Missing Pieces Defining Forgiveness

[One Fine Day]

A famous & well loved T.V. preacher told a story of counceling a 16 year old girl. She had been molested by a family member. He boldly told the the congregation, his advice to her was ... "YOU MUST FORGIVE!"

Very true,... BUT ... where is the ... how, what, when, & why?

Many people say you must forgive, and leave out the rest.

The Bible says, “The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates” Psalm 11:5. Should anything God “hates” we should take note of and hate and reject as well?

Where was the advice to her that it was ok to remove herself from that person?

Although this is not my story in any way, I have struggled with forgiveness myself due to missing pieces of the puzzle. I have found that if I can remove myself from an offender, it is much easier for me to forgive, begin to heal & move on.

I have been in situations where the majority ruled on being involved with an offender, not addressing an issue, but sweeping it under the rug in denial.

To me that can cause guilt, shame & anger.

Forgiveness is essential & beneficial for the offended ... but what are the scriptures that further direct those who have been abused or offended?

[Adstars]

Well was the preacher a human being? Yes... So with human beings their advice sometimes lacks completeness.

I note also your verse. the operative word about those who did violence was that they loved doing it. These where unrepentant sinners who took joy in unrighteousness. People like that will not be forgiven until they repent of their evil.


Yes a person that is being abused like this 16 year old girl should be removed to end the abuse. But come the day that the abuser repents of their sin and asks for forgiveness then on that day she should forgive them. Very hard thing to do. Yes. But that's the Message of Jesus to us.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[BrianW]

You must forgive. That is true. Can anyone deny this?

But forgiving does not mean that you have to stay in an abusive situation. Forgiving does not mean that, in a situation such as this, you do not go to the authorities and let justice insure that the offender doesn't molest any other kids.

In other words, in a situation like this forgiving somebody does not mean that you continue to allow a person to continue doing what they where or will be forgiven of and that there should be no consequences.

Put his butt in prison where he belongs and then go visit him and give him the best gift you ever could. Love and the gospel.

[One Fine Day]

You must forgive. That is true. Can anyone deny this?

But forgiving does not mean that you have to stay in an abusive situation. Forgiving does not mean that, in a situation such as this, you do not go to the authorities and let justice insure that the offender doesn't molest any other kids.

In other words, in a situation like this forgiving somebody does not mean that you continue to allow a person to continue doing what they where or will be forgiven of and that there should be no consequences.

Put his butt in prison where he belongs and then go visit him and give him the best gift you ever could. Love and the gospel.

Terrific reply

[One Fine Day]

Very validating statement. I've known some abusers & victims & it seems that the entire burden is always on the victim. Instead of being validated & cared for after abuse, the emphasis is on why the abuser is that way or that one must forgive. It's not the act of forgiving that is the problem, it is the lack of concern for the victim's well being. I've seen it happen. One result ends up to be that the victim can have fears & doubts about God. And that obviously is not a good thing. I think that once a victim is cared for & validated, then advising about the mechanics of forgiveness would be well received.

[Slug1]

A famous & well loved T.V. preacher told a story of counceling a 16 year old girl. She had been molested by a family member. He boldly told the the congregation, his advice to her was ... "YOU MUST FORGIVE!"

Very true,... BUT ... where is the ... how, what, when, & why?

Many people say you must forgive, and leave out the rest.

The Bible says, “The Lord examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates” Psalm 11:5. Should anything God “hates” we should take note of and hate and reject as well?

Where was the advice to her that it was ok to remove herself from that person?

Although this is not my story in any way, I have struggled with forgiveness myself due to missing pieces of the puzzle. I have found that if I can remove myself from an offender, it is much easier for me to forgive, begin to heal & move on.

I have been in situations where the majority ruled on being involved with an offender, not addressing an issue, but sweeping it under the rug in denial.

To me that can cause guilt, shame & anger.

Forgiveness is essential & beneficial for the offended ... but what are the scriptures that further direct those who have been abused or offended?

