OSAS Question

[Colight]

Colight, I have to side with Bandit on this, here's why: the scriptures are contested by many concerning the meaning of this "Samuel" so I lean toward the medium was talking with a DEMON when the spirit of Samuel spoke... it was a LIE. Maybe because God has me serving in a Deliverance Ministry for several years now and the amount of demonic manifestations over the years has just made me VERY aware of their tactics and lies... I lean toward this medium was speaking to a demon and not Samuel, who was dead. HOWEVER, what can be discerned from the scripture is that the demon is of satan so when it said that Saul was going to be with him... I believe that was NOT a lie because all that God forsakes (as He did with Saul due to Saul's constant disobedience) aren't gonna be eternally with Him.

Yes the medium had a demon who was very happy that he now had the King of Israel under his Charms..
11 And the woman saith, `Whom do I bring up to thee?' and he saith, `Samuel--bring up to me.'


Then the REAL SPIRIT of SAMUEL REALLY DID RISE UP!!!!
HENCE WHY THE REACTION OF THE DEMON IS SO COMICAL..!!!!!

12 And the woman seeth Samuel, and crieth with a loud voice, and the woman speaketh unto Saul, saying, `Why hast thou deceived me--and thou Saul?'

She accused SAUL of being the one playing tricks!!!!!!!

The Bible is quite clear on this.. it is Samuel. (שמואל Shĕmuw'el) and the HEBREW states she saw (ראה ra'ah ) him .
Now when the Bible states something is so, suddenly now it is not so?

This is Hebrew, the Hebrew of the Bible is quite Clear, God used Hebrew as the languages of his chosen people.
So it is today a active Language, unlike the NT Greek.

Now after having to endure months and months of you and Watchman telling me not to limit the power of God..
you move to limit it and say he could not rise up the spirit of his dead saint??

The scripture you present is so contested as to the meaning that I'm surprised you would use it as support for OSAS.

There is not any contest.. She saw Samuel and he Spoke.
And the Demons in her screamed for this had never occurred before!!
Mean time Saul is bumbling along.. having to COMFORT THE WITCH for seeing a spirit!!!!!
She just saw a real dead spirit coming up.....
It really is all most a slap stick comedy in the Hebrew.

Tell me, would you "trust" a medium today and actually use what a "spirit" of a dead person spoke THROUGH a medium to you??

The same spirits that provided information to that women when King Saul was forcing her to divine info, are the same spirits providing information to mediums today.

If you even tried to gather info through a medium... well, let's just say, you said it the BEST:

Do you believe mediums speak with the actual spirits of those who are dead? If your answer is NO, then why believe that medium King Saul was speaking with was actually speaking with the spirit of Samuel??

God pulled a fast one on this demon, hence its reaction.
Scripture states she saw Samuel and he spoke.
This is not a fiction novel here.

[Slug1]

Yes the medium had a demon who was very happy that he now had the King of Israel under his Charms..
11 And the woman saith, `Whom do I bring up to thee?' and he saith, `Samuel--bring up to me.'


Then the REAL SPIRIT of SAMUEL REALLY DID RISE UP!!!!
HENCE WHY THE REACTION OF THE DEMON IS SO COMICAL..!!!!!

12 And the woman seeth Samuel, and crieth with a loud voice, and the woman speaketh unto Saul, saying, `Why hast thou deceived me--and thou Saul?'

She accused SAUL of being the one playing tricks!!!!!!!

The Bible is quite clear on this.. it is Samuel. (שמואל Shĕmuw'el) and the HEBREW states she saw (ראה ra'ah ) him .
Now when the Bible states something is so, suddenly now it is not so?

This is Hebrew, the Hebrew of the Bible is quite Clear, God used Hebrew as the languages of his chosen people.
So it is today a active Language, unlike the NT Greek.

Now after having to endure months and months of you and Watchman telling me not to limit the power of God..
you move to limit it and say he could not rise up the spirit of his dead saint??




