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Thread: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

  1. #76
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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    But I don't look at that way tho. I'm not the one who thinks that once one is cast into the LOF. that they're forever conscience.
    I know that but I'm not going to discuss that issue in this thread.

    I realize you don't see the fire as being literal. But you do say they would feel regret. And besides, we have this passage to consider.

    Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    I would think this is meaning the LOF.
    It is.
    I would think wailing would be the same thing as crying.
    It is. But the context is different than the context of Rev 21:4. The context of Rev 21:4 is in terms of there being no more physical death and no more people on the earth being in pain, crying and so on. Notice it says the former things are passed away. There is no crying in the LOF fire now as no one has been cast there yet. So, the former things include physical death, physical pain, crying and sorrow that people experience in this lifetime on the earth. It has nothing to do with people being in the lake of fire.

    The point is, obviously the context of Revelation 21:4 is not applicable to Matthew 13:50.
    Right. I guess I didn't need to point that out to you, after all.

    The point being...since there is clearly an exception to the no more crying, then there can be an exception for the one's outside of the city. IOW, just like I've been saying, Revelation 21:4 is meaning in relation to those inside of the city, not outside of the city.
    Of course, but those outside the city are said to be in the lake of fire. But you somehow have them roaming around on the new earth. I just don't get that at all.

    Something else that comes to mind. Since Scripture clearly teaches there will be a sun forever,
    I disagree. I believe it teaches that the sun would endure through all generations (Psalm 72:5) which means it will endure until the end of the age but at that point it will cease to exist. The following says "the sun shall be no more".

    Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

    then how do you explain there is no need for the sun inside of the city, if this is not a literal city, so to speak?
    The light we have at that point will come directly from God Himself. God Himself will light everything up on the new earth so there will be no need for the sun.

    I'm sensing you don't see it being a literal city,
    Tell me how a literal earthly city could be "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9).

    but it has to be if there is no need for the sun there, yet there is still a sun.
    No, it does not have to be a literal city unless you can explain how a literal earthly city can be "the bride, the Lamb's wife" rather than the church being "the bride, the Lamb's wife". We will inherit the entire new earth and we will not have any need for the sun because "the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof".

    What I'm starting to wonder tho, and I'm probably the only person in the entire world who sees this as a possibility
    Probably. Or maybe there's a few others but that's about it.

    but I'm beginning to wonder that perhaps life and death continues outside of the city forever.
    Please tell me why that would be the case and where that is taught in scripture? Would the gospel need to be preached to people forever and people would be getting saved forever? What about those who were not saved? Would they eventually be cast into the lake of fire? If so where does scripture speak of that? I'm not sure how you come up with these things.

    Otherwise, as an example, what is the need for the sun, since it's clearly not needed inside the city?
    There will be no need for the sun on the new earth. The glory of God and the Lamb will provide all the light we need and as I've pointed out scripture teaches that only the righteous will inherit the new earth. This idea of the wicked living on the new earth cannot be supported by scripture.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    It's not a literal earthly city for one thing.
    Let's see if that's true then. The following addresses some of your other points as well, since you indicated that it made sense God would do away with the sun at that point.

    Psalms 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah


    Psalms 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

    Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.


    Let's look at these a bit closer.

    Psalms 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah

    If the sun nor the moon endures forever, then neither does his seed endure forever, nor his throne.

    Psalms 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

    Once the moon is gone tho, out goes the the righteous flourishing, and the abundance of peace with it.

    Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.


    No more sun, well that means His name shall NOT endure for ever, which is the exact opposite of what this verse said.

    I believe I have provided ample Scriptures that clearly indicate there will be a sun and a moon forever. With this in mind, let's go over to Rev 21 again, and this non literal city as call it.

    Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    What you now have to do is logically explain that if this is not a literal enclosed city that has a top to it so to speak, how is that they avoid direct contact with the sun and the moon that is still here forever, according to other Scriptures? The only way it can be logically explained, this has to be an enclosed city of some kind sitting at some literal location on the earth. My guess would be Jerusalem and pretty much all of the middle east is where it would be sitting. It certainly explains a lot of OT prophecies where we're told Jesus will rule the earth from Jerusalem, as in literally.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Let's see if that's true then. The following addresses some of your other points as well, since you indicated that it made sense God would do away with the sun at that point.
    It would be nice if you first gave your understanding of the passage I quoted (Isaiah 60:19-20) before expecting me to address these other passages so could you please do that? It's not reasonable to expect me to address the passages you use to support your view without you doing the same with the passages I use to support my view.

    I believe I have provided ample Scriptures that clearly indicate there will be a sun and a moon forever.
    Without saying a word about Isaiah 60:19-20. Why is that?

    With this in mind, let's go over to Rev 21 again, and this non literal city as call it.

    Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    What you now have to do is logically explain that if this is not a literal enclosed city that has a top to it so to speak, how is that they avoid direct contact with the sun and the moon that is still here forever, according to other Scriptures? The only way it can be logically explained, this has to be an enclosed city of some kind sitting at some literal location on the earth. My guess would be Jerusalem and pretty much all of the middle east is where it would be sitting. It certainly explains a lot of OT prophecies where we're told Jesus will rule the earth from Jerusalem, as in literally.
    Again, you expect me to address what you said here despite you not specifically addressing what I said. That is not reasonable and not how debates are supposed to work. I pointed out that it calls the new Jerusalem "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9). Can you please explain how an "enclosed city of some kind sitting at some literal location on the earth" could be "the bride, the Lamb's wife"? I think you are missing that the the bride of Christ is being described figuratively in Revelation 21 and not literally.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    It would be nice if you first gave your understanding of the passage I quoted (Isaiah 60:19-20) before expecting me to address these other passages so could you please do that? It's not reasonable to expect me to address the passages you use to support your view without you doing the same with the passages I use to support my view.


    I apologize, Eric. So let me try it like this then. My understanding of that passage won't be real detailed or anything, but maybe it will show why I would come to my conclusions.

    Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
    20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.


    I simply see it meaning inside of this city like I've been trying to explain. This couldn't be meaning worldwide because we also have another passage to consider.

    Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
    36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.


    Notice what verse 36 clearly states... If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. What ordinances? "which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night." Those ordinances. That's why we have to understand Rev 21 and Isaiah 60:19-20 as meaning this city, and not the entire earth. If there is no more sun nor moon nor stars, then those ordinances departed from before the LORD, which would be impossible, since that would make the latter part of verse 36 true...then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever....which isn't true tho.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I apologize, Eric. So let me try it like this then. My understanding of that passage won't be real detailed or anything, but maybe it will show why I would come to my conclusions.

    Isaiah 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
    20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.


    I simply see it meaning inside of this city like I've been trying to explain. This couldn't be meaning worldwide because we also have another passage to consider.

    Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
    36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.


    Notice what verse 36 clearly states... If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. What ordinances? "which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night." Those ordinances. That's why we have to understand Rev 21 and Isaiah 60:19-20 as meaning this city, and not the entire earth. If there is no more sun nor moon nor stars, then those ordinances departed from before the LORD, which would be impossible, since that would make the latter part of verse 36 true...then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever....which isn't true tho.
    Okay, thanks for addressing it. I still disagree, but I appreciate you taking the time to address that passage. Just because those address Israel in particular doesn't mean it can't apply to the whole world when it's speaking of the sun no longer giving them light. If it no longer gives them light then why is that? Seems to me the sun could not exist for that to be the case, even just in Israel. Anyway, I'll address your other post briefly (don't have much time).

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Let's see if that's true then. The following addresses some of your other points as well, since you indicated that it made sense God would do away with the sun at that point.

    Psalms 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah


    Psalms 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

    Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.


    Let's look at these a bit closer.

    Psalms 89:36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
    37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah

    If the sun nor the moon endures forever, then neither does his seed endure forever, nor his throne.

    Psalms 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

    Once the moon is gone tho, out goes the the righteous flourishing, and the abundance of peace with it.

    Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
    I did address Psalm 72 briefly in my other post. I said "I believe it teaches that the sun would endure through all generations (Psalm 72:5) which means it will endure until the end of the age but at that point it will cease to exist.". I don't believe "forever" includes all eternity in those verses but instead refers to all of time up until the end of time or end of the age. That doesn't mean His name won't endure even throughout eternity but that wasn't the context of those verses. It's similar to how Jesus told the disciple He would be with them always even until the end of the age (Matt 28:20). Well, He will be with them even after the end of the age but that wasn't His point there. So "always" doesn't include eternity in that context but includes all of time until the end of the age.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    I did address Psalm 72 briefly in my other post. I said "I believe it teaches that the sun would endure through all generations (Psalm 72:5) which means it will endure until the end of the age but at that point it will cease to exist.". I don't believe "forever" includes all eternity in those verses but instead refers to all of time up until the end of time or end of the age. That doesn't mean His name won't endure even throughout eternity but that wasn't the context of those verses. It's similar to how Jesus told the disciple He would be with them always even until the end of the age (Matt 28:20). Well, He will be with them even after the end of the age but that wasn't His point there. So "always" doesn't include eternity in that context but includes all of time until the end of the age.


    I just started a thread on this very thing in BC. Since a lot of folks in BC don't post much in ETC, I decided to make the thread there, in order to get some more opinions on this. Here's a link to the thread if you find any more interest in it and wish to discuss it further.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by wesand24 View Post
    Also, how do Amils interpret Zech. 14 which seems to to teach that present Jerusalem will exist after the Day of the Lord and the feast of tabernacles being celebrated, seemingly on this earth, by the nations. And the apparent defiance by some nations (Egypt) not participating in this feast. If this is a time of righteousness how can there be this defiance. Many questions concerning this chapter Premil seems to answer, what about Amil? Can you be a futurist and be Amil concerning Revelation, aren't many Amils preterist?

    There's more to this than just Zecharaih 14. But, let us start there, okay?

    Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

    9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    And, let us also look at Zechariah 13:

    1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

    2And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.


    Now, let us go to John 4. You may think I am scattered, but bear with me, please.

    6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

    7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

    8 (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

    9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

    10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.


    And now, to tie this all together, let us go to Revealtion 22:

    Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.


    The living waters are in reference to Jesus hanging on the cross. After He died, the Roman soldier pierced His side, and forthwith came blood and water. I believe that this water that came from Jesus, was a fulfillment of Zechariah 13 and 14.

  9. #84

    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    To the OP:

    The day of the Lord will begin suddenly with His wrath and judgment against an unbelieving world .... there will be no warning [Matthew 24:36-39; 1Thessalonians 5:1-9]

    His period of judgment will last for 2550 days and then He will appear on the earth to rule over a kingdom of mortals for 1000 years; His immortal church will rule with Him over the same [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46; Revelation 1:7; 20:4]

    Another human rebellion against Him will occur at the end of the 1000 years and He will quickly destroy the rebels and judge all of the spirits of the unbelieving human dead from the beginning of human creation who refused Him [Revelation 20:7-15]

    He will renovate the present heavens and earth with fire and restore them to the original creation for eternity [2Peter 3:7-10; Revelation 21]

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    To the OP:

    The day of the Lord will begin suddenly with His wrath and judgment against an unbelieving world .... there will be no warning [Matthew 24:36-39; 1Thessalonians 5:1-9]

    His period of judgment will last for 2550 days and then He will appear on the earth to rule over a kingdom of mortals for 1000 years; His immortal church will rule with Him over the same [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46; Revelation 1:7; 20:4]

    Another human rebellion against Him will occur at the end of the 1000 years and He will quickly destroy the rebels and judge all of the spirits of the unbelieving human dead from the beginning of human creation who refused Him [Revelation 20:7-15]

    He will renovate the present heavens and earth with fire and restore them to the original creation for eternity
    [2Peter 3:7-10; Revelation 21]
    Buddy,

    The Kingly rule of Christ is unique among all the Kings mentioned in the Bible.

