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View Poll Results: Sickness

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • God puts sickness on people as punishment.

    1 7.14%
  • The devil oppresses people with sickness.

    2 14.29%
  • Sickness is a natural occurrence based upon chance or genetics.

    5 35.71%
  • God judges but the devil is the executioner of sickness.

    0 0%
  • Some other option because folks are really picking apart the others. ;0)

    6 42.86%
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Thread: What Does Your Church Teach?

  1. #16
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    God isn't interested in circumstances. He's interesting in how we respond to them.

  2. #17
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by keck553 View Post
    God isn't interested in circumstances. He's interesting in how we respond to them.
    So, are you saying that is what your church teaches?
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

  3. #18
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    I don't exactly know what my church's stance is on sickness.

    I personally would say that sickness is just a result of living in an imperfect World. I don't think that God causes us to get sick, but I would certainly say He allows sickness and then uses it for His Will.

  4. #19

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    I'm not aware of any official view of sickness in our church.

  5. #20

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    Teaching that sickness is caused by The Lord is totally unbiblical in the dispensation of grace.
    1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
    1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
    1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
    1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    What about death in the dispensation of grace?

    Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
    Act 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
    Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
    Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
    Act 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
    Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
    Act 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

  6. #21

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    1Co 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
    1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
    1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
    1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
    1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
    1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

    What about death in the dispensation of grace?

    Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
    Act 5:6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
    Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
    Act 5:8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
    Act 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
    Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
    Act 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
    Not discerning the body in The Lords supper does not make one sick. They remain sick because the do not discern the healing provided them through the bruising of The Lord's body.
    Anninias and Saphira did not get sick, they got killed.

  7. #22
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    Not discerning the body in The Lords supper does not make one sick. They remain sick because the do not discern the healing provided them through the bruising of The Lord's body.
    Anninias and Saphira did not get sick, they got killed.
    I wholeheartedly agree!!!
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!




  8. #23

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Something my pastor said to a friend of mine a few weeks ago makes me wonder if he believes in the first option.

  9. #24
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    Not discerning the body in The Lords supper does not make one sick. They remain sick because the do not discern the healing provided them through the bruising of The Lord's body.
    Anninias and Saphira did not get sick, they got killed.
    Revelation 2: 20-22- Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

    Not discerning the body in The Lords supper does not make one sick. They remain sick because the do not discern the healing provided them through the bruising of The Lord's body.
    Are you saying that it is always God's will to heal sick believers through the atonement of Christ? What of Paul's thorn in the flesh? What about Trophimus in 2 Timothy 4:20? When you get into the teaching that believers should always be healthy based on Christ's atonement, you get into the error of accusing people of unbelief or sin when they are sick, just like the apostles erroneously did regarding the blind man in John 9.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  10. #25
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    Are you saying that it is always God's will to heal sick believers through the atonement of Christ? What of Paul's thorn in the flesh? What about Trophimus in 2 Timothy 4:20? When you get into the teaching that believers should always be healthy based on Christ's atonement, you get into the error of accusing people of unbelief or sin when they are sick, just like the apostles erroneously did regarding the blind man in John 9.
    Paul's thorn was persecution . . . not sickness. We don't have enough information on Trophimus to conclude much of anything other than he experienced sickness. Everybody has experienced sickness at some time or another, so there's not really much that can be gathered from that account. The blind man in John 9 wasn't sick. However, I also do not believe it accurate to conclude that general sin was not the cause of his blindness. Don't misunderstand, I believe Jesus when he said it wasn't the man's sin that caused the blindness; however, sin in general did because without sin in this world the man never would have experienced it. Blindness is ultimately a result of a sin fallen world, and just as the power of God can heal blindness the power of God can take away sickness as well.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

  11. #26

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    Revelation 2: 20-22- Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
    .
    Jezabel is not a literal woman in this passage.

