Conflict Between Israel and Iran, a prelude to the 70th week of Daniel?

[quiet dove]

If the leader of a country declared they wanted to wipe you off the map, and they were developing nuclear weapons, would you be nuanced?

This is what is so hard to grasp, they have declared the US the big Satan and Israel the little Satan....seems they really don't like the West either....but it also seems this tidbit of information just ges right by most folks. If anything we should be glad that Israel has the guts to stand their ground because they do us all a favor

The lack of logic with Iranian leadership should be very obvious, they want the US destroyed, and want the US money...so how exactly does a destroyed nation send anyone any money.

[quiet dove]

In yesterdays news



I'm not really sure why this is news. Iran and it's terrorist proxies have launched plenty of attacks over the years without the slightest bit of provocation from Israel. Heck, last week alone there were three attempted bombings of Israeli embassies by Iran or her proxies.

Aren't bombs being slung over toward Israel, from one source or another, on a pretty regular basis?

[Fenris]

Aren't bombs being slung over toward Israel, from one source or another, on a pretty regular basis?

Yep.

For example, December 2011 saw 28 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza. August saw 155 rockets.

What other country would tolerate a daily violation of it's sovereignty like that? What other nation would be expected to?

[Fenris]

And in today's news-

Azerbaijan has arrested two men suspected of plotting to attack prominent foreigners in the former Soviet republic.

It is alleged they were aided by a third individual, an Iranian who had links with Iran’s intelligence.

It is reported he helped smuggle in weapons including sniper rifles, handguns and explosive devices.

Azerbaijan’s National Security Ministry said the men’s targets included Israel’s ambassador.

Although Azerbaijan is a secular Muslim country its home to 9,000 Jews and has friendly ties with Israel and America.

In the past the Azeri authorities say they’ve prevented car bomb attacks near the Israeli, US and British embassies – all allegedly involving agents from neighbouring Iran.

This is the fourth Iranian attempt in the last two weeks to kill Israeli diplomats.

[quiet dove]

Yep.

For example, December 2011 saw 28 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza. August saw 155 rockets.

What other country would tolerate a daily violation of it's sovereignty like that? What other nation would be expected to?

Fenris, Idk, none of course but Idk regarding the mentality...and the whole fence thing that everyone had such an uproar over and now other nations looking at, or maybe they have, hired the same companies to build them a fence.

No nation would be expected to or would tolerate as Israel is being expected to and doing. And it boggles the mind that so many think it is right. It truly just boggles the mind...

[Fenris]

For those who still have their doubts, this is from Iran's own official news agency:

Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel "Mostafa's Ultimate Goal"

"Mostafa's ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel," Fatemeh Bolouri Kashani told FNA on Tuesday.

Bolouri Kashani also underlined that her spouse loved any resistance figure in his life who was willing to fight the Zionist regime and supported the rights of the oppressed Palestinian nation.

Iran's 32-year-old Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, a chemistry professor and a deputy director of commerce at Natanz uranium enrichment facility, was assassinated during the morning rush-hour in the capital early January. His driver was also killed in the terrorist attack.

"Nuclear power". Sure.

[Hannah]

I get really upset seeing how prejudiced and brainwashed lots of people of a certain nationality are, without any humility or perspective that other nations and cultures don't see the world in the same way that you do!

Pride cometh before fall is all I say, and mark my word, that will happen to your country very soon, the way your are going! And by the time that happens you will have lost most of your friends and allies. Since not even those are treated with respect, as Wikileaks revealed in no uncertain terms.

To people of that nationality, wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late - seek out some international news sources and don't just swallow the mindless propaganda on your commercial news channels.
And learn some geography!!

As unpleasant and hysterical as Ahmadinejad & co's rhetoric is, it is actually getting more true every year, as more and more countries are invaded or manipulated. Maybe it's not Satan who's behind this, as Ahmadinejad claims, but imperialism and greed certainly is.

Anyone who honestly believes that the USA *needs* to invade Iran for any reason has been well and truly conned.

end rant.

[the rookie]

Are you ranting about Islamic nations and Arab nationalities? Because everything you've posted here seems to fit that description.

Whichever "nationality" you're speaking of, facts would suit your post better, otherwise, this post is just sentiment - and nasty, arrogant sentiment at that.

[amazzin]

Hanna please do not use this forum to knock other democratic elected countries. You are welcome to post at other sites that tolerate this type of posting priviledges.

[Hannah]

So there is really only one acceptable opinion to express in this debate? Is that what you are saying?