    Firstly, it is FOREVER.

    Secondly, it occurs in the midst of enemies--and death is the last enemy to be abolished under the rule of Christ; this occurs at the end of this current age. Thus, the Kingdom rule of Christ had to have been initiated before death gets to be abolished (i.e., during our current age).

    Thirdly, it continues after all enemies--including death--are abolished.

    And fourthly, it cannot be seperated from His High Priest aspect.

    Thus, it seems useful to investigate the writings of Peter, and his dialectic apropos the present heavens and earth and the new heavens and earth:

    II Pet. 3
    7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

    ////

    10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
    11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
    12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
    13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
    OK.

    Now we can "read between the lines" in these things; if Peter is looking for "new heavens and a new earth" and so on, then there is no way that he could be looking for the "millennium" at all.

    Nope.

    Indeed, Peter is (actually, Peter indicates that "we are") looking for the complete absence of these things: death, mourning, crying, and pain.

    Why?

    Because the present heavens and earth ("first heaven and first earth") has death, mourning, crying, and pain:

    Rev. 21
    1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
    2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
    4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
    5And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
    And the present heavens and earth will be burned by fire also--and the judgment of ungodly men is featured at the same time as well.

    Thus, the "coming of the Day of God" is the "gathering together for the war of the great day of God" also--and with fire:

    Rev. 16
    13And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
    14for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
    15(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)
    16And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.
    And remember, the "millennium" contains death:

    Rev. 20
    The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
    And so, a question remains: how will Christ navigate an earthly reign upon an "earthly, physical" throne during the "millennium" and so on?
    Grace and peace,

    Billy-brown 2


    I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

  11. #86

    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    "And so, a question remains: how will Christ navigate an earthly reign upon an "earthly, physical" throne during the "millennium" and so on?"



    Why don't you ask Him?

    .... or you could read your Bible to learn something about the Lord's unlimited abilities since you imply that He is either not up to the task and or is disinterested

    He has already made known His objectives and intent on this issue very clear in His Word which you seem to walk right by

    You seem to know and cling to various hand picked details, but I think you lack overview and the bigger picture as I review you posts on the forum

    Prophetic vision is unique and if one does not understand the structure correctly then many wrong conclusions can be made ..... Peter's statement is compressed and he tells of a beginning event and an ending event, but does not give the details between .... this a consistant characteristic of the writings of Bible prophets .... they all do it

    At the same time all other related scripture must be taken into account regarding time frames and time lapse, and I can assure you that many things will take place between Peter's "beginning" and "ending event" which will require a specificed amount of time passing .... in fact an exact amount of time

    Might I ask what your objectives are for posting on a Christian message board .... what is it that you are attempting to accomplish?
    Last edited by Buddy; Mar 8th 2012 at 11:21 AM.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    "And so, a question remains: how will Christ navigate an earthly reign upon an "earthly, physical" throne during the "millennium" and so on?"



    Why don't you ask Him?

    .... or you could read your Bible to learn something about the Lord's unlimited abilities since you imply that He is either not up to the task and or is disinterested


    He has already made known His objectives and intent on this issue very clear in His Word which you seem walk right by

    You seem to know and cling to various hand picked details, but I think you lack overview and the bigger picture as I review you posts on the forum

    Prophetic vision is unique and if one does not understand the structure correctly then many wrong conclusions can be made ..... Peter's statement is compressed and he tells of a beginning event and an ending event, but does not give the details between .... this a consistant characteristic of the writings of Bible prophets .... they all do it

    At the same time all other related scripture must be taken into account regarding time frames and time lapse, and I can assure you that many things will take place between Peter's "beginning" and "ending event" which will require a specificed amount of time passing .... in fact an exact amount of time

    Might I ask what your objectives are for posting on a Christian message board .... what is it that you are attempting to accomplish?
    LOL

    Buddy,

    Our God is a God of order and process.

    Yep.

