When did we stop believing God for souls and started believing Him for stuff?

[14390876]

I hear you sister!! I have been called to intercede too, and the Lord has brought the things you speak of to my attention.I have prayed for the right heart, a heart of compassion, to pray as I should.As for faith? We have the power of the universe on our side, for we are praying in agreement with the desires of His heart! When you pray in agreement with God, things happen!

Like I said in my earlier post, we need to seek to understand the heart of God, for His heart is set on saving souls! His desire is that all men be saved, and His direction to us is to be fishers of men! We get ourselves so wrapped up in the temporary, that we forget that life is but a vapour in the wind, a millisecond in eternity. That millisecond is all we have to reach souls, either by witnessing or by prayer. Have you seen that time clock, can't remember where to find it, but it shows how many souls(I'm sure it's even more than it states) are stepping into eternity on any given hour or day! It makes me weep and weep to think how many never came to Christ!

I went through a really difficult time a couple of years back. I needed healing, houses, finances,so many things. As I began to pray earnestly for my needs, the Lord very quickly told me He knew my needs before I spoke, and His promises to provide were true. He then told me what to pray for, and gave me a great burden for it. It was souls! He was asking me to pray for souls to be saved, and leave my own situation to Him. He refocused my view, from the temporary, to the eternal, from me to others.

Seek God, seek souls, for what else matters in the long run?

blessings to you

Remind me to rep you for this when I am again able to do so.

All I can say is amen

[lovex]

Dani,
I just bought the book The New York City Noon Prayer Meeting. My heart longs for the souls in this world (and my own) to turn away from themselves and turn to our Savior. I pray that this book will open my eyes to the power of what Christ has done and will continue to do through these generations. Thank you for telling me about it.
p/s I am a serious book nerd and was really excited when you mentioned this book!

[shepherdsword]

Hats off to the intercessors. You truly have God's burden for the lost. I think it takes a special kind of person for that or perhaps one that God has brought to a special place in their walk. I remember when my sister Oded year before last. It blindsided me and caught me totally by surprise. I wondered way I had no burden for her before this happened and it threw me in a sort of despair. I wish I had such a heart as some of you but as it stands,I can only look on in admiration.

[Dani H]

I'm not trying to convince anyone to see my side of anything. Because there is only one side that matters: God's. All I can do is lay out there what God is doing in my life, and see who responds.

I see so much dissatisfaction with how our world is. Believers aren't satisfied with what they know or think they know. There's some really hungry people out there, hungry for God, that He wants to fill. And there's some really lost people out there that God wants to save. With everything happening in our world ... I don't believe for one minute that God is satisfied with how things are going right this second and that He is mighty proud of what this world has come to and how people are treating each other, right now, all over our planet.

It's never too late to ask God for that burden for souls. If you have even the smallest inkling, but maybe you feel too inadequate or maybe you feel too sinful or maybe you feel too full of unbelief or too guilty or too ashamed ... whatever your "too" is that keeps you stuck in that place ... I think we have to learn to just take that to God and give Him all we are lacking or think we're lacking. Because I'm not Jesus and I'm no savior of anyone. I can't do it! But, I can ask God to break my heart for people and give me compassion and a longing to see people saved, take that measure of faith that is mine ... no matter how small ... and give it back to God for Him to use and believe He can do something with it.

I had no idea what intercession was all about until I read "Rees Howells, Intercessor". But I'm no Rees Howells, and so the path God has taken me down is totally different. We can gain inspiration from others, but we all have to trust Jesus to take us down that road that is ours, because we're not other people, and other people aren't us. We all have unique limitations because we come from unique backgrounds. We also have unique strengths and so the way God uses us to accomplish certain things will differ. God didn't call me to be no hero. He just asks me to trust Him.

And intercession ... well you don't get to stand before people and derive any sort of validation from them. You don't get to be the center of attention. You get to be unknown. You get to be hidden away. 99.9% of what you actually do will always be between you and God. Just letting you know how it is so you never kid yourself. But when you have God's attention ... well there you go.

The Holy Spirit is always the same and He is always mighty and He is always compassionate and He is here to save people. He saved us, didn't He? He raised us from the dead to life in Christ, didn't He? Well, what makes me so special that God did that? Because He drew my name out of some cosmic lottery hat?

There are certain things that are the same, no matter how different we are: Faith, love, hope, belief ... the essence of those never changes even though the way they are expressed by us may differ. But God always recognizes the essence of something for what it is.