There is not any contest.. She saw Samuel and he Spoke.
And the Demons in her screamed for this had never occurred before!!
Mean time Saul is bumbling along.. having to COMFORT THE WITCH for seeing a spirit!!!!!
She just saw a real dead spirit coming up.....
It really is all most a slap stick comedy in the Hebrew.



God pulled a fast one on this demon, hence its reaction.
Scripture states she saw Samuel and he spoke.
This is not a fiction novel here.

Sorry but no... I believe she did believe she was seeing the spirit of Samuel who is dead. The words in Hebrew point out what she was seeing, not that it was Samuel. She is deceived just as any who believe a divined spirit is the actual spirit of the person who is dead.

When the Bible tells me it's a sin to speak with the dead I believe that so I ask that you divide what you reason in what you just wrote with other scriptures that tells us that to speak with the dead is a sin. So, like I said... SORRY but no. She believed it was actually Samuel (the Bible is clear to use the name "Samuel" in Hebrew) because deception is that powerful when it comes to the demonic. Thus the need for God to provide supernatural gifts, like the Gift of Discernment to see through the deception and see a demon for what it really is.

[Colight]

Sorry but no... I believe she did believe she was seeing the spirit of Samuel who is dead. The words in Hebrew point out what she was seeing, not that it was Samuel. She is deceived just as any who believe a divined spirit is the actual spirit of the person who is dead.

When the Bible tells me it's a sin to speak with the dead I believe that so I ask that you divide what you reason in what you just wrote with other scriptures that tells us that to speak with the dead is a sin. So, like I said... SORRY but no. She believed it was actually Samuel because deception is that powerful when it comes to the demonic. Thus the need for God to provide supernatural gifts, like the Gift of Discernment to see through the deception and see a demon for what it really is.

1 sam 28
15 And Samuel saith unto Saul, `Why hast thou troubled me, to bring me up?' And Saul saith, `I have great distress, and the Philistines are fighting against me, God hath turned aside from me, and hath not answered me any more, either by the hand of the prophets, or by dreams; and I call for thee to let me know what I do.'
16 And Samuel saith, `And why dost thou ask me, and Jehovah hath turned aside from thee, and is thine enemy?

The BIBLE also states Samuel.. Spoke..
And he SPOKE DIRECTLY to SAUL.. not thru the witch ...
Therefore it is solid.
THIS IS SAMUEL!!!

[Slug1]

This is not a fiction novel here.

You are making it out to be a best seller

[Slug1]

1 sam 28
15 And Samuel saith unto Saul, `Why hast thou troubled me, to bring me up?' And Saul saith, `I have great distress, and the Philistines are fighting against me, God hath turned aside from me, and hath not answered me any more, either by the hand of the prophets, or by dreams; and I call for thee to let me know what I do.'
16 And Samuel saith, `And why dost thou ask me, and Jehovah hath turned aside from thee, and is thine enemy?

The BIBLE also states Samuel.. Spoke..
Therefore it is solid.
THIS IS SAMUEL!!!

Believe what you want, spin it anyway you want too. The Bible is solid in that it's a sin to speak with the dead...why? Because it's not the dead speaking, it's satan's forces of darkness speaking... not the spirit of a dead person.

Any Christian who thinks otherwise and justifies anything other than that (it's a sin and isn't done or trusted AT ALL)... will have to go through a fruit test. Bible says it's a sin to speak with the dead, so anyone who trusts the speaking with the dead, don't add up to good fruit.

But then, anyone believing in the OSAS doctrine is FORCED to believe they have nothing to fear for supporting this sin... right?

[Colight]

Believe what you want, spin it anyway you want too. The Bible is solid in that it's a sin to speak with the dead...why? Because it's not the dead speaking, it's satan's forces of darkness speaking... not the spirit of a dead person.

Any Christian who thinks otherwise and justifies anything other than that (it's a sin and isn't done or trusted AT ALL)... will have to go through a fruit test. Bible says it's a sin to speak with the dead, so anyone who trusts the speaking with the dead, don't add up to good fruit.

But then, anyone believing in the OSAS doctrine has nothing to fear for supporting this sin... right?

