"(The word-of-faith) is not in Heaven that you should say, 'Who will go ...get it for us and give it to us, to make us hear it that we may observe it? ....it is very near you (not too difficult nor out of reach)."
Romans connects, in that Paul says "it's the SAME word of faith that we are (now!) preaching!" And this connects to Acts17:26-31, where he says "though it's not far from any of us".
But the "foundational refutation" of Reformed Theology, is that RT insists God has to GIVE it to us (monergistic regeneration!) to MAKE us hear it (by His sovereign heart-change), so that we may (will!) observe it. I can't understand how Deut30:12 could ever fit into the Reformed View. The only thing I've heard, is that "they were under the Old Covenant, it doesn't apply to us". But Paul said it's the same as they were preaching --- and if predestination is true now, then it would have been true back then too. So that's not an answer...
Yes. And then what? Romans 6 eloquently speaks of what "born-again" means; he uses five words interchangeably, "died/crucified/buried/immersed/UNITED" with Christ, into His death, and then into His resurrection. The old man/woman dies, and "as He was raised from the dead so too shall we walk in newness of life". We die to sin, and are made alive to God through Jesus. Yet the context really seems to convey a message of "continue", doesn't it? "Do not go on presenting your bodies as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead ...instruments of righteousness to God."We need to notice, that Romans is written to people who have ALREADY received faith.
What do you think of the connection to Deuteronomy30, verses 11-20? Is the word only in believers? Or was it also in those who, in Deut30:17, can turn away disobey and perish?Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart". This is obviously to those who have faith, or do you believe that Non Christians have the word in their hearts?
When these passages say "it is not far nor difficult", doesn't Reformed perceive that it is infinitely too far and difficult for those who perish (who were not "sovereignly-elected" and not "monergistically regenerated")?
(Conversely, if he's thinking of "only-in-a-few", then why would he say "it's not far from those for whom God placed-it-inside-them"?)
Well, I looked it up in NKJV on blueletterbible.org; it's close enough -- verse 8 is referring to Deut30:14. Verse 6 (the thing about "ascending into Heaven to get it for us") is referring to Deut30:12. The question, is "does it read as though it's only in the hearts of a FEW, or is it not-far/not-difficult/near to everyone, even those who (in Deut40:17-18) can turn away disobey and perish?"Notice your quote from Rom 10 is very different from the New King James;
Your quote;'says it is NOT in Heaven that one must go get it, give it to us to make us hear it & observe it'
Can you see the difference, hence your different interpretation of Christ GIVING faith.
That's right; now, can we come to agreement on whether that means "only a few", or "everyone"?We do not need to go to heaven or abyss to get Christ[The faith giver], because; "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart".
Yes, perfect sense! I'm ashamed that I didn't make the connection between Deuteromony30 and Romans10 until last year. It had been there for a couple thousand years, but I hadn't realized it. Then I read Acts17, about how God determines for each person to seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and FIND Him, though He's not far from anyone; and He commands all men everywhere to repent. And I realized this fits perfectly, it's just another piece of the same puzzle! What possible way can these passages fit into Reformed's premise that: "God opens the hearts of only a FEW, and those whom He regenerates irresistibly believe"? I can't see any way to make it fit.I hope this makes sense?
As will yours! :-)Oh Yes, for sure come for lots of biscuits, we can even have them with water with them, your company will just be a pleasure I AM SURE!
And for Americans who may not know, "biscuits" are cookies. So milk is also appropriate, perhaps chocolate milk.
But -- if milk comes from cows, and chocolate milk comes from brown cows, dare we wonder where POWDERED milk comes from? Some questions we just don't want answered!!!