  12. #27

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    Revelation 2: 20-22-


    Are you saying that it is always God's will to heal sick believers through the atonement of Christ? What of Paul's thorn in the flesh? What about Trophimus in 2 Timothy 4:20? When you get into the teaching that believers should always be healthy based on Christ's atonement, you get into the error of accusing people of unbelief or sin when they are sick, just like the apostles erroneously did regarding the blind man in John 9.
    Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was a demon sent by Satan to buffet him and oppose his ministry. Nowhere in the Word of God will you find that it was sickness. In fact, the passage is very plain that it was a literal demon.
    The Word says what it says even though it may not be convenient for some.
    James 5:13-16

    13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

    Notice the passage does not contain the words "might, maybe, or some."
    Gal 3:13
    Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    The following verses contain the curses of the borken law.
    Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God, to observe [and] to do all His Commandments which I command thee this day, that the "I AM" thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
    28:2 And ALL THESE BLESSINGS shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God.
    28:3 Blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the city, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the field.
    28:4 Blessed [shall be] the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
    28:5 Blessed [shall be] thy basket and thy store.
    28:6 Blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou comest in, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou goest out.
    28:7 The "I AM" shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
    28:8 The "I AM" shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and He shall bless thee in the land which the "I AM" thy God giveth thee.
    28:9 The "I AM" shall establish thee an holy people unto Himself, as He hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the Commandments of the "I AM" thy God, and walk in His Ways.
    28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the "I AM"; and they shall be afraid of thee.
    28:11 And the "I AM" shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
    28:12 The "I AM" shall open unto thee His good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
    28:13 And the "I AM" shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the Commandments of the "I AM" thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to DO [them]:
    28:14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the Words which I command thee this day, [to] the right hand, or [to] the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
    28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God, to observe to do all His Commandments and His Statutes which I command thee this day; that ALL THESE CURSES [of the Law] shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
    28:16 Cursed [shalt] thou [be] in the city, and cursed [shalt] thou [be] in the field.
    28:17 Cursed [shall be] thy basket and thy store.
    28:18 Cursed [shall be] the fruit of thy body (Eno. 96:14), and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
    28:19 Cursed [shalt] thou [be] when thou comest in, and cursed [shalt] thou [be] when thou goest out.
    28:20 The "I AM" shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken Me.
    28:21 The "I AM" shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until He have consumed thee from off the land, where thou goest to possess it.
    28:22 The "I AM" shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
    28:23 And thy heaven that [is] over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee [shall be] [like] iron.
    28:24 The "I AM" shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
    28:25 The "I AM" shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
    28:26 And thy carcass shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall scare [them] away.
    28:27 The "I AM" will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the hemorrhoids, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
    28:28 The "I AM" shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and with heart-attack:
    28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save [thee].
    28:30 Thou shalt marry a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof.
    28:31 Thine ox [shall be] slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass [shall be] violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep [shall be] given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue [them].
    28:32 Thy sons and thy daughters [shall be] given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail [with longing] for them all the day long: and [there shall be] no might in thine hand.
    28:33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed always:
    28:34 So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
    28:35 The "I AM" shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.
    28:36 The "I AM" shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.
    28:37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations where the "I AM" shall lead thee.
    28:38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather [but] little in; for the locust shall consume it.
    28:39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress [them], but shalt neither drink [of] the wine, nor gather [the grapes]; for the worms shall eat them.
    28:40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint [thyself] with the oil; for thine olive shall cast [his fruit].
    28:41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.
    28:42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume.
    28:43 The stranger that [is] within thy borders shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.
    28:44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.
    28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God, to keep His Commandments and His Statutes which He commanded thee:
    28:46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.
    28:47 Because thou servedst not the "I AM" thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all [things];
    28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the "I AM" shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in need of all [things]: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
    28:49 The "I AM" shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, [as swift] as the eagle (emblem of Babylon and their descendants the Romans) flieth; a nation whose tongue (babble-onian) thou shalt not understand;
    28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor show favour to the young:
    28:51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which [also] shall not leave thee [either] corn, wine, or oil, [or] the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
    28:52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the "I AM" thy God hath given thee.
    28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the "I AM" thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the strictness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
    28:54 [So that] the man [that is] tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:
    28:55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the strictness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
    28:56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
    28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all [things] secretly in the siege and strictness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.
    28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this Law that are written in this Book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE "I AM" THAT "I AM";
    28:59 Then the "I AM" will make thy plagues extraordinary, and the plagues of thy seed, [even] great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
    28:60 Moreover He will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
    28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which [is] not written in the Book of this Law, them will the "I AM" bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
    28:62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as "the stars of heaven" for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the "I AM" thy God.
    28:63 And it shall come to pass, [that] as the "I AM" rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the "I AM" will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land where thou goest to possess it.
    28:64 And the "I AM" shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, [even] wood and stone.
    28:65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the "I AM" shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
    28:66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
    28:67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were evening! and at evening thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
    28:68 And the "I AM" shall bring thee into slavery AGAIN with ships, by the way whereof I spoke unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again (if ye keep The Covenant): and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy [you].