This is what Saul did and it is sinful.
He had witches killed, now he went to a witch.

The one time in the entire history of man kind a real dead man came forth and the witch freaks out.

This as written the the WORD OF GOD.. and it is the WORD OF GOD so you best straighten yourself out and take a knee and listen.
The WORD OF GOD states that SAUL and HIS SONS Joined Samuel in Paradise.
THE WORD OF GODS STATES in this CASE a fast one was pulled on this witch.

There is nothing IN MY POSTS about making going to witches as not sinful.. nor is speaking with the dead endorsed.

Pull your self together.

[Slug1]

This is what Saul did and it is sinful.
He had witches killed, now he went to a witch.

The one time in the entire history of man kind a real dead man came forth and the witch freaks out.

This as written the the WORD OF GOD.. and it is the WORD OF GOD so you best straighten yourself out and take a knee and listen.
The WORD OF GOD states that SAUL and HIS SONS Joined Samuel in Paradise.
THE WORD OF GODS STATES in this CASE a fast one was pulled on this witch.

NO... what the Word of God states is the deception that a spirit calling itself Samuel, spoke to King Saul... deception that is deceiving you as well.

King Saul joined that spirit all right... immediately after throwing himself on his sword, he joined that so called... Samuel.

[Colight]

NO... what the Word of God states is the deception that a spirit calling itself Samuel, spoken to King Saul... deception that is deceiving you as well.

You have a right to be wrong.
For me I will take this branch of the path.. you go your way on this.

[Slug1]

You have a right to be wrong.
For me I will take this branch of the path.. you go your way on this.

You know the deal dude... anything false posted on the board MUST be brought to the light.

I'm not going anywhere or turning off to some other branch of another path, I'm standing firm.

As I edited that last post... I'm sure King Saul did join this "Samuel" immediately after he threw himself on his sword and killed himself. That final act really adds up with the context of scripture and people landing in heaven.

Seems King Saul was setup for that fall and had no fear to die.

[Colight]

You know the deal dude... anything false posted on the board MUST be brought to the light.

I'm not going anywhere but standing firm.

As I edited that last post... I'm sure King Saul did join this "Samuel" immediately after he threw himself on his sword and killed himself.

We each work out our own salvation.
We must stand alone before Christ for review.
I am ok with this, you are not.. that is fine.
(aka: I have made my points you have made yours off to next topic and let the rest of the posters dig in )

[Slug1]

I am ok with this, you are not.. that is fine.

You know me, I'm perfectly fine... I worry about those reading stuff like what you just wrote over the last few post. Thus the need to refute ya.

[Bandit]

Hello Slug1 and Colight,

Sorry to be absent all day, I'm kind of busy for the next day or two. But my two cents concerning the Samuel 28 passage in question is that there are two big hurdles which Colight's interpretation must overcome. The first would be the identity of the spirit, and the second would be the meaning of the spirit's words when it said, "tomorrow you and your sons will be with me." There are a number of issues with this spirit being Samuel; I would recommend researching this if you are interested. But for me, the biggest problem is that if this was Samuel, then why does it appear that the prophecy he gave got the date wrong? If the order of events in Samuel 28 to 31 is correct, then Saul did not die the next day; the battle in which Saul was killed was at least two or three days later if not more. To me, that right there (along with other issues) pushes the scales toward the conclusion that this was not Samuel. If Samuel had actually said those words, Saul would have died the next day, but if the appearent chronology is to be trusted, then he actually died a few days later. And the 2nd problem is, even if one were to believe this was Samuel, that his words could mean nothing more than Saul and his sons would join the realm of the dead. So, Colight, this is a very shaky passage which to build upon.

[Colight]

You know me, I'm perfectly fine... I worry about those reading stuff like what you just wrote over the last few post. Thus the need to refute ya.

Refute away.. test your faith..
Build upon Christ..
He will be the one to test your works and beliefs.. Not me.

I wish you to have great success, thus why I post what I must, take it or leave it.
It is not me you will answer too. I will not answer to you.

