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Thread: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Jerusa

  1. #16
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
    Hiddy Ho Indue...

    I probably should have been clearer, to the bold part of your first comment... "nor an Anti-Christ who will enter it." when do you say that happened if not in the future?

    Matthew 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

    Daniel 11:31 "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
    32 "By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.
    33 "Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days.
    34 "Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy.
    35 "Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time.
    36 "Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.
    37 "He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will magnify himself above them all.
    Defiling of the temple happened a couple of times, the most notably being in 70ad with Nero. I don't see how any of these verses fit how John spoke about antichrist. This is not a single person in the future, but every person who denies that Jesus came in the flesh and is Lord.

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  2. #17

    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    How are we to understand this verse, if not bricks and motar?

    And this passage from Acts:

    Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
    Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

  3. #18

    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    How are we to understand this verse, if not bricks and motar?

    And this passage from Acts:

    Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
    Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
    1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    i would look for him sitting in the temple of God.

    thats why there are many antichrist.

  4. #19
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by Indueseason View Post
    Defiling of the temple happened a couple of times, the most notably being in 70ad with Nero. I don't see how any of these verses fit how John spoke about antichrist. This is not a single person in the future, but every person who denies that Jesus came in the flesh and is Lord.

    blessings to you
    Hi Indue... But if you look at Jesus' comments in Matthew 24, He was calling something yet future, so anything before Jesus' death probably doesn't fit.... And then looking to the destruction of the temple in AD70, it is widely thought that Nero died before AD 70, and that it was probably under the rule of Vespasian that the Temple was destroyed... However, History doesn't seem to record that there was a desecration of the temple as described with the ferocity of Daniel 11, so I'd have to think that there just might be yet something else... yet to be.

    For an also interesting point of Matthew 24 is that the disciples ask Him 2 but connected questions, 1) what will be your sign of Your coming, and 2) and of the end of the Age. Seeing that Jesus was with them, He must be talking about His return, so I don't think He returned in AD70, so it has a strong view that this is still future. What do you think?


    Hope all is well! Blessings.
    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
    ... there are few who find it."


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    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

    The New American Standard Bible®,
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis


  5. #20
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by fewarechosen View Post
    1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    i would look for him sitting in the temple of God.

    thats why there are many antichrist.
    Daniel 11 and Matthew 24 are pretty specific and detailed to not be a many as Jesus is specifically referring to this event, don't you think? 'Standing in the Holy Place' [Matthew 24:15]... 'Forces from him will arise' [Daniel 11:31] [and] 'desecrate the sanctuary fortress'... and 'thus some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time....'[35]

    Just something to consider....
    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
    ... there are few who find it."


    -----------------------------------------------

    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

    The New American Standard Bible®,
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis


  6. #21
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by fewarechosen View Post
    1Co_3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    i would look for him sitting in the temple of God.

    thats why there are many antichrist.


    Exactly! And I'm even premil, yet I agree with this.

  7. #22
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    How are we to understand this verse, if not bricks and motar?
    The man of sin will be sitting in the Church, which is the temple of God.

    1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

    John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

    Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

    1Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    1Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

    I know that most if not all these verse have been presented, but they truly show that the temple of God is not necessarily made of brick and mortar.

    And this passage from Acts:

    Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
    Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    The word tabernacle in the Old Testament "ohel" is most always translated tent or tabernacle and does not refer to brick and mortar although I suppose it could.

    The word tabernacle in the New Testament "shene" is found some 20 times and again refers to the tent or tabernacle.

    David's tabernacle was a tent.

    Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come , by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say , not of this building;

    Revelations 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

    Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

  8. #23
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him" (Daniel 9:27).

    So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel - let the reader understand (Matthew 24:15)


    The temple must be rebuilt before the Anti Christ comes. This is prophecy.

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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    [QUOTE=rejoice44;2811667]

    The man of sin will be sitting in the Church, which is the temple of God.
    ...
    Correction. "Man of sin", not "THE man of sin" will be in the temple (believers).

    (2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    The original Greek for "man" says "anthropos" which can be used plural as well as singular. The "The" in "The man of sin" is added by somebody, as well as in many end time translations.

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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    [QUOTE=Raybob;2811704]
    Quote Originally Posted by rejoice44 View Post

    Correction. "Man of sin", not "THE man of sin" will be in the temple (believers).

    (2Th 2:3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    The original Greek for "man" says "anthropos" which can be used plural as well as singular. The "The" in "The man of sin" is added by somebody, as well as in many end time translations.
    I stand corrected.

  11. #26
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by jesse View Post
    He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him" (Daniel 9:27).

    So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel - let the reader understand (Matthew 24:15)


    The temple must be rebuilt before the Anti Christ comes. This is prophecy.
    That's how I understand it as well...
    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
    ... there are few who find it."


