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Thread: OSAS Question

  1. #76
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggindeeper View Post
    He BORE the sins. he paid the price WE should have paid. He never failed at anything, nor will he. But the time WILL come when WE will be judged for things we have done or not done. Christ was not judged for sins that I, myself commit. Or sins that you commit.

    It is not only ludicrous but dangerous to think that we will never face judgment! It really would be a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    This is a great danger to people...to NOT have the fear of God before their eyes. Paul said:


    Romans 3:12-18
    12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

    14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

    15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

    16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

    17 And the way of peace have they not known:

    18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

    So if Christ was judged for the sins, why is there a need for us to be judged on top of what he has all ready been judged for?

    Was the judgement he did, lacking in any way that additional judgement of those sins was needed?

    The sinful body dies ... thru Adam all die..,


    1 cor 15:22
    for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,




    The spirit that goes to God is lacking that genetic link to Adam, basically the body linked to Adams sin remains rotting in the grave..

    Why would God then judge a spirit for sin.. when that spirit does not have the sin of Adam in it to be judged?

    Does sin travel with us into heaven to await judgement?

  2. #77
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggindeeper View Post
    [COLOR="#0000FF"] Christ was not judged for sins that I, myself commit. Or sins that you commit.
    So what sins was Christ Judged for?
    1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

    If he was judged for the sins of the WHOLE world.. would not that also include the sins of the unbeliever?

    Or does the WHOLE WORLD have a different definition than I take it for?

  3. #78
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Colight View Post
    So what sins was Christ Judged for?
    1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

    If he was judged for the sins of the WHOLE world.. would not that also include the sins of the unbeliever?

    Or does the WHOLE WORLD have a different definition than I take it for?
    That does not say Christ was JUDGED for our sin. Do you know the meaning of propitiation?

    I don't know what kind of church you go to, but I'm wondering where you get your teachings.
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

  4. #79
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggindeeper View Post
    That does not say Christ was JUDGED for our sin. Do you know the meaning of propitiation?

    I don't know what kind of church you go to, but I'm wondering where you get your teachings.
    Why draw the dagger?
    Why are you just being consistently rude and mean and lacking any respect for a fellow believer?

    There would be nothing with holding you from placing out the meaning as you see it for the word propitiation.

    Instead you attack my church and beliefs and hint in a snide remark.. that some how I and the church I fellowship at..are out of line..

    That frankly is WAY uncalled for.

  5. #80
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Colight View Post
    Why draw the dagger?
    Why are you just being consistently rude and mean and lacking any respect for a fellow believer?

    There would be nothing with holding you from placing out the meaning as you see it for the word propitiation.

    Instead you attack my church and beliefs and hint in a snide remark.. that some how I and the church I fellowship at..are out of line..

    That frankly is WAY uncalled for.
    So, you don't know the meaning of propitiation? Hint: It does not mean 'judged'!
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

  6. #81
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    Re: OSAS Question

    The judgement of Christ is very well documented in other scriptures.


    You can not be a atonement or sacrifice with out first having a judgement occurring.
    The work of Christ appeased Gods damnation of man because of sin.

    So now then.. back the the first question... was Christs work sufficient, or did he miss a few sins ...of whore-mongering, sorcerering, lieing and idolatering.

  7. #82
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by John 8:32 View Post
    Heb 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    Seeing as you quote this Scripture without comment, I expect that it is to be a defense of loosing your salvation.

    I need someone to explain if that is true, is it God who takes it away, or the person who turns his back on salvation?

    Again:

    I need someone to explain if that is true, is it God who takes it away, or the person who turns his back on salvation?

    This needs to be crystal clear, the above passages declare (if you believe them to support the idea that your salvation
    can be forfeited) that this is a one time deal, if it is lost that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be restored to the condition
    of being saved.

    These passages are addressing a person that has given mental assent to the gospel and the christian lifestyle.
    They understand it and live as though they have been converted, they imitate true believers, yet they do not commit themselves to it.

    The Scribes and the Pharasees were like the ones described in Hebrews, they agreed with the Law, they thought it good, thought the one who keeps the Law was saved, yet they were sinners inside (as Jesus demonstrated) they were not converted. He said their hearts were hardened yet they appeared righteous. They partook of all the things of God, yet parished unsaved.

    Life pattern is an important discriminator, christians sin no doubt, but they repent, they determine to stop because they know it greives the Holy Spirit by which they have been sealed as a guarantee of salvation. (see my previous post for Scriptures).
    Mark


    “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14

    (All Scripture quoted is from NKJV unless otherwise noted)

  8. #83

    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
    Seeing as you quote this Scripture without comment, I expect that it is to be a defense of loosing your salvation.

    I need someone to explain if that is true, is it God who takes it away, or the person who turns his back on salvation?

    Again:

    I need someone to explain if that is true, is it God who takes it away, or the person who turns his back on salvation?

    This needs to be crystal clear, the above passages declare (if you believe them to support the idea that your salvation
    can be forfeited) that this is a one time deal, if it is lost that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be restored to the condition
    of being saved.