    And so, notice that Jesus does the same thing that Peter does apropos your text in underlined bold above:

    Luke 20
    34Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
    35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
    36for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
    Now, the "millennium" contains death--and am sure that you are aware of that.

    And the resurrection of the dead is the dividing line between "this age" and "that age" and so on. This is indeed congruent with the "present heavens and earth" and "new heavens and earth" concepts of Peter respectively.

    Thus, notice that our Savior accomplishes the same thing as Peter: He is looking for the absence of death when "that age" comes--just as Peter is when he mentions the "new heavens and new earth" indeed.

    And "that age" is the "new heavens and new earth" and so on.

    Interesting . . .



    Yes?
    Grace and peace,

    Billy-brown 2


    I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Interesting .... not

    You are way off track BB2 .... your interpretations are skewed toward you pre-conceptions
    Buddy,

    If you would, please provide an exegesis of each of the following passages below:

    Luke 20
    34Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
    35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
    36for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
    II Pet. 3
    7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

    ////

    10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
    11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
    12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
    13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
    Rev. 21
    1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
    2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
    4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
    5And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
    Thanks.
    Grace and peace,

    Billy-brown 2


    I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

  14. #89

    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    I already have BB:


    The age of His grace and salvation primarily to the gentiles [this is in process]

    The Lord's coming period of wrath and judgment against an unbelieving world [2550 days]

    The Lord's millennial kingdom of mortals on the earth for 1000 years with Israel at the center

    His judgment and destruction of all of the unbelieving spirits of the human dead from the beginning of human creation

    His renovation of the present heavens and earth with restoration to the original creation

    His eternal sinless kingdom of immortal humans


    All prophetic exegesis fits precisely into this framework

    It is just that simple

    If you cannot read the scriptures and render these truths, I think that you have a problem in my opinion

    Our views and interpretations are very different from one another and to the extent that ther is no congruence .... I know what you views incorporate and you know mine, so never the two will mix

    I prefer to spent time with a clear and correct exegesis of Bible porphecy for the purpose of witnessing to the lost because I think that it has the power to change their course toward the Lord for their salvation

    I do not like spending waisted time arguing over things like you do

  15. #90
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    Re: Exegeting II Peter 3 concerning the new heavens and new earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    I already have BB:


    The age of His grace and salvation primarily to the gentiles [this is in process]

    The Lord's coming period of wrath and judgment against an unbelieving world [2550 days]

    The Lord's millennial kingdom of mortals on the earth for 1000 years with Israel at the center

    His judgment and destruction of all of the unbelieving spirits of the human dead from the beginning of human creation

    His renovation of the present heavens and earth with restoration to the original creation

    His eternal sinless kingdom of immortal humans


    All prophetic exegesis fits precisely into this framework

    It is just that simple

    If you cannot read the scriptures and render these truths, I think that you have a problem in my opinion

    Our views and interpretations are very different from one another and to the extent that ther is no congruence .... I know what you views incorporate and you know mine, so never the two will mix

    I prefer to spent time with a clear and correct exegesis of Bible porphecy for the purpose of witnessing to the lost because I think that it has the power to change their course toward the Lord for their salvation

    I do not like spending waisted time arguing over things like you do
    Thanks Buddy,

    I feel that we are simply fellowshipping over elements of the OP. That's all.

    And the text in underlined bold in the scriptures below are key:

    Luke 20
    34Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
    35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
    36for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

    II Pet. 3
    7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

    ////

    10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
    11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
    12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
    13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

    Rev. 21
    1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
    2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
    4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
    5And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
    Yep.

    Death is not possible in "that age"--and "that age" is the "new heavens and new earth" and so on. And there are only two ages. That's all.

    Also, death is abolished for the saints at the second coming of Christ Jesus the King:

    I Cor. 15
    22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
    23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,
    24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
    25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
    26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
    Thus, there cannot be any death AFTER Christ comes again at all. And the "millennium" contains death and mortality, yes?

    Grace and peace,

    Billy-brown 2


    I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

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