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View Poll Results: Sickness

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • God puts sickness on people as punishment.

    1 7.14%
  • The devil oppresses people with sickness.

    2 14.29%
  • Sickness is a natural occurrence based upon chance or genetics.

    5 35.71%
  • God judges but the devil is the executioner of sickness.

    0 0%
  • Some other option because folks are really picking apart the others. ;0)

    6 42.86%
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Thread: What Does Your Church Teach?

  1. #31

    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    I give them the scripture and let them make that determination themselves. People are not going to receive healing from my interpretation of the Word. They receive healing by their faith in the Word. I will teach and disciple them, but the ultimate determination of what they believe is up to them.

    Nice side step. I had a friend a few years ago who died of lung cancer. The elders came and prayed for healing. He died. The consequence of him smoking for years got him, period. Our Sunday school teacher who was a minister had the nerve to tell our class with his wife present that he must have some unconfessed sin or didn't have enough faith/believe enough, because God would have healed him otherwise. He said it was one of those that was behind it. Hum bug. God will do what He wants, neither you, I, or anyone else will move God's hand if He chooses not to move it. We still do what James said, but when it does not happen the way we think it should've happened, we can become arrogant about our role in the healing. We could go in circles, because you believe what you believe as do I. I get motion sickness, so it will have to end here.



    I'm not sure about the church I attend currently where they stand on this issue. However the church I attended before was emphatic that if you were sick and you weren't healed. you, the believer was doing something wrong: didn't believe enough or have enough faith and didn't trust God enough. They were into all kinds of Word Faith movement type doctrine and theology.

  2. #32
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    So do you believe that if a believer is sick, they should just claim healing and God will heal them every time.
    I don't think healing is a matter of God doing anything. I believe it is a matter of believing/not believing what He has already done. I think that is really the problem most believers have today. They believe God can do anything but has done nothing.

    So if I have cancer, I should go to the elders of the church and ask them to pray for me, and if I have faith, I will definitely be healed?
    What does the passage that he referenced say? Also, the passage says the "prayer of faith" and it is the elders doing the praying. The sick person is being prayed for.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe in healing
    Out of curiosity, how often do you see a genuine supernatural healing take place?

    If some of you believe that salvation includes complete freedom from physical sickness and physical disease that is fine with me. I just don't see that in the Bible. The way I believe it, I am made Spiritually whole in the atonement, but my body will receive perfect healing at the resurrection.
    I believe that what you believe will most definitely decide what you experience.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

  3. #33
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Out of curiosity, how often do you see a genuine supernatural healing take place?
    I will come out of my self imposed exile for just a moment to answer this one question. I've seen a few healings through prayer. I also know that God works through the medical sciences as well. I believe in praying, and also using what God has already provided for you.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  4. #34
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    I will come out of my self imposed exile for just a moment to answer this one question. I've seen a few healings through prayer. I also know that God works through the medical sciences as well. I believe in praying, and also using what God has already provided for you.
    Would you care to provide testimony of the circumstances surrounding these healings? I really do not understand the controversy surrounding this topic.
    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

  5. #35
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClayInHisHands View Post
    Nice side step. I had a friend a few years ago who died of lung cancer. The elders came and prayed for healing. He died. The consequence of him smoking for years got him, period. Our Sunday school teacher who was a minister had the nerve to tell our class with his wife present that he must have some unconfessed sin or didn't have enough faith/believe enough, because God would have healed him otherwise. He said it was one of those that was behind it. Hum bug. God will do what He wants, neither you, I, or anyone else will move God's hand if He chooses not to move it. We still do what James said, but when it does not happen the way we think it should've happened, we can become arrogant about our role in the healing. We could go in circles, because you believe what you believe as do I. I get motion sickness, so it will have to end here.



    I'm not sure about the church I attend currently where they stand on this issue. However the church I attended before was emphatic that if you were sick and you weren't healed. you, the believer was doing something wrong: didn't believe enough or have enough faith and didn't trust God enough. They were into all kinds of Word Faith movement type doctrine and theology.
    I did not side step anything. I will teach someone the Word and let them and their ears to The Holy Spirit make their own determinations.
    No one ever got healed based on "brother so and so said" God will heal me. They get healed based on a combination Rhema and Logos knowledge of The Word.

