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Thread: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

  1. #16
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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    Interesting comment DurbanDude. I also see a development towards what you describe. It seems very similar to what happened ahead of the Iraq war, the propaganda war has surely started a long time ago, but it's being ramped up recently. And they'd sure like to get their hands on all that oil and get rid of Ahmadinejad & his rhetoric in one go.

    I think the Iranian army is quite capabable though and I wonder how something like this would pan out in reality. All the Iranians may no be that fond of all aspects of the current regime, but they would dislike an American invasion immensely more... Plus, Iranians are well educated - these are no Pakistani illiterates or Iraqi tribes...

    Do you really think the USA has the capacity proceed with another war now though? I mean, look at their econonomy! The way things are going, the US will soon be nothing but a right wing war machine /some kind of military dictatorship that babbles incessantly about freedom and democracy for others, while civilians around the world are dying at their hands.

    There is very little production taking place there, the state of education is shocking and there is no guaranteed medical care. How much are are Americans going to put up with before they put their feet down and say "enough is enough"? Will they allow their leaders to totally destroy a once great nation? How can Americans support the invasion of countries that they have no information on other than propaganda news, countries they can't even point out on the map, all the while the wealth of the country dwindles away and into the pockets of the military industry, oil companies etc...?

    A tiny elite will soon sit with all the wealth America once had, not caring that the country is finished and China takes over as the super power.And America won't have an ounce of moral superiority over the countries it claims to "liberate".

    Never thought I'd speak out in defense of Iran, but the idea of an invasion there is wrong for so many reasons.
    Much better to let things take their course and Iranians themselves to reform the regime from inside. After all, it's there as the result of a popular revolution, even if things perhaps did not pan out exactly as the revolutionaries envisaged.
    I would only support a war on Iran if it made an outright attack on Israel, and that seems to me extremely unlikely.
    I believe this outright attack will happen, despite it being illogical from an Iranian perspective. We will possibly get diagrams and projections proving that the missile or whatever did come from Iran, just like we got diagrams and projections showing that Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction.

    What you are saying is so true, I also thought I would never defend Iran, but the propaganda war is so one-sided. The strange thing is that Russian and Islamic news channels have a better journalistic ethic than CNN or SkyNews. I don't think the western satellite channels subscribe to eastern news channels, so the west is getting this one-sided perspective that Iran is this war-mongering radical suicidal state.

    I believe this war will be primarily fought by Israel, not Europe or the USA. But I believe the main motivation is not oil, but to remove every enemy of Israel. A turn from dictatorship to democracy is a change from a govt that cannot be influenced to a government that can be influenced by western finance, through lobbyists and politicians on pre-existing payrolls. In this way, the west can influence the Middle east in the future. Jordan and Saudi Arabia are friends with the west. Iraq has been eliminated as a military threat. Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Afghanistan, soon Syria, Egypt have become influencable democracies. Iran will be soon. They have no choice but will all become pro-west moderate Islam democracies. I frankly don't know why people are talking about the tribulation now, as if Islam is strong now and ready to invade Israel. Islam has literally never been weaker.

  2. #17
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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Well maybe if Iran didn't talk about "wiping Israel off the map" and "cutting out the cancer that is Israel", the Israelis wouldn't worry about Iranian nukes.
    .
    That's a misquote by western media. He did not use the word "map" and in Persian they do not have a phrase like that. He clarified that he had been misinterpreted by western media, saying very clearly that he will not attack Israel and has no plans to do so. He is anti-Israel and wishes Zionism (he means the Israeli government) will disappear from earth, and believes Allah will make it happen one day. That is the equivalent of a western politician saying he wishes communism would disappear and believes God will do so. This is a far cry from military ambitions, and that comment was literally misquoted. He is not anti-Jew, he is against the Israel government's decisions regarding Palestinian rights.

    As for proof of previous funding of terrorist organisations, its claimed by media that the USA funded Bin Laden in the past. You have to look at motives and front organisations before you can decide that a certain action deserves a war, or even our condemnation.

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    I think the Iranian army is quite capabable though and I wonder how something like this would pan out in reality. All the Iranians may no be that fond of all aspects of the current regime, but they would dislike an American invasion immensely more...
    No one is talking about "invading" Iran. Just destroying their nuclear program.