  13. #28
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    Paul's thorn was persecution . . . not sickness. We don't have enough information on Trophimus to conclude much of anything other than he experienced sickness. Everybody has experienced sickness at some time or another, so there's not really much that can be gathered from that account. The blind man in John 9 wasn't sick. However, I also do not believe it accurate to conclude that general sin was not the cause of his blindness. Don't misunderstand, I believe Jesus when he said it wasn't the man's sin that caused the blindness; however, sin in general did because without sin in this world the man never would have experienced it. Blindness is ultimately a result of a sin fallen world, and just as the power of God can heal blindness the power of God can take away sickness as well.
    So do you believe that if a believer is sick, they should just claim healing and God will heal them every time, based on the atonement of Christ? That seems to be what Reynolds is saying. So if I have cancer, I should go to the elders of the church and ask them to pray for me, and if I have faith, I will definitely be healed? Don't get me wrong, I believe in healing, but if we teach this doctrine, if a person is sick, and for whatever reason they are not healed, they are going to think, "why didnt God heal me, didnt I have enough faith?" Yet God sometimes allows sickness for Soveriegn reasons that we don't understand. As it has been said, sickness is not always caused by satan, often it is caused by living in a fallen world and in "earthen vessels".

    If some of you believe that salvation includes complete freedom from physical sickness and physical disease that is fine with me. I just don't see that in the Bible. The way I believe it, I am made Spiritually whole in the atonement, but my body will receive perfect healing at the resurrection.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  14. #29
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was a demon sent by Satan to buffet him and oppose his ministry. Nowhere in the Word of God will you find that it was sickness. In fact, the passage is very plain that it was a literal demon.
    The Word says what it says even though it may not be convenient for some.
    James 5:13-16