I am not "with you" so I must be "with the terrorists". Clever logic... Big "w" grin.
Or perhaps in your view, there is only one acceptable worldview for Christians?

I mistakenly thought that this was a debate and that a perspective other than the majority perspective was welcome, or perhaps a perspective from another part of the world than where the majority of the debaters are from.

[Indueseason]

Hannah, I believe this forum allows us to hold to our own opinions, but what it doesn't allow is members to accuse other members of being brainwashed, because they hold an opinion different from yours. I believe you have been too general in your comments. Not every American Christian supports war with Iran, nor do they all fully support national Israel. Each Christian is led by their own view of scripture, and they are genuinely trying to do the right thing.Bashing them with a big verbal stick, will not help get your point across. We can love our brothers and sister in Christ, even while holding to a different point of view. That's what Christ would ask of us.

I do believe that the media, in many cases, creates a moral panic by the way it delivers the news. It is not only an American thing, as I see it even here in the U.K. We would all do well to check our sources to get a clearer picture of what's going on, but that's up to each person to decide if they should do that. I don't think we can choose to trust one secular media over another, because they all bend the truth to suit themselves.All we can do is listen to the different views, and let the Lord lead us in the truth.

blessings to you

[Hannah]

Thanks for the response, Indueseason.

The thing that got me annoyed was that a certain user made accusations towards me earlier in the thread, for just expressing an opinion. He was so fierce and dominating in the debate, that I felt there was no real point in participating since I would end up in an endless flame war. This is what got me started on the wrong side here.

Checking in on the thread a week later I noticed prejudice of monumental proportions that I found to be uninformed and biased.
I have visited both these countries and think a more nuanced view is called for.

Also... another war in the Middle East, supposedly to prevent bad people from doing bad things.. Started by those who would like to make that they are the "good" guys. So incredibly hollow.

With that said, I think it is best I stay away from this thread, because I doubt anyone shares my opinions here, or is even interested in hearing them. I'd just end up saying something un-Christian...

[shepherdsword]

Thanks for the response, Indueseason.

The thing that got me annoyed was that a certain user made accusations towards me earlier in the thread, for just expressing an opinion. He was so fierce and dominating in the debate, that I felt there was no real point in participating since I would end up in an endless flame war. This is what got me started on the wrong side here.

Checking in on the thread a week later I noticed prejudice of monumental proportions that I found to be uninformed and biased.
I have visited both these countries and think a more nuanced view is called for.

Also... another war in the Middle East, supposedly to prevent bad people from doing bad things.. Started by those who would like to make that they are the "good" guys. So incredibly hollow.

With that said, I think it is best I stay away from this thread, because I doubt anyone shares my opinions here, or is even interested in hearing them. I'd just end up saying something un-Christian...

It is good to have passion about issues. The downside to that is we often overreact and make broad sweeping judgments that resort to stereotypes and false categorizations. I can assure you that all Americans are not brainwashed and stupid spoiled brats that drink the media kool-aid. You are very young in the Lord so we forgive you for making a mistake that even mature believers sometimes fall into.

Also keep in mind that even international news sources have a biased agenda

[slightlypuzzled]

Thanks for the response, Indueseason.

The thing that got me annoyed was that a certain user made

accusations towards me earlier in the thread, for just expressing an

opinion. He was so fierce and dominating in the debate, that I felt

there was no real point in participating since I would end up in an

endless flame war. This is what got me started on the wrong side

here.

Checking in on the thread a week later I noticed prejudice of

monumental proportions that I found to be uninformed and biased.
I have visited both these countries and think a more nuanced view is

called for.

Also... another war in the Middle East, supposedly to prevent bad

people from doing bad things.. Started by those who would like to

make that they are the "good" guys. So incredibly hollow.

With that said, I think it is best I stay away from this thread,

because I doubt anyone shares my opinions here, or is even

interested in hearing them. I'd just end up saying something un-

Christian...

