What do (or don't) you believe in the Bible?

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I wonder... how many professing believers can present any of the empirical scientific evidences for heliocentricity? And yet... most believe it by proxy of total assent, including YECers and OECers.

I also wonder... how many have considered how crucial heliocentricity is to non-creationist cosmology in general, and evolution in particular?

No heliocentricity? No origin of species, natural selection, etc. Even Theistic Evolution goes away.

It's a weighty issue I was confronted with myself.

[Haramis]

No heliocentricity? No origin of species, natural selection, etc. Even Theistic Evolution goes away.

And so do gravity and physics... Hey, maybe I can fly ^__^

This sounds like a lot of fun
Go Pneuma

[TrustGzus]

I originally made a passing statement. I in no way expect agreement. I've just tried to honestly explain my position of Geo until Helio is presented by more substantial means than it historically has been and currently still is... empirically.

I'm just trying to understand your position more. Not seeking agreement or disagreement.

So are you saying that heliocentrism is concluded empirically and because that is how it is concluded you reject it? Or are you saying you reject it till it is proven empirically? Or are you saying something else?

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I'm just trying to understand your position more. Not seeking agreement or disagreement.

Understood and appreciated. :-)

So are you saying that heliocentrism is concluded empirically and because that is how it is concluded you reject it? Or are you saying you reject it till it is proven empirically? Or are you saying something else?

I'm saying I question the various foundational hypotheses FOR empirical data upon which heliocentrism is based. The mathematics and means of measurement, etc.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

And so do gravity and physics... Hey, maybe I can fly ^__^

This sounds like a lot of fun
Go Pneuma

Naaaaa. You weren't naturally selected to have sufficient chest musculature for flight. I suggest chartering a Cessna Citation. Less turbulence at altitude. :-D

[GitRDunn]

Oh, very likely, yes.

I guess I could just continue taking secular science as the ultimate authority on all things, but I decided about a year ago to begin exploring the empiricism of Scientific Philosophy and I haven't much liked what I'm finding. It's more an effort to divest myself of artificial natural faith than it is to take any position(s); but heliocentricity is THE core of naturalist, evolution-based thought. I refuse to accept it unless/until the empiricism itself is subjected to the same non-assumptive scrutiny applied in other areas.

You and others are welcome to present a thorough case for heliocentricity in another thread. I'm not particularly stupid, so it might take more than you realize. In any case, I found myself building all my understanding according to science with a blind trust in many ways. I've put that aside and yielded it all to the Spirit of Truth. I think most just accept scientific conclusions in a way they don't even accept the Word.

Let God be true and every man a liar. I'm weary of God's inspired Word always riding in the rumble seat when it comes to science. Like I said, if I "orbit" back around to heliocentricity, it won't be because of blind faith in Galileo and modern Atheistic/Agnostic/Apatheistic Scientific Philosophy. It'll be because the empiricism stands the scrutiny others put on scripture. So far... I have more challenges than appropriate answers, so it's Geo until Helio is proven beyond what I've found so far.

I haven't read beyond this point in the thread yet, but here is the thread you asked for: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...47#post2806847

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I haven't read beyond this point in the thread yet, but here is the thread you asked for: http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...47#post2806847

I glanced over there briefly. Not to short circuit the thread, but I was more alluding to someone presenting and substantiating the technical side of heliocentricity such as stellar parallax and aberration, ether drift, redshift formula, and references to experiments like Foucalt's Pendulum and the like.

I'm just too time-limited to initiate and present a pre-emptive scientific apologetic. My invitation was for others to present the fundamental empirical proofs for heliocentricity.

(I'll copy this into the other thread.)

[Alex_C]

I greatly respect (and secretely envy) the people who have no difficulty in believing the whole Bible. Wish I found it all so straightforward.

[Indueseason]

I greatly respect (and secretely envy) the people who have no difficulty in believing the whole Bible. Wish I found it all so straightforward.

Surely if you doubt some of it, you must doubt it all? I mean,it ether must be the inspired word of God, and true, or not. Then the whole lot becomes doubtful I mean we may hold to different understandings of the bible, but we usually agree that it is truth.

blessings to you

[Alex_C]

Surely if you doubt some of it, you must doubt it all? I mean,it ether must be the inspired word of God, and true, or not. Then the whole lot becomes doubtful I mean we may hold to different understandings of the bible, but we usually agree that it is truth.

blessings to you

I didn't mean that I doubted it - just that I find so much of it hard to understand, and at times very paradoxical. Many others don't appear to share my confusion, and just cheerfully accept it without getting wound up about issues and meanings!

[Indueseason]

I didn't mean that I doubted it - just that I find so much of it hard to understand, and at times very paradoxical. Many others don't appear to share my confusion, and just cheerfully accept it without getting wound up about issues and meanings!

Oh I see. I think it's man that makes it confusing and hard to understand. When you read about all different doctrines that come from it, it is confusing. It's best to leave the doctrines and just ask the Lord to help you understand it as He sees fit. If we seek to know the God of the bible, the truth becomes much clearer.

blessings to you

[RollTide21]

Originally Posted by IMINXTC



By surrendering the total veracity of the written word, as delivered, over to the omnicompetence of scientism for interpretation, approval and teaching. By placing the so-called scientist above the Bible as written, transmitted and central to the faith.

The very heart of the Christian Faith is Trust in Jesus Christ as Lord through the Revelation of the Holy Spirit. It doesn't matter if I read the Gospel account in the New Testament or a Believer shares the Gospel with me in a restaurant, my Faith is based on hearing the Word (the WORD, not verses in the Bible), believing, and surrendering myself. It would be a detriment to Christians all over the World if, for some reason, all Bibles were removed, but we would still maintain our Faith because Christ is our foundation, not Scripture.

[Watchman]

This wasn't a choice in the poll, but I don't believe the man-made divisions of chapter and verse should be included in scriptures. They are often more of a distraction than they are an aid. There are likely less than very many who agree, because I don't know of a Bible printed sans the chapter and verse numbering!

W

[jcryan52466]

i took the poll, 77.78% of us who took the poll believe the bible word for word,
as do i. if there were only 1 untruth in gods word, then it would
render it all a lie, in my opinion., and we know better than that!
its un-nerving to look at the poll results though...

[cindylou]

I greatly respect (and secretely envy) the people who have no difficulty in believing the whole Bible. Wish I found it all so straightforward.

It's okay to have doubts every once in awhile and be honest about it.