  6. #36
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    I will come out of my self imposed exile for just a moment to answer this one question. I've seen a few healings through prayer. I also know that God works through the medical sciences as well. I believe in praying, and also using what God has already provided for you.
    I do not disagree with medicine. I do not believe God works through it. Medicine uses the natural to treat the natural. I do not believe God uses it nor do I believe He frowns on its use.

  7. #37
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    Would you care to provide testimony of the circumstances surrounding these healings? I really do not understand the controversy surrounding this topic.
    I will share a personal experience.

    When I was a child, I had a severe learning disability, and had to attend special ed. My mother was praying for me, and one day in class, while they were teaching me ABCs, I walked up to the board and began writing in cursive. I went from not knowing how to print properly to writing in cursive almost in an instant. When they did some tests on me they found that my reading comprehension level and other learning skills had radically increased seemingly overnight. I was removed from Special ed shortly afterwards. Where once I struggled with reading, I quickly became an avid reader. By the time I was in Junior High school, I had the reading comprehension of an upper level college student.

    I really don't see any controversy surrounding healing. We should pray for healing in faith, and let God do what He pleases. It's rather simple to me.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  8. #38
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClayInHisHands View Post
    . Hum bug. God will do what He wants, neither you, I, or anyone else will move God's hand if He chooses not to move it.

    Ever heard of Covenant and free will?
    How do you know if God is "not willing to move," or if you are simply not receiving?

  9. #39
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    I will share a personal experience.

    When I was a child, I had a severe learning disability, and had to attend special ed. My mother was praying for me, and one day in class, while they were teaching me ABCs, I walked up to the board and began writing in cursive. I went from not knowing how to print properly to writing in cursive almost in an instant. When they did some tests on me they found that my reading comprehension level and other learning skills had radically increased seemingly overnight. I was removed from Special ed shortly afterwards. Where once I struggled with reading, I quickly became an avid reader. By the time I was in Junior High school, I had the reading comprehension of an upper level college student.

    I really don't see any controversy surrounding healing. We should pray for healing in faith, and let God do what He pleases. It's rather simple to me.
    How do you pray for something "in faith" if you have no confidence of what God's will is in the situation?

  10. #40
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    How do you pray for something "in faith" if you have no confidence of what God's will is in the situation?
    I have confidence in knowing that God knows what is best. I do not place Soveriegnty with man's free will, I place it with God. It is God who heals. The power is not in our faith, but in the God we trust.

    I am not at all troubled by your view on this. Why not agree to disagree, and let God supply whatever is lacking in our understanding. I am fully submitted to believe whatever He reveals to me. If you are right, you will not be able to convince me through debate. No one knows the things of God but by the Spirit of God. That's why people debate things hours on end, yet the debates never lead to someone changing their opinions. We need to speak the words of truth, but only the Spirit of God can illuminate the heart and confirm the message. You intimated this yourself.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  11. #41
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    I have confidence in knowing that God knows what is best. I do not place Soveriegnty with man's free will, I place it with God. It is God who heals. The power is not in our faith, but in the God we trust.

    I am not at all troubled by your view on this. Why not agree to disagree, and let God supply whatever is lacking in our understanding. I am fully submitted to believe whatever He reveals to me. If you are right, you will not be able to convince me through debate. No one knows the things of God but by the Spirit of God. That's why people debate things hours on end, yet the debates never lead to someone changing their opinions. We need to speak the words of truth, but only the Spirit of God can illuminate the heart and confirm the message. You intimated this yourself.
    Agreeing to disagree kind of makes a Christian forum where we seek to gain knowledge a wee bit pointless.
    If God is going to do what He wants when He wants, and our faith has no bearing on the situation, Why pray? What is the point of prayer in a situation of healing? Is God going to heal if 500 people pray for 4 hours and not going to heal if 499 pray for 3 hours and 59 minutes?

  12. #42
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    Agreeing to disagree kind of makes a Christian forum where we seek to gain knowledge a wee bit pointless.
    If God is going to do what He wants when He wants, and our faith has no bearing on the situation, Why pray? What is the point of prayer in a situation of healing? Is God going to heal if 500 people pray for 4 hours and not going to heal if 499 pray for 3 hours and 59 minutes?
    Agreeing to disagree kind of makes a Christian forum where we seek to gain knowledge a wee bit pointless.
    Not really, because I heard what you said, and I have taken it into consideration, so I am gaining knowledge of your position. If the Spirit impresses me that your position is correct, if I am convinced by scripture that your position is correct, I will change my positition.