    Do you really think the USA has the capacity proceed with another war now though?
    It begs the question, which is worse: America bombing Iran, or Iran going nuclear?

    The way things are going, the US will soon be nothing but a right wing war machine /some kind of military dictatorship that babbles incessantly about freedom and democracy for others, while civilians around the world are dying at their hands.
    heh. And here Obama won the Nobel peace prize. Crazy!
    There is very little production taking place there, the state of education is shocking and there is no guaranteed medical care. How much are are Americans going to put up with before they put their feet down and say "enough is enough"? Will they allow their leaders to totally destroy a once great nation? How can Americans support the invasion of countries that they have no information on other than propaganda news, countries they can't even point out on the map, all the while the wealth of the country dwindles away and into the pockets of the military industry, oil companies etc...?
    Wow, do you write press releases for the Iranian government?

    Never thought I'd speak out in defense of Iran, but the idea of an invasion there is wrong for so many reasons.
    In your 22 posts here you've done little else.


    Much better to let things take their course and Iranians themselves to reform the regime from inside. After all, it's there as the result of a popular revolution, even if things perhaps did not pan out exactly as the revolutionaries envisaged.
    Indeed, this would be the best outcome. The problem is there's a race afoot. Which comes first, an Iranian revolution, or an Iranian atomic bomb? At this point I'm going with the bomb.

    I would only support a war on Iran if it made an outright attack on Israel, and that seems to me extremely unlikely.
    First of all, Hizbullah and Hamas are outright attacking Israel, and they are Iranian proxies. That you buy into the premise that this is not an attack by Iran shows that their mission is successful.

    Secondly, an outright attack by Iran on Israel would probably be a nuke on Tel Aviv. So basically you think that it's ok to defend Jews after a Holocaust but not before. Which is really very sad.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    That's a misquote by western media. He did not use the word "map" and in Persian they do not have a phrase like that. He clarified that he had been misinterpreted by western media, saying very clearly that he will not attack Israel and has no plans to do so. He is anti-Israel and wishes Zionism (he means the Israeli government) will disappear from earth, and believes Allah will make it happen one day. That is the equivalent of a western politician saying he wishes communism would disappear and believes God will do so. This is a far cry from military ambitions, and that comment was literally misquoted. He is not anti-Jew, he is against the Israel government's decisions regarding Palestinian rights.
    How nice that you too make excuses for a genocidal dictator.

    By the way, he also talked about "cutting out the cancer that is Israel". I suppose now you'll tell me that the words "cutting out" and "cancer" also don't exist in Persian, it's all a misquote by the western media.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    I wonder if the videos and what not that are out there that have him saying he wants to destroy Israel are also direct misquotes? Maybe they dubbed his words in?




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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    I wonder if the videos and what not that are out there that have him saying he wants to destroy Israel are also direct misquotes? Maybe they dubbed his words in?
    What can I say, many people seem to like Holocaust memorials more than live Jews. Or "alleged Holocaust", since we're talking about Ahmadinejad here.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    That's a misquote by western media.
    Aaaand lol. Ahmadinejad's own english language website uses the phrase "wiped off the map." That's translated by his government, not the western media.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

  8. #23

    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    That's a misquote by western media. He did not use the word "map" and in Persian they do not have a phrase like that. He clarified that he had been misinterpreted by western media, saying very clearly that he will not attack Israel and has no plans to do so. He is anti-Israel and wishes Zionism (he means the Israeli government) will disappear from earth, and believes Allah will make it happen one day. That is the equivalent of a western politician saying he wishes communism would disappear and believes God will do so. This is a far cry from military ambitions, and that comment was literally misquoted. He is not anti-Jew, he is against the Israel government's decisions regarding Palestinian rights.

    As for proof of previous funding of terrorist organisations, its claimed by media that the USA funded Bin Laden in the past. You have to look at motives and front organisations before you can decide that a certain action deserves a war, or even our condemnation.
    Whether you understand it or not, your response contradicts itself in multiple ways. Being anti-Israel is the same thing as being anti-Jew for they represent and are one in the same. Also, above that is the most obvious point of how accepting Muslim's are of other religions. If they truly are a follower, they are instructed to convert all people to Islam and put to death those who will not.

