Article: Was Solomon right, that there is nothing new under the sun?

[Sojourner55]

You can view the page at http://bibleforums.org/content.php/1...-under-the-sun

[Faithful One]

Good discussion. Sojo. Today the "barrier" you refer to is not so much language but "attitude".

In that regard, Rutherford, amazingly, did make a comment that turned out to be one of my favorite "that's impossibile" attitudes, namely:
"Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of the atom is talking moonshine". - Ernest Rutherford

Sort of like the garbage man telling you he wouldn't touch that dirty stuff if it really had germs on it.

eh; probably for the better; Had he recognized the power the atom could unleash we may have had to contend with the atom bomb back in the First World War.,... and Europe might not exist today.

..I agree the devil wants to remove all political or social boundaries that may hinder HIS work....

It should be realized that God beat the devil to the punch by re-unifying all nations into one provided they come into Christ.... It is done in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is what Acts 2:1 was all about when the Day of Pentecost came and they all heard each other speaking in thier "own" language....Now "there is neither Jew, nor Greek...nor bond or free, but all are made one in Christ".

The devil, however, is working hard at removing the boundaries on the unsaved WITHOUT the work of Holy Spirit. He wants the world unified in rebellion against God... Its a counterfeit of God's unification through the Spirit....Apparently he realizes all too well....
.... there is nothing new under the sun.

Faithful

[Sojourner55]

Hi Faithful,
Glad you dropped by the old comment zone. I was really tired of hearing nothing but those annoying crickets!
Yeah, even the most brilliant of scientists are short-sighted about "what's impossible," when viewed from one era to the next. I just got to thinking one day that everything man has made, was made from something that has been here all along. And that was a real epiphany. If man had possessed the knowledge thousands of years ago to be able to manipulate the raw materials, today's technology could have existed in primitive times. But that's why God "nipped it in the bud" at Babel. Good to hear from you, my friend. God bless.

[RockyTop]

Is there any question that man can achieve whatever his mind conceives given enough time? God created us in His image which includes creativity. Also,

Genesis 11:6 "The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."

That's a pretty amazing statement from God which sheds light on why God intervened with the tower of Babel.

[Sojourner55]

Is there any question that man can achieve whatever his mind conceives given enough time? God created us in His image which includes creativity. Also,

Genesis 11:6 "The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them."

That's a pretty amazing statement from God which sheds light on why God intervened with the tower of Babel.

Amen, RockyTop. God knew where that unity would lead, and it was nowhere near the time to let it develop. But here we are today: sovereign nations being intentionally sabotaged economically in order to create interdependence on a centralized, global government system. And Instead of a tower, the common goal is "social justice" and nations of the world uniting in an effort to save the world from the imminent horrors of Global Warming, er, I mean Global Change. And just as God said, the collaborative efforts of godless men has taken us into dangerous times, with potential man-made disasters like impending nuclear devastation, cloning, and tampering with deadly viruses. I truly believe we are in the last days, in the era Gabriel spoke of as the time of the fulfillment of the final prophecies:

But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.” (Dan 12:40)

[Ascender]

...there is nothing new under the sun...we are only re-discovering what Adam and Eve and others already knew and they were far in advance of us on several levels...if only the library of Alexandria had not been destroyed...

[IMINXTC]

I'm intrigued by the fact that the buillders of Cheop's pyramid in Egypt, for example, had a working and precise knowledge of not only advanced mathmatical formulas including pi and the royal cubit based upon the radius of the Earth, but true north, the distance to the sun, and the exact procession of the equinoxes thousands of years into the future, long before the land-sat satelite system et al, came to enlighten us.

[Sojourner55]

I'm intrigued by the fact that the buillders of Cheop's pyramid in Egypt, for example, had a working and precise knowledge of not only advanced mathmatical formulas including pi and the royal cubit based upon the radius of the Earth, but true north, the distance to the sun, and the exact procession of the equinoxes thousands of years into the future, long before the land-sat satelite system et al, came to enlighten us.

Remember that Egypt was the first empire following the dispersion of the people after the confusion of languages. Those with the remarkable skills evidenced in the pyramids and the Sphinx, would have lived within a few generations of the tower of babel project. Recall that even before the Flood, Cain's descendants had already pioneered the forging of tools. We don't know what level of scientific knowledge was attained by those who helped build the tower, but obviously, the combined knowledge of all mankind could have grown exponentially in a short time, had God not intervened. The wars between the Hebrews and Canaanites could conceivably have been fought with modern-day weapons, and that to me, is intriguing.

[EbonyRaptor]

Hi Sojourner. Very intriguing interpretation. My understanding of the famous Solomon quote was that it was meant to address the full range of human experience, or more precisely that all human benevolence and depravity have already been seen. I don't disagree with your thinking and in fact think it adds to the texture and depth of Solomon's wisdom, i.e. God's teaching. And isn't that always one of the coolest things during our sojourn - to uncover another pearl of wisdom in an already (thought to be) known passage.

I took a Bible study many years ago that spent some time on the Tower of Babel and I found it to be one of the most instructive lessons in the Bible. I'll have to try to find it a read through it again. Like so many of the lessons that God teaches through His Word, often there are multiple levels. The surface understanding of the story and the allegorical lesson(s) "hidden" inside. The Tower of Babel is just such a lesson.

[Sojourner55]

Hi Sojourner. Very intriguing interpretation. My understanding of the famous Solomon quote was that it was meant to address the full range of human experience, or more precisely that all human benevolence and depravity have already been seen. I don't disagree with your thinking and in fact think it adds to the texture and depth of Solomon's wisdom, i.e. God's teaching. And isn't that always one of the coolest things during our sojourn - to uncover another pearl of wisdom in an already (thought to be) known passage.