In the Bible a man once asked... "help my unbelief" (Mk 9:24). I was abused by my mother when I was a child and as I got older the physical abuse lessened but the emotional abuse continued with the yelling and screaming at me when there was no reason. Physical abuse happened periodically but it was me dodging pans being swung or thrown at me.

I hated her... for many, many years. Even after leaving the home once I was old enough.

Until I asked God to "help my UNforgiveness"! If you can't forgive a person then SURRENDER the unforgiveness over to the Lord. Explain to Him WHY you can't find in your heart where ANY forgiveness is located and pray for Him to enable the forgiveness He's given to you, to be manifest IN YOU, so you can give it to others and... FORGIVE THEM.

Read the model prayer given to us by Jesus, better known as "The Lord's Prayer"

Matthew 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Now... Jesus goes on to explain ONLY one part of this entire prayer because that single part is the MOST important...

v14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Jesus KNEW the heart in us is capable of MURDER and He also explains that when we hate another, we are committing MURDER in our hearts. When a person hurts us how long are we to remain hurt or angry? Forever? A hurt is in the past, being angry over something that a person did is IN THE PAST. Sometimes SO far in the past, the person who hurt us has already died and many MORE years have passed. There is NO reason to be angry, there is NO reason to be hurt... YET WE ARE.

WHY?

It's because of the unforgiveness in out heart and we KEEP the anger and we KEEP the hurt... upon us. We are inflicting the hurt upon ourselves!

Jesus is TELLING us to forgive. Without forgiving, we continue to hate when there is no reason to hate, due to this hate we will be judged as a MURDERER.

When I began to understand this I began to be convicted of the UNforgivness in my heart. I didn't want to let it go thought. I WANTED to hate my mother and wanted her to die for many years. Yet, when I accepted Jesus, and years later when I began to understand and thus be convicted... I was stubborn, I resisted, I even rebelled and then when I reached a point that continuing to be angry and hurt was only causing me harm... I also realized that I was the one NOW abusing MYSELF by not surrendering it all over to God and FORGIVE my mother.

One prayer was all it took and I stood up from that prayer healed of that unforgiveness and I have never felt the anger and the hurt ever again. My mother an I have a great relationship now and have ever since that prayer.

[One Fine Day]

Makes much sense. Thank you so much for your story.

God Bless

[aftertheflood]

The point of forgiving is ultimately reconcilliation. Everything we do in forgiveness is to that end. The other person may not receive the offered mercies but that is not up to you. Imagine if Christ said to you "You know I forgive you, but I really don't want anything to do with you"

[Boo]

We are also told to flee from sin.

If someone is abusive and caustic, and that someone hurts me, I can forgive that person and move on. I will not stay around that person because that person will eventually cause me to sin. Hating is sin and committing assault against another that is not in defence is as well; so I avoid sin by avoiding the person.

I am told to reconcile with my brother. My brother would not be abusive and caustic.

[Sam07]

Hi everyone,

Forgiveness is the key to our peace of mind and health, the person or persons who have hurt or offended us are truly in our debt.

When we hold on to these debts, we are the ones who suffer and are tormented by the memories of these debts, the other person has no idea how we feel or what we think, it doesn’t affect or concern them.

We are the only ones suffering in sorrow, grief, and torment because this is creating a disease in us, which is consuming our health, and deteriorating our bodies,’ unforgiveness can manifest itself in many ways shapes and forms.

Forgiveness is for our peace of mind and wellbeing, we are the ones that benefit from it, and this revelation empowers us to release people from their legal debt to us, and in turn our father blesses, rewards, and frees us from our debts to him.

It’s simply not just a case of being obedient, it is a revelation of receiving God’s underserved favor, and as freely as we have received, freely we must give, for it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance.

Peace.

[Ceegen]

If you hate someone, if you fear someone, they have power over you. Forgive them, and release the power Satan holds over us in fear and hate. It won't happen until you allow it to, and that's what you have to deal with. When the time is right, for you, it'll happen. Just takes prayer.