    If God is going to do what He wants when He wants, and our faith has no bearing on the situation, Why pray?
    I never said that our faith or prayers have no bearing on the situation, or that God is going to do what He wants when He wants. I said we should pray in faith, and let God do as He wills. There is a big difference. What you erroneously quoted me as saying would imply that there is no use to pray, but you misquoted me. My point was that God's will is accomplished through our prayers, but it is not determined by our prayers. We pray "Thy will be done" not "My will be done". If what you were saying were the case, people of true faith would never die of things like cancer or other diseases.

    If you believe it is always God's will that believers be healed of sickness and disease, and if you believe that is what the Bible teaches, than by all means exercise that faith to the fullest. Yet if a believer dies after much prayer, I do not think that you should imply that it was because of lack of faith or sin on the part of the believer or the ones who prayed for him/her. That is my only objection.

    Is God going to heal if 500 people pray for 4 hours and not going to heal if 499 pray for 3 hours and 59 minutes?
    I do not believe God operates that way, as if we need to pray and pray as if to fill up a bucket, and then once the bucket is full we will receive what we ask for. I have received glorious things from God even through an instantaneous, unspoken prayer in my heart. Sometimes God responds only through importunate prayer, but that is not because that is the only way He answers, rather I think it is for the purpose of teaching us patience and perserverance in faith.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

  13. #43
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by glad4mercy View Post
    Not really, because I heard what you said, and I have taken it into consideration, so I am gaining knowledge of your position. If the Spirit impresses me that your position is correct, if I am convinced by scripture that your position is correct, I will change my positition.



    I never said that our faith or prayers have no bearing on the situation, or that God is going to do what He wants when He wants. I said we should pray in faith, and let God do as He wills. There is a big difference. What you erroneously quoted me as saying would imply that there is no use to pray, but you misquoted me. My point was that God's will is accomplished through our prayers, but it is not determined by our prayers. We pray "Thy will be done" not "My will be done". If what you were saying were the case, people of true faith would never die of things like cancer or other diseases.

    If you believe it is always God's will that believers be healed of sickness and disease, and if you believe that is what the Bible teaches, than by all means exercise that faith to the fullest. Yet if a believer dies after much prayer, I do not think that you should imply that it was because of lack of faith or sin on the part of the believer or the ones who prayed for him/her. That is my only objection.



    I do not believe God operates that way, as if we need to pray and pray as if to fill up a bucket, and then once the bucket is full we will receive what we ask for. I have received glorious things from God even through an instantaneous, unspoken prayer in my heart. Sometimes God responds only through importunate prayer, but that is not because that is the only way He answers, rather I think it is for the purpose of teaching us patience and perserverance in faith.
    What do you have faith that God will do in a situation? Either God does everything His way regardless of us or we in some way influence the process.

  14. #44
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by VerticalReality View Post
    What does your church teach on the topic of sickness? Please vote!

    If you would like to elaborate, that is fine as well.
    My church teaches that both sickness and death are a consequence of Adam’s sin in the garden, but that individual cases of sickness and disease are caused by bacteria, viruses, mutations, undesirable recessive genes, etc. in accord with the principle taught in Matt. 5:45 concerning the sun and the rain.

    43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
    44. But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
    45. so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.
    46. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?” (NRSV)

  15. #45
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    Re: What Does Your Church Teach?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds357 View Post
    What do you have faith that God will do in a situation? Either God does everything His way regardless of us or we in some way influence the process.
    I believe that we by the Grace of God are blessed with the priviledge of taking part in the process of God's will being done, but when we pray we are not coercing God to do something, we are requesting that He do something that He already wants to do. I do agree that sometimes we do not receive blessings because we do not seek or ask for them, ( ...you have not because you ask not...), but I also believe that God does not always give us precisely what we ask for, based on His own Sovereign purposes.
    1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    "My heart was once hard and dark. Then God turned on the Light and the Water."

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