    -----------------------------------------------

    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

    The New American Standard Bible®,
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis


  12. #27
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
    That's how I understand it as well...
    1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    To expect a temple to be built to offer animal sacrifice is to not recognize that Christ is the temple and the sacrifice. The Jews, through ignorance, expect to resurrect a temple to offer animal sacrifice. God has not allowed them to resurrect the false temple for nearly two thousand years, and there is no reason to suspect that that is about to change.

    Some people say that the temple described by Ezekiel is going to be the third temple. They say the second temple was not Ezekiel's described temple. They say it was not big enough. When you ask what are the dimensions that were not followed in building the second temple there is no answer, because they do not have for the most part the dimensions of the second temple. In the search for answers I have come to believe that the second temple was built to the dimensions of Ezekiel's described temple. There is a problem with one dimension as described by Ezekiel.

    The problematic dimension given in Ezekiel is found in Ezekiel 42:20. "He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place."

    This dimension equates to approximately 694 acres. The total dimension of Old Jerusalem was 224 acres. That wall would be three times the size of old Jerusalem. Was the dimension given a spiritual dimension? Could it have been a spiritual hedge God placed around Jerusalem. Remember the chariots of fire that surrounded Elisha.

    There are several reason why I believe the second temple was built according to Ezekiel's dimensions.

    1. The altar of the first temple was 20 cubits by 20 cubits and the dimensions of Ezekiel's temple was 24 cubits by 24 cubits. We find in the Talmud (Mishna - Mas. Middoth Chapter 3) that R. Jose explains that when they came back from the captivity the altar in the second temple was enlarged on the North by four cubits and on the West by four cubits, making it the exact size as described in Ezekiel's dimensions. You will will find that the Porch's dimensions were also changed in the second temple to fit Ezekiel's dimensions.

    2. Ezekiel was told four times that the sons of Zadok would be in charge of that temple. It is well documented that the sons of Zadok were in fact in charge of the second temple. Ezra was in fact one of those sons.

    Ezekiel 43:19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering.

    Does anyone believe that God would again institute bulls for a sin offering after God offered up his Son?

  13. #28
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by rejoice44 View Post
    1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    To expect a temple to be built to offer animal sacrifice is to not recognize that Christ is the temple and the sacrifice. The Jews, through ignorance, expect to resurrect a temple to offer animal sacrifice. God has not allowed them to resurrect the false temple for nearly two thousand years, and there is no reason to suspect that that is about to change.

    Some people say that the temple described by Ezekiel is going to be the third temple. They say the second temple was not Ezekiel's described temple. They say it was not big enough. When you ask what are the dimensions that were not followed in building the second temple there is no answer, because they do not have for the most part the dimensions of the second temple. In the search for answers I have come to believe that the second temple was built to the dimensions of Ezekiel's described temple. There is a problem with one dimension as described by Ezekiel.

    The problematic dimension given in Ezekiel is found in Ezekiel 42:20. "He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place."

    This dimension equates to approximately 694 acres. The total dimension of Old Jerusalem was 224 acres. That wall would be three times the size of old Jerusalem. Was the dimension given a spiritual dimension? Could it have been a spiritual hedge God placed around Jerusalem. Remember the chariots of fire that surrounded Elisha.

    There are several reason why I believe the second temple was built according to Ezekiel's dimensions.

    1. The altar of the first temple was 20 cubits by 20 cubits and the dimensions of Ezekiel's temple was 24 cubits by 24 cubits. We find in the Talmud (Mishna - Mas. Middoth Chapter 3) that R. Jose explains that when they came back from the captivity the altar in the second temple was enlarged on the North by four cubits and on the West by four cubits, making it the exact size as described in Ezekiel's dimensions. You will will find that the Porch's dimensions were also changed in the second temple to fit Ezekiel's dimensions.

    2. Ezekiel was told four times that the sons of Zadok would be in charge of that temple. It is well documented that the sons of Zadok were in fact in charge of the second temple. Ezra was in fact one of those sons.

    Ezekiel 43:19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering.

    Does anyone believe that God would again institute bulls for a sin offering after God offered up his Son?

    Hi Rejoice,

    It sounds like you lean towards to a form of dispensationism. For me, I see God working many paths, that of correcting Israel and that of building the church. So as with Israel's sin of rejecting Jesus [their Messiah], God scattered them at the destruction of the temple in AD70. As Daniel asks and prophesied, the last week of years is still waiting to happen before all Israel will be 'saved'.

    I believe that as with multiple economies in the world today, that within the Millennial Kingdom of the future, there will be Jews who will believe and see that God and Jesus , with David sitting in a side court on their respective thrones on earth... This is what I see written within Ezekiel.

    As to Matthew 24 and Daniel 9-11, I think that either a temple or a tabernacle will be reconstructed within the city of Jerusalem and that there will be devout Jews who will feel the need to return to their traditions of their fathers [Abraham and Moses] and offer up to God sacrifices as liken unto the 7 holiday feasts. The do this because they will want to 'come back' to Him in the only way they know how and thus will be the modern day devoutest of Jews.