The bottom line for me is this: Salvation is either random, or it's not. I don't believe that God is random, or that anything He does is random. The God I see in the Bible is completely capable, thorough, determined, and purposeful. And when He makes a promise ... we can believe it. Because God doesn't say things to hear Himself talk, and He is not a liar.

So if Jesus said "I'm here to build my Church" after Peter proclaimed Him to be the Christ and the Son of the living God ... then we can believe it.

If Jesus said "I'm going to come back again after I leave for a short while" ... then we can believe it.

If God showed King Nebuchadnezzar that He was going to establish an eternal Kingdom that cannot be destroyed by human hands ... then we can believe it.

If Jesus said He would send us His Spirit to give us the things of God ... then we can believe it. And if the Spirit is here to finish what He started with Jesus ... then I believe it is my place to join Him in that, however small or inadequate I am. If God says "I want to use you" ... then I can either give Him my laundry list of excuses as to why He should look elsewhere ... or I can say "yes Sir" and let Him worry about the details.

We either believe this stuff ... or we don't. Those who believe ... will respond. They always have. And always will.

So if you're responding to this ... as member or as guest ... just get with God and ask Him to show you what is next for you. If you have even the smallest speck of dust-sized burden for the lost ... get that burden out. Before God. Because it's His burden to begin with. And, He knows what to do with it. He always has. And always will.

[Reynolds357]

Do you not think God is aware that some things require money?

Do you not think that when we focus on souls ... God will provide whatever means required to make certain things happen, without us having to even ask Him for those specifically? That He knows how to speak to people and move them to send checks here and there and other things as necessary and as He sees fit? And, to also provide for our needs also as we ask on the behalf of others and toss our faith into the ring to see people saved?

I understand the balance you mention and I don't disagree. But I also understand that it's fine for us to leave certain details up to God and distribute provision as He chooses when we make a priority what God makes a priority.

I've been dead broke in a homeless shelter, and I have also lived in relative comfort. Each time, God is God. Each time, He has taught me how to be content and to focus on Him and let Him handle certain specifics in my life. Each time, I have seen His provision when I looked outside myself and focused on the things that matter to God. He does all kinds of stuff when I'm not even looking. It's alright. He is able.

God is perfectly aware that things require money. He does not dump it out of heaven in buckets. He works through the world system to provide it for His work.
I think the Christian businessman who is pumping huge amounts of money into evangelism efforts is every bit as used by and important to the work of God as the Person who prays 12 hours a day.

[Dani H]

I think the Christian businessman who is pumping huge amounts of money into evangelism efforts is every bit as used by and important to the work of God as the Person who prays 12 hours a day.

Again, not disagreeing with you here.

[BrianW]

Jesus didn't set Himself up in a palace and have the world come to His doorstep to hear Him. He and His apostles traveled and lived in some very rough conditions especially when compared to life in America as we know it today.

Jesus also could have created all of the money He wanted anytime He wanted to. Remember when He sent Peter to catch a fish and take the coin in the fishes mouth to pay the tax collectors? He did it so as to not offend and so the tax collectors might hear Him speak without animosity in their hearts.

That's a good lesson. Another good lesson that I think comes from this is that Jesus obviously didn't consider wealth all that important. But that when something is needed for the glory of God it will be provided.

I do believe that God has promised to bless us in this life and to give us what we need for His glory and to meet our needs. Some He blesses with money as they would be good stewards and will use it for His glory.
He blesses others with great faith and perseverance so that others can see them and marvel at their faith even when it seems that all of the difficulties and the weight of the world is on their shoulders.
He blesses others with a heart for prayer and intercession. These are the ones that have helped many people that they may never even meet in this life or even know why the Spirit has moved them to pray for specific things or people but they do it for His glory.

Others have been blessed with the drive to plant churches and others with the need to preach the gospel in these churches.

The point of all of this I have written is to say that I believe that God blesses us with what we need and what best suits us to serve Him for His glory and that no matter what He blesses us with, money, faith, intercessory prayer etc, it is for His glory.

Not ours.

God loves me, Brian, and I am an heir. He blesses me and loves me and I rejoice in this day that the Lord has made.

At the same time I, Brian, am also a tool my Lord's work shed. A tool to be used by God for God's glory and God decides what kind of tool I am.

And for those who are wise in the ways of teh interwebs, yes, I have just called myself a tool.

And I name that and proclaim it proudly because I am a God's tool!

[VerticalReality]

Jesus didn't set Himself up in a palace and have the world come to His doorstep to hear Him. He and His apostles traveled and lived in some very rough conditions especially when compared to life in America as we know it today.

Jesus also could have created all of the money He wanted anytime He wanted to.

