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Thread: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

  1. #76
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by rejoice44 View Post
    No Temple, no relationship.
    Where is that in the bible?

    Everything concerning the commandments centered around the Temple.
    Everything, really? "Love your neighbor" centers around the temple? What about "Love your God with all your heart"?

    There was always a remnant, even while they were killing the prophets.
    Do those prophets who were killed have names? This is the third time I'm asking you this.

    What, everything I cannot produce evidence for is therefore untrue? "Elijah the liar"?
    Elijah is clearly being melodramatic. "I alone am left". God assures him that there are 8000 others and sends Elijah another mission.

    You can't name a single prophet killed by "the Jews" because there aren't any.




    If the people, the governor, and the High Priest are not Israel, who or what is? Is it a no-fault nation?
    Which people? Which governor? Which High Priest?

    Why do you seek to force the misdeeds of a few on an entire people?
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  2. #77
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by rejoice44 View Post
    According to a recent poll in a major magazine more than 70 percent of Jews in the US do not believe in God.
    According to a recent poll only about 13% of Israeli Jews don't believe in God. Pretty amazing, huh?

    The magazine stated that Santorum was wasting his time going after the Jewish vote as 75 percent of Jews are liberal and vote democratic.
    What does that have to do with the topic at hand? God is a Republican or something?

    Seventy percent of Jews do not believe in God seems unbelievable, but even if it is inaccurate it still list Jews as the highest group of unbelievers. How does this relate to who is Israel?
    Why do you find this so significant? Believing in God is important, but it's only one of the 613 things God commands.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  3. #78
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Not to jump in the middle of this but just because names are not given does not change that they were still killed.

    I think the same thing is happening in the Church today, so don't take me as belittling Israel, or the people.

    People want to hear what they want to hear, and disregard what they do not want to hear, even when the latter is exactly what God is saying to them. This would apply to the prophecies regarding a suffering Messiah when the people only wanted a conquering Messiah to restore the Jerusalem. I do believe the latter is going to happen, but the former has already happened. It was my understanding from study that the people did, or many of them, were indeed expecting the Messiah, knowing that the time was at hand, based on their understanding of prophecies such as Daniel 9. So much that some have decided that there must be two, one coming as suffering, and a second coming as conquering. Not believed that way by all, but the teaching is out there.

    At any rate, off topic, but regarding the rejected, and sometimes killing of prophets

    2Ch 36:16
    But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

    Amo 2:12 "But you gave the Nazirites wine to drink, And commanded the prophets saying, 'Do not prophesy!'

    Jer 2:30 "In vain I have chastened your children; They received no correction. Your sword has devoured your prophets Like a destroying lion.

    1Ki 18:13 Was it not reported to my lord what I did when Jezebel killed the prophets of the LORD, how I hid one hundred men of the LORD's prophets, fifty to a cave, and fed them with bread and water?
    2Ki 9:7 You shall strike down the house of Ahab your master, that I may avenge the blood of My servants the prophets, and the blood of all the servants of the LORD, at the hand of Jezebel.

    Accusing Elijah of being "melodramatic" does not change the fact that he states prophets were being killed. And either God was just taken in by his drama, or there were indeed prophets of God killed and God reacted(2Kings9:7 listed above)

    1Ki 19:10 So he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life."

    And in the book of Jeremiah it is more than clear the people chose the soothing words of false prophets over the corrective/rebuking words of Jeremiah.

    Is it not legend within Rabbinic teachings that Isaiah was killed by Manasseh?




  4. #79
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    Not to jump in the middle of this but just because names are not given does not change that they were still killed
    Usually when someone is charged with murder, a body is necessary. In this case, we have no body and no victim.



    People want to hear what they want to hear, and disregard what they do not want to hear, even when the latter is exactly what God is saying to them.
    Funny how when people say this, they're invariably talking about the Jews. Just saying.
    At any rate, off topic, but regarding the rejected, and sometimes killing of prophets

    2Ch 36:16
    But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

    Amo 2:12 "But you gave the Nazirites wine to drink, And commanded the prophets saying, 'Do not prophesy!'
    Again, rejecting prophets is not the same as killing them.