    13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

    Notice the passage does not contain the words "might, maybe, or some."
    Gal 3:13
    Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    The following verses contain the curses of the borken law.
    Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God, to observe [and] to do all His Commandments which I command thee this day, that the "I AM" thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
    28:2 And ALL THESE BLESSINGS shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God.
    28:3 Blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the city, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] in the field.
    28:4 Blessed [shall be] the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
    28:5 Blessed [shall be] thy basket and thy store.
    28:6 Blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou comest in, and blessed [shalt] thou [be] when thou goest out.
    28:7 The "I AM" shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
    28:8 The "I AM" shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and He shall bless thee in the land which the "I AM" thy God giveth thee.
    28:9 The "I AM" shall establish thee an holy people unto Himself, as He hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the Commandments of the "I AM" thy God, and walk in His Ways.
    28:10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the "I AM"; and they shall be afraid of thee.
    28:11 And the "I AM" shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
    28:12 The "I AM" shall open unto thee His good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
    28:13 And the "I AM" shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the Commandments of the "I AM" thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to DO [them]:
    28:14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the Words which I command thee this day, [to] the right hand, or [to] the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
    28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God, to observe to do all His Commandments and His Statutes which I command thee this day; that ALL THESE CURSES [of the Law] shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
    28:16 Cursed [shalt] thou [be] in the city, and cursed [shalt] thou [be] in the field.
    28:17 Cursed [shall be] thy basket and thy store.
    28:18 Cursed [shall be] the fruit of thy body (Eno. 96:14), and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
    28:19 Cursed [shalt] thou [be] when thou comest in, and cursed [shalt] thou [be] when thou goest out.
    28:20 The "I AM" shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken Me.
    28:21 The "I AM" shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until He have consumed thee from off the land, where thou goest to possess it.
    28:22 The "I AM" shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
    28:23 And thy heaven that [is] over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee [shall be] [like] iron.
    28:24 The "I AM" shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
    28:25 The "I AM" shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
    28:26 And thy carcass shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall scare [them] away.
    28:27 The "I AM" will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the hemorrhoids, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
    28:28 The "I AM" shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and with heart-attack:
    28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save [thee].
    28:30 Thou shalt marry a wife, and another man shall lie with her: thou shalt build an house, and thou shalt not dwell therein: thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not gather the grapes thereof.
    28:31 Thine ox [shall be] slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof: thine ass [shall be] violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee: thy sheep [shall be] given unto thine enemies, and thou shalt have none to rescue [them].
    28:32 Thy sons and thy daughters [shall be] given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail [with longing] for them all the day long: and [there shall be] no might in thine hand.
    28:33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed always:
    28:34 So that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
    28:35 The "I AM" shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.
    28:36 The "I AM" shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.
    28:37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations where the "I AM" shall lead thee.
    28:38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather [but] little in; for the locust shall consume it.
    28:39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress [them], but shalt neither drink [of] the wine, nor gather [the grapes]; for the worms shall eat them.
    28:40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint [thyself] with the oil; for thine olive shall cast [his fruit].
    28:41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.
    28:42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume.
    28:43 The stranger that [is] within thy borders shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.
    28:44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.
    28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the "I AM" thy God, to keep His Commandments and His Statutes which He commanded thee:
    28:46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.
    28:47 Because thou servedst not the "I AM" thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all [things];
    28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the "I AM" shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in need of all [things]: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
    28:49 The "I AM" shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, [as swift] as the eagle (emblem of Babylon and their descendants the Romans) flieth; a nation whose tongue (babble-onian) thou shalt not understand;
    28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor show favour to the young:
    28:51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which [also] shall not leave thee [either] corn, wine, or oil, [or] the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
    28:52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the "I AM" thy God hath given thee.
    28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the "I AM" thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the strictness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
    28:54 [So that] the man [that is] tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:
    28:55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the strictness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
    28:56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
    28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all [things] secretly in the siege and strictness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.
    28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this Law that are written in this Book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE "I AM" THAT "I AM";
    28:59 Then the "I AM" will make thy plagues extraordinary, and the plagues of thy seed, [even] great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
    28:60 Moreover He will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
    28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which [is] not written in the Book of this Law, them will the "I AM" bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
    28:62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as "the stars of heaven" for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the "I AM" thy God.
    28:63 And it shall come to pass, [that] as the "I AM" rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the "I AM" will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land where thou goest to possess it.
    28:64 And the "I AM" shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, [even] wood and stone.
    28:65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the "I AM" shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
    28:66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:
    28:67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would God it were evening! and at evening thou shalt say, Would God it were morning! for the fear of thine heart wherewith thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
    28:68 And the "I AM" shall bring thee into slavery AGAIN with ships, by the way whereof I spoke unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again (if ye keep The Covenant): and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy [you].
    So what do you tell a Christian who is dying of cancer, who has prayed, and has been annointed with oil, who has been prayed over, and who is still dying of cancer? What do you tell them in that case? Do you tell them that the atonement has already procurred their healing, and all they need to do is believe and they will be healed? Don't get me wrong, I believe in healing, but I also realize that sickness is sometimes a reality for believers, and if they are not healed it does not mean that they are sick due to some personal sin, or that it was caused by satan or God, or because they didnt have enough faith to be healed, etc. Sickness happens because we live in a fallen world, and we live in earthen vessels, and we will not have absolute perfection of health until the resurrection.

    This will be my last post in this discussion. This issue is too sensitive and delicate to be treated in a debate style, and that's what it will turn into if I keep responding. I will continue to read without replying.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  15. #30

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    So what do you tell a Christian who is dying of cancer, who has prayed, and has been annointed with oil, who has been prayed over, and who is still dying of cancer? What do you tell them in that case? Do you tell them that the atonement has already procurred their healing, and all they need to do is believe and they will be healed? Don't get me wrong, I believe in healing, but I also realize that sickness is sometimes a reality for believers, and if they are not healed it does not mean that they are sick due to some personal sin, or that it was caused by satan or God, or because they didnt have enough faith to be healed, etc. Sickness happens because we live in a fallen world, and we live in earthen vessels, and we will not have absolute perfection of health until the resurrection.

    This will be my last post in this discussion. This issue is too sensitive and delicate to be treated in a debate style, and that's what it will turn into if I keep responding. I will continue to read without replying.
    I give them the scripture and let them make that determination themselves. People are not going to receive healing from my interpretation of the Word. They receive healing by their faith in the Word. I will teach and disciple them, but the ultimate determination of what they believe is up to them.

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