never spoken in tongues and frankly, don't expect to. Not my gift. (Not sure what my gift is, actually)
    hi John.
    it was very important for the post-Cross, New Testament (Covenant) Plan.
    the New Testament had not been recorded yet. no gospels, letters.
    everything went out orally until the inspired writing was done.

    that was the (prophesied) miracle of Pentecost and the gifts Christ gave when He Ascended.
    they were authoritative; revelatory; inspired; for confirmation of the message and messengers.

    with the New Covenant scriptures complete and our universal gift of the The Holy Spirit, those supernatural/foundational gifts ceased, just as they were intended to:

    1 Corinthians 13:8
    Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

    Paul trained Timothy as a Pastor/Teacher....the only "offices" remaining.

    well, i'm sure you're very gifted, fully equipped by the scriptures and the Spirit to live the Christian life and carry out the Great Commission (even if you're not a pastor/teacher):

    2 Timothy 3
    14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    Pentecostalism is a new movement, and has a faulty foundation. some folks don't read the scriptures in context, understanding passages such as Acts 2 aren't about them.

    zone.

  9. #144
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    hi John.
    it was very important for the post-Cross, New Testament (Covenant) Plan.
    the New Testament had not been recorded yet. no gospels, letters.
    everything went out orally until the inspired writing was done.

    that was the (prophesied) miracle of Pentecost and the gifts Christ gave when He Ascended.
    they were authoritative; revelatory; inspired; for confirmation of the message and messengers.

    with the New Covenant scriptures complete and our universal gift of the The Holy Spirit, those supernatural/foundational gifts ceased, just as they were intended to:

    1 Corinthians 13:8
    Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

    Paul trained Timothy as a Pastor/Teacher....the only "offices" remaining.

    well, i'm sure you're very gifted, fully equipped by the scriptures and the Spirit to live the Christian life and carry out the Great Commission (even if you're not a pastor/teacher):

    2 Timothy 3
    14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    Pentecostalism is a new movement, and has a faulty foundation. some folks don't read the scriptures in context, understanding passages such as Acts 2 aren't about them.

    zone.
    Hi Zone,

    Paul told Timothy to do the work of an evangelist. In 1 Thessalonians, Timothy and Silas are referred to as apostles of Christ. Your idea that the spiritual gifts were temporary is fraught with assumptions. The gifts of apostle, prophet, evangelist, teaching pastors were given for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry UNTIL the body of Christ reaches His full stature...something yet to occur. They are different from the charismata, which are given for edification, encouragement, and exhortation in the church. Further, scriptures tell us how we may be equipped...they do not equip us. Everyone through whom the Holy Spirit manifests Himself is not part of the Pentecostal movement.

    blessings,

    Watchman
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

  10. #145
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    I agree. Tongues are misunderstood by many. Many insist, based upon the tongues of Pentecost and of Cornelius' household, that they are THE sign of one being whelmed in/by the Holy Spirit. Tongues, though, are a sign for unbelievers; consequently, when Peter (who was struggling with Gentiles being grafted into Christ) had his vision of clean/unclean food reinforced by Cornelius' household speaking in the same manner as occurred on Pentecost, he was convinced of this truth.

    blessings,

    W
    W, I once asked the question in another thread.... define "unbelievers".

    You took a shot at the answer and while you were correct, the answer was NOT complete!!

    In this reply here, you covered the portion of the answer that was NOT completed previously.

    "Unbelievers" isn't ONLY about those who are lost and DON'T have Christ in them. Unbelievers INCLUDE... those without "faith" in the TRUTH of the God as well.

    Peter and all with him were BELIEVERS in Christ, but they were also UNbeliever's concerning the "TRUTH" that the Gentiles could be in Christ the same as the Jews could be in Christ.

    Tongues was used by the Holy Spirit because Peter and those with him were UNbelievers!

    So, to define unbelievers... we have to expand that definition beyond those "without" Christ.

    I was an unbeliever of the POWER of God through the Body of Christ today. I was a steadfast cassationist UNTIL, I began to surrender to God and then one day I went from UNbeliever to a BEliever the same as Peter. Except in my case the situation was different but God used the SAME method due to my UNbelief... tongues spoken in my presence.

    The power of the Holy Spirit manifest and being in the presence of God when He is manifesting His power through the Body of Christ... I will never be an UNbeliever again. Peter back then was changed from unbeliever to believer, I was changed from unbeliever to believer.

    Thus... UNbeliever is more than just a person without belief in Christ. It ALSO encompasses unbelief in any truth of God as well.
    Slug1--out

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  11. #146
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    W, I once asked the question in another thread.... define "unbelievers".

    You took a shot at the answer and while you were correct, the answer was NOT complete!!

    In this reply here, you covered the portion of the answer that was NOT completed previously.

    "Unbelievers" isn't ONLY about those who are lost and DON'T have Christ in them. Unbelievers INCLUDE... those without "faith" in the TRUTH of the God as well.

    Peter and all with him were BELIEVERS in Christ, but they were also UNbeliever's concerning the "TRUTH" that the Gentiles could be in Christ the same as the Jews could be in Christ.

    Tongues was used by the Holy Spirit because Peter and those with him were UNbelievers!

    So, to define unbelievers... we have to expand that definition beyond those "without" Christ.