Maybe some where something I post will help you advance, this item was not that item.
Some time I will perhaps find that item for you.

[Colight]

Hello Slug1 and Colight,

Sorry to be absent all day, I'm kind of busy for the next day or two. But my two cents concerning the Samuel 28 passage in question is that there are two big hurdles which Colight's interpretation must overcome. The first would be the identity of the spirit, and the second would be the meaning of the spirit's words when it said, "tomorrow you and your sons will be with me." There are a number of issues with this spirit being Samuel; I would recommend researching this if you are interested. But for me, the biggest problem is that if this was Samuel, then why does it appear that the prophecy he gave got the date wrong? If the order of events in Samuel 28 to 31 is correct, then Saul did not die the next day; the battle in which Saul was killed was at least two or three days later if not more. To me, that right there (along with other issues) pushes the scales toward the conclusion that this was not Samuel. If Samuel had actually said those words, Saul would have died the next day, but if the appearent chronology is to be trusted, then he actually died a few days later. And the 2nd problem is, even if one were to believe this was Samuel, that his words could mean nothing more than Saul and his sons would join the realm of the dead. So, Colight, this is a very shaky passage which to build upon.

Where are you getting your time line?
Endor is relatively close to where the battle would occur.

1 Samuel 31:
1 And the Philistines are fighting against Israel, and the men of Israel flee from the face of the Philistines, and fall wounded in mount Gilboa,
2 and the Philistines follow Saul and his sons, and the Philistines smite Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchishua, sons of Saul.
3 And the battle is hard against Saul, and the archers find him--men with bow--and he is pained greatly by the archers;4 and Saul saith to the bearer of his weapons, `Draw thy sword, and pierce me with it, lest they come--these uncircumcised--and have pierced me, and rolled themselves on me;' and the bearer of his weapons hath not been willing, for he is greatly afraid, and Saul taketh the sword, and falleth upon it.
5 And the bearer of his weapons seeth that Saul is dead, and he falleth--he also--on his sword, and dieth with him;
6 and Saul dieth, and three of his sons, and the bearer of his weapons, also all his men, on that day together.

[Slug1]

Where are you getting your time line?
Endor is relatively close to where the battle would occur.

1 Samuel 31:
1 And the Philistines are fighting against Israel, and the men of Israel flee from the face of the Philistines, and fall wounded in mount Gilboa,
2 and the Philistines follow Saul and his sons, and the Philistines smite Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchishua, sons of Saul.
3 And the battle is hard against Saul, and the archers find him--men with bow--and he is pained greatly by the archers;4 and Saul saith to the bearer of his weapons, `Draw thy sword, and pierce me with it, lest they come--these uncircumcised--and have pierced me, and rolled themselves on me;' and the bearer of his weapons hath not been willing, for he is greatly afraid, and Saul taketh the sword, and falleth upon it.
5 And the bearer of his weapons seeth that Saul is dead, and he falleth--he also--on his sword, and dieth with him;
6 and Saul dieth, and three of his sons, and the bearer of his weapons, also all his men, on that day together.

1 Sam 28:²⁰ Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, and was dreadfully afraid because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten no food all day or all night.

So this is leading into the day that Saul is to be killed.

1 Sam 29:⁹ Then Achish answered and said to David, “I know that you are as good in my sight as an angel of God; nevertheless the princes of the Philistines have said, ‘He shall not go up with us to the battle.’ ¹⁰ Now therefore, rise early in the morning with your master’s servants who have come with you.^[b] And as soon as you are up early in the morning and have light, depart.”¹¹ So David and his men rose early to depart in the morning, to return to the land of the Philistines. And the Philistines went up to Jezreel.

We are now in day two. So the message from the spirit of Samuel is a FALSE message.

1 Sam 30:1 Now it happened, when David and his men came to Ziklag, on the third day, that the Amalekites had invaded the South and Ziklag, attacked Ziklag and burned it with fire,

We are well past the timing of that message from the spirit... message is confirmed FALSE.

So... Colight, do you require more confirmation?