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    I wonder if the videos and what not that are out there that have him saying he wants to destroy Israel are also direct misquotes? Maybe they dubbed his words in?
    Can you post a link to a video clip in which Ahmadinejad explicitly says that Iran will attack Israel with nukes?

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    ....
    You made quite a number of incorrect statements both about me and in response to what I said. However based on your record I can see that this is a topic that you would literally argue to the death, so I will leave you to rule this thread supreme...! But I've got family connections in Israel and if I believed Iran was a genuine threat to the lives of my relatives I would take a different position. As I see it, America's meddling is the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East.

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by RockyTop View Post
    . Being anti-Israel is the same thing as being anti-Jew for they represent and are one in the same.
    Well I thought I already explained the difference. Ahmadinejad is against the state of Israel, and all the settlers coming from all over the world to populate Israel, and the treatment of Palestinians. But he is not anti-Jew and their own Jews are treated very well with complete racial and religious tolerance. He is not against the Jews in the Israel region too, but is against the majority of Palestinians being denied the right to vote in the entire Israel region which he sees as originally theirs and not Jews. He seems to always express himself very carefully, wishing for the demise of the Israeli government, and believing Allah will cause it, but consistently never showing hatred for Jews in general.

    This is definitely no incitement to war, to wish a government would fall. I wish my corrupt government will fall, and I really believe it will happen with God's blessing. And I wish the North Korean government will fall. This does not mean I wish even one Korean or South African dead.

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    But I've got family connections in Israel and if I believed Iran was a genuine threat to the lives of my relatives I would take a different position.
    How nice. I also have, as you say "family connections" in Israel. And I worry about them a lot.

    As I see it, America's meddling is the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East.
    Yes, I noticed.

    If only America adopted a "hands off" policy in the middle east, the Sunni and Shia would get along again, Muslims would embrace Christians, the Syrian government would stop murdering civilians, Egypt would elect liberal democrats instead of the Muslim Brotherhood, Iran would stop building nukes, etc etc etc...

    Most of what's wrong in the middle east has nothing to do with either America or Israel.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
    Aaaand lol. Ahmadinejad's own english language website uses the phrase "wiped off the map." That's translated by his government, not the western media.
    Even so, he is not talking about a genocide here, but a wish for a new Palestinian state, ie the fall of the Israeli government. If a government official in the USA wishes that the North Korean government will fall and be absorbed into South Korea, is this incitement to genocide? This is the type of comment he consistently makes obviously from his pro-Palestinian point of view:

    (Address to the United Nations General Assembly)
    September 18, 2008
    "We have no problems with these people but they should leave the occupied territories, leave them to their genuine owners and get back to their countries and homes where they originally came from."

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    But he is not anti-Jew
    Oh, "anti Zionists" never are. They all love Jews, they will tell you. They just don't think that Jews should have their own country.

    Now, why Jews alone of all ethnic groups should be denied this right, they will not say.
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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    Re: Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Even so, he is not talking about a genocide here,
    His proxies do.


    Hamas's charter calls for the destruction of "the Zionist entity" via "Jihad".

    Hezbullah's leader said that he wants all the Jews in the world to move to Israel. It will be easier to kill them all that way, he said.

    but a wish for a new Palestinian state, ie the fall of the Israeli government.
    Yes, yes, he talks about how the Palestinians should be allowed to vote in Israeli elections. Of course, Iranians can't even vote in Iranian elections, the whole process is a sham.


    (Address to the United Nations General Assembly)
    September 18, 2008
    "We have no problems with these people but they should leave the occupied territories, leave them to their genuine owners and get back to their countries and homes where they originally came from."
    He means the Jews should return to say, Europe. Not Tel Aviv or Haifa. Of course, as I mentioned above, that might make his proxy Hizbullah unhappy because now they have to go abroad to kill all the Jews...
    As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit who is on you, and My words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouth of your children, or from the mouth of your children's children, from now on and forever," says the LORD.


    Isaiah 59:21

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