I can understand that frustration, most, not all, 'evangelical'

Christians let their biblical eschatology dictate their views on Israel

versus the Muslim States. I am not a Premillianialist in my

eschatology. I do not accept all that the Israeli government does as

correct. I believe they have to take precautions, because the

overwhelming Moslem attitude to Israel has been 'to wipe it off the

face of the earth'; that has been a political and, to a large extent

cultural, reality among the majority of Moslem nations since

Israel's creation by UN mandate in 1947, and the resulting partition.
However, I am old enough to remember the very scanty reports

that came out in 1967 about the Israeli attack on the intelligence

ship 'USS Liberty' just prior to the Arab-Israeli war in that year.

http://www.gtr5.com/

That being said, I am not blind to the historical, geographical, and

geopolitical situations that have forced Israel to be in a constant of

preparedness. Saber rattling by Moslem leaders, religious and

political, has been a staple of most Moslem activity for almost three

quarters of a century.
The present leader of Iran is no different. He ratchets up the

rhetoric to hide his own short comings, and huge problems, within

his own country. The geopolitical consequences of oil usage and

consumption make his leadership in Iran dicey at the best. This

present US government has neither the will, the strength, nor the

intelligence to adequately deal with Iran in both their present

conditions. Given the present political conditions in Egypt, Syria,

and possible Libya, the possibility of a number of full scale wars in

the mid-east, much like Southeast Asia in the seventies, just makes

for a very bleak picture.
Europe itself is dealing with a Moslem culture that would like to

take more power, but this goes back more than a Millenia when the

newly emerging Moslem religion swept across the Mid-East,

Northern Africa, and parts of Eastern Europe; the latest being the

Moslem wars in Eastern Europe after the final fall of

Constantinople. The Ottoman the last major incursion began with

the rise of the Ottoman Turks in the fourteenth century, finally fell

completely in the mid 1920's.

http://naqshbandi.org/ottomans/maps/

In more modern times, the events of 9/11/2001 in America helped

to polarize many Americans; though Moslem hijackings and

terrorist activities had been around since the seventies. The videos

of many Moslem's rejoicing after the destruction of 9/11 will be

hard for many to forget. I remember the Moslem riots and burnings

in France just six or seven years ago. I doubt if Western culture can

ever really exist side by side with Moslem culture.
All that I have recounted is really just 'the world' doing it's own

thing as we Christians live and follow our Lord in our daily lives.

The problem is, we sometimes let all that 'stuff' bleed over into our

lives, and then we react as purely 'human', and that can be a

problem sometimes.

[the rookie]

So there is really only one acceptable opinion to express in this debate? Is that what you are saying?

I am not "with you" so I must be "with the terrorists". Clever logic... Big "w" grin.
Or perhaps in your view, there is only one acceptable worldview for Christians?

I mistakenly thought that this was a debate and that a perspective other than the majority perspective was welcome, or perhaps a perspective from another part of the world than where the majority of the debaters are from.

Your views and perspectives are welcome. But yes, there is only one acceptable worldview for Christians. Not saying that it's mine, or "the Bibleforums view" - but it's not multiple choice, either. We're all working for the same Boss, and His worldview is the one we are all subject to and reaching to lay hold of. We can discuss and debate amongst ourselves (because Jesus is so humble, patient, and longsuffering towards us) as to what that worldview is, but we cannot imagine that there are multiple ones related to our personal cultural context.

My point isn't that you are "with the terrorists". My point is that what you said below could be said of radical Islamic Arabs as much as one could say it about whomever it is you were talking about. In fact, if a believer on this board said what you said below about Islamic Arabs, you would probably "rant" about it in disgust.

I get really upset seeing how prejudiced and brainwashed lots of people of a certain nationality are, without any humility or perspective that other nations and cultures don't see the world in the same way that you do!

Pride cometh before fall is all I say, and mark my word, that will happen to your country very soon, the way your are going! And by the time that happens you will have lost most of your friends and allies. Since not even those are treated with respect, as Wikileaks revealed in no uncertain terms.

To people of that nationality, wake up and smell the coffee before it is too late - seek out some international news sources and don't just swallow the mindless propaganda on your commercial news channels.
And learn some geography!!

As unpleasant and hysterical as Ahmadinejad & co's rhetoric is, it is actually getting more true every year, as more and more countries are invaded or manipulated. Maybe it's not Satan who's behind this, as Ahmadinejad claims, but imperialism and greed certainly is.

Anyone who honestly believes that the USA *needs* to invade Iran for any reason has been well and truly conned.

end rant.

I think that we tend to imagine we possess more information than we actually have in formulating our opinions. That, by definition, is arrogance. We can discuss and debate to our heart's content, but that means that we have to swallow the pill of correction that comes from another when we overstep our bounds in the discussion. To say it more "American": "If you're going to dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it."

That was my main point. "A soft answer turns away wrath" - yet you were heating up the rhetoric, not dialing it down. That's a human problem, not a European one. Therefore, I'm addressing you as a sister in the Lord, not as someone from the "minority viewpoint".