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Thread: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

  1. #106
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Ahab was a bad dude for many reasons. To say that God acted against him only because he killed (unnamed) prophets is really to minimize who he was.
    I am not trying to limit the issues with Ahab, just dealing with the one at the moment.
    I never said that all gentiles did.
    I was just stating my postition
    Then perhaps people should stop accusing an entire ancient people of crimes for which no evidence exists.
    Well, Christians can relate to the "entire" thing
    And again I must point out that the wicked acts of a bad king does not condemn an entire people. Thus far it has also gone unnoticed that Ahab was king of the northern ten tribes only.
    But that does not change the passage that state he indeed did kill prophets. And God did not deal with the Southern and Northern Kingdoms by punishing one for the short comings of the other.
    I don't know what Jewish rabbis you are quoting.
    It doesn't matter, we can stick with what we can or can't quote from the OT

    I notice that Christians love to quote rabbis- but only when it supports some Christian point. When it doesn't, the rabbis are 100% wrong. Now why should that be?
    I don't quote Rabbis that often simply because I have no idea what they said. Since you do not hold to the NT as reliable regarding evidence, my intent was to find resources that you might consider reliable. This is not a doctrinal matter so much as trying to figure out some history, so as I said, it does not matter.

    I don't think there is a subject possible to cover that there are not Rabbis on both sides, and the same for Christians. There will be some on all sides and the issue for the individual is to decide what we believe to be true and what is false....




  2. #107
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    And since I have jumped into the thread which has strayed from the OP title, I will answer that questions

    Did Christ come as Messiah to the Jewish people?.....Yes
    As per Acts 13...no.

    Jesus had to be rejected by the Jews in order for the gospel to be preached to the gentiles.
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

  3. #108

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    As per Acts 13...no.

    Jesus had to be rejected by the Jews in order for the gospel to be preached to the gentiles.
    Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

  4. #109
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    I am not trying to limit the issues with Ahab, just dealing with the one at the moment.
    I don't see it as proof of your point though.

    Well, Christians can relate to the "entire" thing
    Meaning what....?

    But that does not change the passage that state he indeed did kill prophets.
    But why does that condemn an entire people? I do not understand this.
    And God did not deal with the Southern and Northern Kingdoms by punishing one for the short comings of the other.
    But look at what you are doing. You are using the bad actions of a bad king over part of the Jews and "proof" that they all did something. This is not a tenable point.

    It doesn't matter, we can stick with what we can or can't quote from the OT
    So why did you bring it up?

    I don't quote Rabbis that often simply because I have no idea what they said.
    But above you said that you did.

    I don't think there is a subject possible to cover that there are not Rabbis on both sides, and the same for Christians. There will be some on all sides and the issue for the individual is to decide what we believe to be true and what is false....
    And you don't see why I might be skeptical when Christians quote rabbis only when they agree with them?
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

  5. #110
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    How to explain Acts 13?
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

  6. #111
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    How to explain Acts 13?
    More fundamental point: If "The Jews" had accepted Jesus, then he wouldn't have been crucified. But wasn't that the whole reason he was here? To be sacrificed?
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

  7. #112

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    How to explain Acts 13?
    The entire chapter?

  8. #113
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The entire chapter?
    How about verse 46?
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

  9. #114

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    More fundamental point: If "The Jews" had accepted Jesus, then he wouldn't have been crucified. But wasn't that the whole reason he was here? To be sacrificed?
    Yet "if" wouldn't have happened. He came and was killed.

  10. #115

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    How about verse 46?
    Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


    What of it? Like it is written, Jesus was sent to the lost house of Israel, was rejected for the most part, then the gospel was brought to gentiles.

  11. #116
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yet "if" wouldn't have happened.
    In other words, he had to be rejected by the Jews in order to fulfill his mission.
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

  12. #117
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    What of it? Like it is written, Jesus was sent to the lost house of Israel, was rejected for the most part, then the gospel was brought to gentiles.
    Right.

    So if he was accepted by the Jews, the gospel would not have been brought to the gentiles. You see?
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

  13. #118

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    In other words, he had to be rejected by the Jews in order to fulfill his mission.

    Eh, that's kind of a backwards way to word it but his mission would be fulfilled which included being rejected. It's the same concept with Judas. Fulfilling the negative part of a plan does not make it ok, or the person/people heroes.

  14. #119

    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Right.

    So if he was accepted by the Jews, the gospel would not have been brought to the gentiles. You see?
    lol, no. The gospel would have been given to all regardless. The only difference is that you'd be a Christian most likely.

  15. #120
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    Re: Did Christ come as a Messiah to the Jewish People?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Eh, that's kind of a backwards way to word it but his mission would be fulfilled which included being rejected. It's the same concept with Judas. Fulfilling the negative part of a plan does not make it ok, or the person/people heroes.
    I never said it made anyone heroes. I said that part of his mission was to be rejected, and you agree with that.
    For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

    Deuteronomy 4:31

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