I took a Bible study many years ago that spent some time on the Tower of Babel and I found it to be one of the most instructive lessons in the Bible. I'll have to try to find it a read through it again. Like so many of the lessons that God teaches through His Word, often there are multiple levels. The surface understanding of the story and the allegorical lesson(s) "hidden" inside. The Tower of Babel is just such a lesson.

Hi EbonyRaptor, and welcome!
I agree completely. "Nothing new under the sun" takes in a lot of things, the physical being but one aspect/perspective. Solomon (or whoever recorded his words) conveys a sense of his being "jaded" by life, to some extent. The great wisdom, power and wealth that God had blessed him with seems to have given him a king's perspective of "what's the point of it all?" That life is a continuous cycle, in which one generation gives way to the next, which then is then repeated endlessly. I emphasized the physical because it is something tangible that everyone can relate to, regardless of their level of spirituality or Bible knowledge. And because it truly is a thought-provoking premise to know that God's intervention prevented man from moving faster in his scientific knowledge than He wanted him to. Also, as you point out, the whole tower of Babel debacle is one of many types and foreshadows in the Bible, from which the diligent seeker will inevitably be rewarded with great treasures. Thank you for your feedback and comments.

[Redeemed by Grace]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.

Hi Sojourner. Very intriguing interpretation. My understanding of the famous Solomon quote was that it was meant to address the full range of human experience, or more precisely that all human benevolence and depravity have already been seen.

//

This comment is the closest to what I see the understanding to mean. Comparing sorta himself to what God has created, Solomon's searching for satisfaction is empty compared to God. I don't see this applying to inventions per se, but to man's lack of satisfaction away from God.

Thus 2:24, 25

Ecclesiastes 2:20 Therefore I completely despaired of all the fruit of my labor for which I had labored under the sun.
21 When there is a man who has labored with wisdom, knowledge and skill, then he gives his legacy to one who has not labored with them. This too is vanity and a great evil.
22 For what does a man get in all his labor and in his striving with which he labors under the sun?
23 Because all his days his task is painful and grievous; even at night his mind does not rest. This too is vanity.
24 There is nothing better for a man than to eat and drink and tell himself that his labor is good. This also I have seen that it is from the hand of God.
25 For who can eat and who can have enjoyment without Him?
26 For to a person who is good in His sight He has given wisdom and knowledge and joy, while to the sinner He has given the task of gathering and collecting so that he may give to one who is good in God's sight. This too is vanity and striving after wind.

[Kaboose]

Some I'd like to add is remember the angels (sons of God) who fell before the flood event and the nephilim. They were on earth and Angels would have had knowledge far beyond what mankind did and probably taught much of it to mankind causing them to sin with much of it I imagine. They are most likely who are responsible for the great structures we see today left after the flood, like the pyramids all over the world, great buildings with stones we couldn't even move today. We can only guess at the types of knowledge they had because of those fallen angels and nephilim. Probably much of the dark stuff we would call witchcraft, divination, etc is a big part of it. Even after the flood, remember Pharaohs two magicians who summoned snakes, was this a parlor trick? or did they have real knowledge and powers of demonic entities to do the tricks they did? God does warn us of messing with such powers for good reason of course.

[thomasmind]

Brilliant article!

The only thing that matters is our relationship with Christ. All of the technology and science in the end gives us only distractions (as much as I love science). In the end the only thing that maters is our creators happiness, so there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to what really matters.

[Sojourner55]

Brilliant article!

The only thing that matters is our relationship with Christ. All of the technology and science in the end gives us only distractions (as much as I love science). In the end the only thing that maters is our creators happiness, so there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to what really matters.

Thank you thomasmind. Yes, technology can be a very good thing, or very bad--depending on how we use it. The harnessing of electronics can both help spread the Gospel from nation to nation, and send a nuclear-tipped missile from nation to nation. But in the near future, this planet will come under new management, and things will get back to the way God intended it. So, in this era of high-tech marvels and entertainment distractions, each person really needs to get his or her priorities in order.

[Eyelog]

Remember that Egypt was the first empire following the dispersion of the people after the confusion of languages. Those with the remarkable skills evidenced in the pyramids and the Sphinx, would have lived within a few generations of the tower of babel project. Recall that even before the Flood, Cain's descendants had already pioneered the forging of tools. We don't know what level of scientific knowledge was attained by those who helped build the tower, but obviously, the combined knowledge of all mankind could have grown exponentially in a short time, had God not intervened. The wars between the Hebrews and Canaanites could conceivably have been fought with modern-day weapons, and that to me, is intriguing.

Remember further, bros, that Einstein and the primary physicists who engineered the A Bomb in the 40s were ALL pre- and mid-war German dissidents. Indeed, the engineering belying making the ICBM's and Apollo rockets were almost entirely dependent on imported Nazi physicists who had developed the missles for Hitler.

The importation of arcane knowledge to defy God and make war has been going on a very long time.

Meanwhile, the humanists have always hated Christ, and they still see Him as their arch-nemesis. So long as He reigns in His true church, the evil one will be held back. When the One who holds him back is taken out of the way, ...

... Just "Imagine". ... "and no religion too...."

Lenin/Lennon. Not much difference, really, except one's ideology being in charge resulted in millions of Jewish, Christian and other civilian deaths, and the other was gunned down in an alley after having a "Double Fantasy." But what spirit led them each?

Great Article Soj. I appreciate the fact that you are a true Christian THINKER.

God bless!