    Jer 2:30 "In vain I have chastened your children; They received no correction. Your sword has devoured your prophets Like a destroying lion.
    Still no prophets named.
    1Ki 18:13 Was it not reported to my lord what I did when Jezebel killed the prophets of the LORD, how I hid one hundred men of the LORD's prophets, fifty to a cave, and fed them with bread and water?
    2Ki 9:7 You shall strike down the house of Ahab your master, that I may avenge the blood of My servants the prophets, and the blood of all the servants of the LORD, at the hand of Jezebel.
    Jezebel wasn't even Jewish, and certainly was not "Israel". So I fail to understand why her actions reflect poorly on anyone aside from herself.

    Accusing Elijah of being "melodramatic" does not change the fact that he states prophets were being killed. And either God was just taken in by his drama, or there were indeed prophets of God killed and God reacted(2Kings9:7 listed above)

    1Ki 19:10 So he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life."
    Again, this is mere melodrama.

    It doesn't help that your religious dogma depends on this being true.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  5. #80

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    It doesn't help that your religious dogma depends on this being true.
    It's true because the bible is true. It's your religious dogma that causes you to doubt the scriptures.

  6. #81
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It's true because the bible is true.
    Saying that the bible is true and saying that the bible supports your viewpoint are two different things.

    As I've pointed out, the people who "rejected" the prophet's words took those same words and made them into holy writ. Strange form of rejection.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  7. #82

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Saying that the bible is true and saying that the bible supports your viewpoint are two different things.
    I'm not the one claiming the bible isn't saying what it's saying. I accept all it says. Israel did kill it's own prophets.

    Mat_23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

    Mat_23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

  8. #83
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I'm not the one claiming the bible isn't saying what it's saying. I accept all it says. Israel did kill it's own prophets.

    Mat_23:31
    Not in my bible.

    And it still doesn't name any of these murdered prophets. But I guess when it's Jews that stand accused, no evidence is necessary.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  9. #84

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Not in my bible.
    You have been shown evidence from your half of the bible.

    And it still doesn't name any of these murdered prophets. But I guess when it's Jews that stand accused, no evidence is necessary.
    Too bad it's God that makes the accusation.

  10. #85
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    You have been shown evidence from your half of the bible.
    Hmm weirdly enough, no one can tell me a single prophet that "Israel" killed.


    Too bad it's God that makes the accusation.
    In Matthew? Says you.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  11. #86

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Hmm weirdly enough, no one can tell me a single prophet that "Israel" killed.
    God choose not to name them.


    In Matthew? Says you.
    You have been shown OT scriptures as well. You deny OT and NT in favor of your own personal belief.

  12. #87
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    God choose not to name them.
    Or maybe God was being melodramatic too.

    You have been shown OT scriptures as well. You deny OT and NT in favor of your own personal belief.
    Still can't name a single prophet killed by "Israel", huh?
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  13. #88

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Or maybe God was being melodramatic too.
    Close to calling God a liar...

    Still can't name a single prophet killed by "Israel", huh?
    I don't need to. God choose not to name them and I am fine with that. God knows who they are and they certainly know who they are.

  14. #89
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Close to calling God a liar...
    God doesn't use nonliteral language sometimes? Sure He does.

    I don't need to. God choose not to name them and I am fine with that. God knows who they are and they certainly know who they are.
    In other words "The Jews stand accused so I don't need evidence". Sad.

    The Koran also accuses the Jews of killing prophets. Similarly sad.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  15. #90

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    God doesn't use nonliteral language sometimes? Sure He does.
    Whatever you need to justify your belief.

    In other words "The Jews stand accused so I don't need evidence". Sad.
    Take that up with God.

    The Koran also accuses the Jews of killing prophets. Similarly sad.
    I don't care what the Koran says. "You say the same things Muslims say so you're just as bad as they are." *derp*

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