[episkopos_1]

Forgiveness is the only sin that God specifically says He will not forgive (Matt 18:35). When we consider all that God has forgiven us of and how many times He has done so, it should be easy for us to forgive. In the Bible, we often look at the story of the unforgiving servant (Matt 18:23-35), and consider him to be evil, wicked and ungrateful to his master for forgiving His sins. But the truth is that we are all like that servant in more ways than we realise. This is not to condemn anybody or excuse any wrong that anybody commits to another person, but the truth is that forgiveness is for ourselves. The person who committed the wrong does not feel the pain, hurt and bitterness in our unforgiving hearts. It is to free ourselves that we forgive and so that God can also forgive our own sins. Forgiveness made easy by Bishop Dag-Heward Mills, clearly and distinctly outlines the reasons, steps and benefits of forgivenss. One point I loved so much was the Lord’s Prayer test, referring to the fact that if you have truly forgiven the person, you will not be scared to ask God for forgiveness for your sins.

The Test
Pray The Lord’s Prayer. Keep praying. When
you get to the point where you refer to those who
trespass against you, you should specifically
mention the name of the person who offended
you. It is important to specifically mention the
name of that person.
So the prayer becomes for example, “...And
forgive me for my trespasses, as I forgive
Person X.” In other words, “If I have not
forgiven Person X for their sins against me,
please do not forgive me!!!”
If you are able to pray like that, asking God to
forgive you specifically in relation to your
forgiveness of certain people in your life, it is
very likely that you have forgiven them.

I higly recommend the following book;


http://daghewardmills.org

Mod Note: Link for direct book sale removed. Please read the rules and posting guidelines for links.
Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns--BrianW

[Daniel Gracely]

Forgiving is difficult. But it’s made worse when someone says “You must forgive” and supposes such an explanation covers every circumstance. It doesn’t.

The fact is, while it is true that it is a glory for a man to overlook a transgression, there is no command to forgive unrepentant sin. In fact, Christ made allowance for the retaining of unrepentant sin. And he put the qualifier on the statement that if a brother sinned against us yet turned again and said “I repent…”, we are to forgive him. Notice here that Christ doesn’t endorse automatic forgiveness regardless of the offender’s attitude.

The real key is not that we must automatically forgive, but that we should stand ready to forgive. Even this can be difficult to do.

One thing that can help each of us to forgive is to remember that the Bible teaches that the sins of each of us against God is greater in degree than what any one person (or, at least, any brother) commits against us. This is a difficult concept to grasp, but it is taught in the story about the man who owed 10,000 talents of money to a king, was forgiven, but then refused to forgive someone a much lesser debt owed to him.

In daily life people are often impatient with one another. I think it’s best to overlook these offenses when you can, but if it rankles too much then bring the matter to their attention. But then leave it at that, if at all possible. However, in really egregious matters with a brother or sister you may need to proceed according to Matthew 18, which outlines the process of hoped-for reconciliation. But sometimes professing Christians refuse to be reconciled, or to follow the Bible’s guildlines for reconciliation.

For example, about 6 years ago my wife had a conflict with the Christian organization where she had worked for 18 years. At first, she was merely suspended for her strong reaction against the inefficiency and selfishness of another co-worker. She had actually asked for forgiveness before having any inkling she might be suspended. But, apparently, apologies weren’t enough. During my wife’s suspension we met with our pastor, who felt that conditions at my wife’s workplace unfairly exasperated her. And so he said she should not return to work until someone from our church met with one of the two people involved with her suspension. My wife followed the advice of our pastor and requested a meeting. I was in the room when she made this request by telephone, and she did it humbly. A few days later, with no explanation, her immediate superior called to tell her she was fired. Our medical health coverage ceased in two weeks, there was no severance for her 18 years of work besides her remaining vacation days for that year, and there was no unemployment because this not-for-profit organization had elected not to pay into unemployment.