    I was an unbeliever of the POWER of God through the Body of Christ today. I was a steadfast cassationist UNTIL, I began to surrender to God and then one day I went from UNbeliever to a BEliever the same as Peter. Except in my case the situation was different but God used the SAME method due to my UNbelief... tongues spoken in my presence.

    The power of the Holy Spirit manifest and being in the presence of God when He is manifesting His power through the Body of Christ... I will never be an UNbeliever again. Peter back then was changed from unbeliever to believer, I was changed from unbeliever to believer.

    Thus... UNbeliever is more than just a person without belief in Christ. It ALSO encompasses unbelief in any truth of God as well.
    As a dear brother in Christ once said, "Hooah!!" I recall folks saying to Jesus, "We believe...help our unbelief."


    W
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

  12. #147

    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    Hi Zone,

    Paul told Timothy to do the work of an evangelist. In 1 Thessalonians, Timothy and Silas are referred to as apostles of Christ. Your idea that the spiritual gifts were temporary is fraught with assumptions. The gifts of apostle, prophet, evangelist, teaching pastors were given for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry UNTIL the body of Christ reaches His full stature...something yet to occur. They are different from the charismata, which are given for edification, encouragement, and exhortation in the church. Further, scriptures tell us how we may be equipped...they do not equip us. Everyone through whom the Holy Spirit manifests Himself is not part of the Pentecostal movement.

    blessings,

    Watchman
    hi Watchman.
    yes, well, you're a continuationist and i'm a cessationist, and i'm certain we've both been in involved in this discussion plenty.

    ex: if we have authoritative and inspired prophets today, forget the scriptures being our final authority.
    Timothy was living at the same time the supernatural offices and gifts had been given.
    please fast forward to 2012.

    ex: 'tongues' is human languages
    etc
    etc

    "Everyone through whom the Holy Spirit manifests Himself "?
    my pastor preaches from the scriptures and Christ is Glorified, the congregation is blessed and edified, and all continue to be empowered and matured as a result. the Holy Spirit indwells all of us.

    signs are for unbelievers.
    zone.

  13. #148
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    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by zone View Post
    signs are for unbelievers.
    Then why did Cornelius' household speak in tongues? Also, who says the manifestations of the Holy Spirit equals 'signs'?

    W

    BTW, yes, we disagree re: the workings of the Spirit...but that does not make us enemies or adversaries!
    Sunset remembers Eden...sunrise prophesies its return.

  14. #149

    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Except in my case the situation was different but God used the SAME method due to my UNbelief... tongues spoken in my presence.
    i know you weren't addressing me, but if i may, i'll comment anyway.

    your expansion of unbeliever to include christians is unfortunate.

    i don't understand why folks can't accept the historical nature of Acts and the letters. much applies directly to us, but much is historical record of the events of that day.

    what was your "UNbelief" about? Glossolalia?
    when tongues were spoken in your presence, did you hear it in your native language, including your local dialect as the actual Pentecostal miracle was?

    if not, its something else altogether.

  15. #150

    Re: If I've been babtized by the Holy Spirit, why cant I speak in tongues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    Then why did Cornelius' household speak in tongues? Also, who says the manifestations of the Holy Spirit equals 'signs'?
    Acts 10
    44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

    1) it was a sign to the circumcised believers (jews) that "They [gentiles] have received the Holy Spirit just as we have (47)."

    2) Peter had been preaching to the household - "He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead (42)."
    Cornelius and his household with the gift of revelatory languages were now also able to proclaim the wonderful works of God (Acts 2 -The Gospel) to others: remember - no complete or remotely complete scriptures at that time.

    tongues were always a sign for jews.
    Pentecost itself was prophesied for them (Joel) - the Gospel went to Israel first - Pentecost.
    other languages was always a sign of judgment concerning the jews (in this case the Divine Revelation that the Kingdom had been taken from the corrupt leadership and hardened unbelievers, and salvation was now open to all nations: here's an example of tongues as a judgment on jews (though not always to damnation, always as a warning with a promise for the faithful) -

    Isaiah 28
    Who is it he is trying to teach?

    To whom is he explaining his message?

    To children weaned from their milk,

    to those just taken from the breast?

    10For it is:

    Do and do, do and do,

    rule on rule, rule on rulea;

    a little here, a little there.”

    11Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues

    God will speak to this people
    ,

    12to whom he said,

    “This is the resting place, let the weary rest”;

    and, “This is the place of repose”—

    but they would not listen.

    this is a prophesy of the Babylonian captivity....that dreadful punishment was also ultimately for their good (that the remnant would repent - same with Pentecost. recall it was devout jews from all over the known world there who heard the Good News in their native languages).

    only the apostates (mockers/scoffers) didn't understand at Pentecost ("Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine" Acts 2:13)....also, re: Isaiah and prophetic judgment:

    14Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers

    who rule this people in Jerusalem.

    15You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death,

    with the graveb we have made an agreement.

    When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by,

    it cannot touch us,

    for we have made a lie our refuge

    and falsehoodc our hiding place.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    who says the manifestations of the Holy Spirit equals 'signs'?
    well, "manifestations of the Holy Spirit" is a fav Pentecostal/Charismatic term, so i don't know what you mean exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    BTW, yes, we disagree re: the workings of the Spirit...but that does not make us enemies or adversaries!
    no, we don't disagree on the "the workings of the Spirit".
    we disagree on what some denominations call "the workings of the Spirit".

    nope...i don't think we're adversaries, are we?

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