Remember this, though . . .

For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich. -- 2 Corinthians 8:9

Many will try to argue that this passage of scripture is speaking of spiritual riches; yet, the context of the chapter is speaking entirely of material wealth. People often refer to Jesus in the manner you did above, but the scriptures reveal that He became poor for a purpose, and that purpose was so that His people would prosper.

To me, it's not a question in my mind whether or not God wants to prosper His people. I know that He does. The real question in my mind is what is the definition of prosperous? Is it restricted only to those living in mansions and driving $100,000 cars? No, I do not believe that to be accurate at all.

[BrianW]

Jesus is Lord. He is God. He owns everything. He could have proved that He owned everything while He was down here on earth in a much more impressive display of His majesty (In a monetary sense) if He wanted to.

I mean that's kind of the point of the first part of my post.

So I agree with you.

[GitRDunn]

Actually if you want the lowdown in detail, I refer you to a book called "The New York City Noon Prayer Meeting".

Little did one man know what setting aside 1 hour each day for prayer during his lunch was going to start.

A revival around the world was the outcome.

I reckon there have been others, long before him because it all builds on each other, but that is a book accessible enough to show people how believing prayer impacts salvation.

For every Billy Graham ... there are people somewhere on their knees praying in the harvest before another reaps it.

I was referring more to what you actually mean by the title for this thread. I don't understand what you are trying to say. What do you mean by "believing God for souls" and by "believing Him for stuff"?

[Dani H]

I was referring more to what you actually mean by the title for this thread. I don't understand what you are trying to say. What do you mean by "believing God for souls" and by "believing Him for stuff"?

What I'm trying to say is that our faith is valuable. Valuable enough, powerful enough to toss into the ring to believe God for something also highly valuable: A person's salvation.

I'm not advocating faith in faith, by the way. But faith in God. Who regards people as treasures worth enough dying for.

Does that make any more sense now?

[chad]

Brian, you are correct, in that God blesses us in many ways. Some he has called to evangelize, other he gives a burden for the lost, others he gives faith so they faithfully pray for others. Others he gives the ability to encourage those new in Christ so they may grow in wisdom and faith, others he gives musical ability for worship and song etc… All these things are done for the glory of God. We are all parts of his body working for his Glory.

Jesus and the apostles needed little of material wealth to spread the gospel and do the will of God. They just needed to follow Jesus and obey his commands.

The question I ask myself is: Did Jesus or the apostles, preach a message of prosperity as we have it today?

When I read the scriptures, I find peace in the words Jesus spoke about storing up your treasures in heaven rather than on earth.

When I read about the poor widow who gave out of her need in (Lk 21:1-4, Mk 12:41-43) I sometimes ask where does the prosperity gospel of today fit in?

Luke 6:20 (NIV 84) writes Looking at his disciples, he said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.

Jesus didn't set Himself up in a palace and have the world come to His doorstep to hear Him. He and His apostles traveled and lived in some very rough conditions especially when compared to life in America as we know it today.

Jesus also could have created all of the money He wanted anytime He wanted to. Remember when He sent Peter to catch a fish and take the coin in the fishes mouth to pay the tax collectors? He did it so as to not offend and so the tax collectors might hear Him speak without animosity in their hearts.

That's a good lesson. Another good lesson that I think comes from this is that Jesus obviously didn't consider wealth all that important. But that when something is needed for the glory of God it will be provided.

I do believe that God has promised to bless us in this life and to give us what we need for His glory and to meet our needs. Some He blesses with money as they would be good stewards and will use it for His glory.
He blesses others with great faith and perseverance so that others can see them and marvel at their faith even when it seems that all of the difficulties and the weight of the world is on their shoulders.
He blesses others with a heart for prayer and intercession. These are the ones that have helped many people that they may never even meet in this life or even know why the Spirit has moved them to pray for specific things or people but they do it for His glory.

Others have been blessed with the drive to plant churches and others with the need to preach the gospel in these churches.

The point of all of this I have written is to say that I believe that God blesses us with what we need and what best suits us to serve Him for His glory and that no matter what He blesses us with, money, faith, intercessory prayer etc, it is for His glory.

Not ours.

God loves me, Brian, and I am an heir. He blesses me and loves me and I rejoice in this day that the Lord has made.

At the same time I, Brian, am also a tool my Lord's work shed. A tool to be used by God for God's glory and God decides what kind of tool I am.

And for those who are wise in the ways of teh interwebs, yes, I have just called myself a tool.

And I name that and proclaim it proudly because I am a God's tool!