    So all these years until AD1947, Israel did not have their land... Step one. Then in AD1968, Jerusalem became a Jewish city again. Now things get closer to the timing of the end. IF... a temple or tabernacle is reconstructed, or a 7 year treaty is signed with Israel and then a temple or tabernacle is reconstructed within Jerusalem... then I will have great anticipation as to what will transpire next.
    "Enter by the Narrow Gate...
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way...
    ... there are few who find it."


    -----------------------------------------------

    * All Scripture when quoted is taken from:

    The New American Standard Bible®,
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973,
    1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

    Italics, bold, color and/or underline are added for emphasis


  14. #29
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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by rejoice44 View Post
    1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    To expect a temple to be built to offer animal sacrifice is to not recognize that Christ is the temple and the sacrifice. The Jews, through ignorance, expect to resurrect a temple to offer animal sacrifice. God has not allowed them to resurrect the false temple for nearly two thousand years, and there is no reason to suspect that that is about to change.

    Some people say that the temple described by Ezekiel is going to be the third temple. They say the second temple was not Ezekiel's described temple. They say it was not big enough. When you ask what are the dimensions that were not followed in building the second temple there is no answer, because they do not have for the most part the dimensions of the second temple. In the search for answers I have come to believe that the second temple was built to the dimensions of Ezekiel's described temple. There is a problem with one dimension as described by Ezekiel.

    The problematic dimension given in Ezekiel is found in Ezekiel 42:20. "He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place."

    This dimension equates to approximately 694 acres. The total dimension of Old Jerusalem was 224 acres. That wall would be three times the size of old Jerusalem. Was the dimension given a spiritual dimension? Could it have been a spiritual hedge God placed around Jerusalem. Remember the chariots of fire that surrounded Elisha.

    There are several reason why I believe the second temple was built according to Ezekiel's dimensions.

    1. The altar of the first temple was 20 cubits by 20 cubits and the dimensions of Ezekiel's temple was 24 cubits by 24 cubits. We find in the Talmud (Mishna - Mas. Middoth Chapter 3) that R. Jose explains that when they came back from the captivity the altar in the second temple was enlarged on the North by four cubits and on the West by four cubits, making it the exact size as described in Ezekiel's dimensions. You will will find that the Porch's dimensions were also changed in the second temple to fit Ezekiel's dimensions.

    2. Ezekiel was told four times that the sons of Zadok would be in charge of that temple. It is well documented that the sons of Zadok were in fact in charge of the second temple. Ezra was in fact one of those sons.

    Ezekiel 43:19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering.

    Does anyone believe that God would again institute bulls for a sin offering after God offered up his Son?


    But what do you do with the passage below if this was meaning the 2nd temple?

    Ezekiel 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
    8 In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
    9 Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

    I would think verse 9 would have to occur first, then this part...the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

    So how did God dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever via the 2nd temple, being it is no longer standing?

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    Re: Should the Christian expect a Temple made of stone and mortar to be erected in Je

    Quote Originally Posted by Redeemed by Grace View Post
    Hi Rejoice,

    It sounds like you lean towards to a form of dispensationism. For me, I see God working many paths, that of correcting Israel and that of building the church. So as with Israel's sin of rejecting Jesus [their Messiah], God scattered them at the destruction of the temple in AD70. As Daniel asks and prophesied, the last week of years is still waiting to happen before all Israel will be 'saved'.

    I believe that as with multiple economies in the world today, that within the Millennial Kingdom of the future, there will be Jews who will believe and see that God and Jesus , with David sitting in a side court on their respective thrones on earth... This is what I see written within Ezekiel.

    As to Matthew 24 and Daniel 9-11, I think that either a temple or a tabernacle will be reconstructed within the city of Jerusalem and that there will be devout Jews who will feel the need to return to their traditions of their fathers [Abraham and Moses] and offer up to God sacrifices as liken unto the 7 holiday feasts. The do this because they will want to 'come back' to Him in the only way they know how and thus will be the modern day devoutest of Jews.

    So all these years until AD1947, Israel did not have their land... Step one. Then in AD1968, Jerusalem became a Jewish city again. Now things get closer to the timing of the end. IF... a temple or tabernacle is reconstructed, or a 7 year treaty is signed with Israel and then a temple or tabernacle is reconstructed within Jerusalem... then I will have great anticipation as to what will transpire next.
    I know that God is not done with Israel, but will it be God's way or Israel's way.

    Do you think God will say to Israel, I have fulfilled the feasts, I have sent my Son to die for your sins, but now that you have not only rejected my Son, but crucified Him as well, that God will say okay lets try this over, we can go back to sacrificing animals?

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