    These passages are addressing a person that has given mental assent to the gospel and the christian lifestyle.
    They understand it and live as though they have been converted, they imitate true believers, yet they do not commit themselves to it.

    The Scribes and the Pharasees were like the ones described in Hebrews, they agreed with the Law, they thought it good, thought the one who keeps the Law was saved, yet they were sinners inside (as Jesus demonstrated) they were not converted. He said their hearts were hardened yet they appeared righteous. They partook of all the things of God, yet parished unsaved.

    Life pattern is an important discriminator, christians sin no doubt, but they repent, they determine to stop because they know it greives the Holy Spirit by which they have been sealed as a guarantee of salvation. (see my previous post for Scriptures).
    Sorry but I thought (and still do think) these particular scriptures are self-explanatory. They say what they say and no amount of comment from me or anyone else changes what they say.

  9. #84
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    Re: OSAS Question

    If this doctrine was accurate in that a person's belief in Christ is SECURE... then why is God giving this warning?

    Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christian’s life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


  10. #85
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by John 8:32 View Post
    Sorry but I thought (and still do think) these particular scriptures are self-explanatory. They say what they say and no amount of comment from me or anyone else changes what they say.

    Heb 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
    Salvation is not how a saved person is to handle their sin. The Unbelievers are to turn to salvation once you are saved you cant not be re-saved, for you are all ready saved. Therefore another method must be used for believer to restore fellowship that was lost by sin. This shows the TOTAL SECURITY of a believer in the FACT they are all ready secure in the position of salvation.


    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    See the Lord shall judge HIS people?
    Those are BELIEVERS..The lost are not HIS people..
    We can have comfort in the judgement of the Lord that we are HIS.
    Like a father who spanks his child, that child belongs to that father for him to have the authority to spank it.

    These are passages of SECURITY, not of insecurity,..

  11. #86
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    If this doctrine was accurate in that a person's belief in Christ is SECURE... then why is God giving this warning?

    Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
    So you go day by day not knowing if you've lived up to the standard and warnings put forth in Scripture right?
    Hopefully you don't pass away in a condition of unacceptance.

    What does it mean to be "sealed for the day of redemption" in the passage you quoted? Or is it against the rules of this thread that you just post Scripture with the same question repeatedly?
    Mark


    “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14

    (All Scripture quoted is from NKJV unless otherwise noted)

  12. #87
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    If this doctrine was accurate in that a person's belief in Christ is SECURE... then why is God giving this warning?

    Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
    Nothing from that passage would lead me to believe it is insecure..

    It is a passage of SECURITY. when one understands" you were sealed for the day of redemption" that does sound like a rather solid and long term sealing.

  13. #88
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    Re: OSAS Question

    If this doctrine was accurate in that a person's belief in Christ is SECURE... then why is God giving this warning?

    Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christian’s life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


  14. #89
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    Re: OSAS Question

    Is it accurate that we can trust Christ with all things? EVEN OUR SALVATION

    If we can TRUST Christ FOR SALVATION
    Then we can also TRUST Christ to keep our SALVATION

    If we don't trust in Christ for salvation, then by default, we must trust in our own works for salvation, and our works are without exception, REJECTED by THE Infinitely Just and Holy God.

    Once more, we can NOT TRUST our own effort to KEEP salvation, because ANY effort to KEEP salvation by man MUST be rejected by a JUST GOD.
    Just as any EFFORT by man on his own to gain salvation must be rejected by God.

    Again.. Man who is by all means imperfect can not hope to gain perfection thru works of imperfection.
    Imperfection can take some thing that is perfect and if they try to add their imperfection to that which is perfect and it will result in imperfection.
    This imperfection is not acceptable by perfection. Therefore If imperfect man could lose salvation..that would be the fastest way to lose it, is by working to keep it.


    Finally
    IF Christ does all that is needed for salvation then it is Christ that is to Glory for it.
    If man secures his salvation then it is the pride of man that gains the glory, for he thru his own effort saved him self.

    If CHRIST keeps us saved then Christ is to Glory.
    If man keeps him self saved then it is mans pride that gets the glory, for he kept him self saved.

  15. #90

    Re: OSAS Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Colight View Post
    Salvation is not how a saved person is to handle their sin. The Unbelievers are to turn to salvation once you are saved you cant not be re-saved, for you are all ready saved. Therefore another method must be used for believer to restore fellowship that was lost by sin. This shows the TOTAL SECURITY of a believer in the FACT they are all ready secure in the position of salvation.




    See the Lord shall judge HIS people?
    Those are BELIEVERS..The lost are not HIS people..
    We can have comfort in the judgement of the Lord that we are HIS.
    Like a father who spanks his child, that child belongs to that father for him to have the authority to spank it.

    These are passages of SECURITY, not of insecurity,..
    Why would God judge His people if thye are eternally secure? Truth is we are judged right now anyhoo...

    1 Pet 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?

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