I was incensed that an organization that called itself Christian would treat my wife so cavalierly, while supposing they were above accountability. In fact, this kind of treatment had been handed out to a half-dozen or so employees before my wife suffered the same fate. So with the guidance and approval of all three senior pastors of my church, I pursued reconciliation according to the principles in Matthew 18. In other words, I retained the sin, but sought reconciliation. The CEO (of this Christian organization) and I talked once on the telephone, but afterward he refused to meet with me and one or two witnesses, as outlined in Matthew 18. During our one conversation he claimed that this matter was not under the purview of the church, but by analogy was more that of a slave to a master, since she was an employee. In other words, he was saying he was exempt from church accountability, because he was the CEO of a [Christian] company that employed her. Apparently, he felt politically safe, in case the matter was brought before the Board. But I didn't approach the Board, because Matthew 18 teaches that we are all subject to one another in the Church. But, alas, the church he attended didn’t cooperate in allowing the matter to be heard. Also, the other person who was responsible for firing my wife refused to speak with me, and her church, too, was uncooperative. Yet before I sent requests to speak to either of these two persons or their churches, I sent copies of my letters to my pastor as per his request, to ensure the letters were worded appropriately and not high-handedly.

In the end, nothing was resolved for my wife and me. My pastors had warned me not to expect cooperation, believing most churches would not be biblical enough to follow Matthew 18. I remain incensed that such persons and churches so little regard the Lord’s instructions about the process for reconciliation. And yet I realize I must stand ready to forgive, should ever either one of these two persons and churches repent. Generally, I don’t think about it, realizing the Lord will confront these persons and elders in his own time (which I tend to think will take place in the next life). In the meantime I do as my one pastor instructed, and leave room for God’s wrath. Perhaps someone will say to me, “But, Dan, Christians are not under the wrath of God.” But I would reply that there is nothing these persons and churches have demonstrated in this matter which indicates they are Christians. In fact, Paul’s rhetorical question—aimed at believers who take one another to secular court, i.e. “Is there no judge among you?”—which expects a yes answer, was in my case NO. For while the pastors of my church were willing to be such, there was no cooperation on the other end, and so, in fact, there was no judge AMONG us.

Incidentally, have you noticed that there is no fall-back plan if churches refuse to participate in the process of reconciliation as outlined in Matthew 18? It’s as if God is saying that any local assembly truly belonging to Him will naturally do what He instructs. For else they deny His Lordship and therefore the faith.

[BrianW]

Part of forgiveness is letting go of resentment that can store itself up in our hearts and minds and become a sore spot that detracts from our joy in being sons and daughters of God and heirs. Forgiveness isn't all about the other person/s a large part of forgiveness is the letting go of the hurt and resentments and being at peace within yourself.

That letting go is essential for our personal healing process to begin. That's not to say that your wife should ever go back and work for the people that treated your family is this fashion. There is nothing saying that you can't honestly relate the details about circumstances and this situation either.

But if you do not forgive the people involved you do yourself a disservice. And the gospel tells us to forgive. There is nothing that says "except if this or that happens." There is nothing saying that if the people you forgive are unrepentant that you just forget all of the bad stuff and go on like they're great and fine. Nope. Disassociate yourself from them until they change.


As you said, in the end God Himself will judge all.

[Daniel Gracely]

And the gospel tells us to forgive. There is nothing that says "except if this or that happens.""

It would have been helpful if this portion of your opinion actually had some scriptural support. For you say about the conditions of forgiving: There is nothing that says "except if this or that happens." In fact, there is, and I already gave the relevant quote in brief. Here is Jesus speaking:

Luke 17:4a:I If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF he repent, forgive him.

Certainly sounds like conditional forgiveness to me. But, again, since Proverbs tells us it is a glory for a man to overlook a transgression, we have the option either to overlook a sin, or to bring the offense to the brother's attention and ask for repentance. This is why Christ says in John 20:22-23:

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

So where in your theology is there room for the above verses in Luke and John, which claim there are circumstances in which one might retain sins?