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Thread: Jesus and God the Father's Will

  1. #31
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    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    MOD NOTE: Please stay on topic. Start a new thread if you must.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  2. #32

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, they are not one in the same and Jesus is not God the Father, his own Father. They are two different individuals. Jesus is only referred to as a Father because he is our Father.

    If they were the same individual as you say, they would have the same will all the time but as we see in the garden, Jesus asked his Father (not himself) to change his mind about something showing there are two wills.

    John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will
    of him that sent me.

    Two wills.

    1)"mine own will"
    2)"the will of him that sent me"

    Also shown here.

    Jesus never came to do his own will, yet you are trying to tell me it was God the fathers will for the son to go to the cross, yet it was not the Son's will to go to the cross and He tried to change God the fathers will to His will???

    Then you quote
    John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will
    of him that sent me.
    lol I am going to quote it because it says Jesus never came to do his own will.... NOT to do His will(even though you say He did), But the Will of Him whom sent Him
    John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will
    of him that sent me.
    Notice the
    for I came down from heaven
    so we have Jesus explaining that when He left heaven it was to walk in His fathers will, His life and Will did not begin in Bethlehem, He was in heaven before His birth, He knew his purpose and will before He left heaven, actually before creation would Be accurate, There was never any two wills opposed to each other Jesus explained numerous times His will and that of the Fathers was one and the same.

    John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will
    of him that sent me.
    It is foretold throughout the old testament, that the redeemer would come and redeem his people being crucified on a tree as payment for their sins, maybe if Jesus had a better understanding of the Word, He would have known Gods will and His purpose for coming to earth??? And therefore not even ask God to change his will???

  3. #33

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    Jesus never came to do his own will, yet you are trying to tell me it was God the fathers will for the son to go to the cross, yet it was not the Son's will to go to the cross and He tried to change God the fathers will to His will???
    Yes. For a moment Christ asked if there was another way.



    There was never any two wills opposed to each other Jesus explained numerous times His will and that of the Fathers was one and the same.
    The two wills were not the same in the garden when Christ asked his Father to allow that cup to pass from him.




    It is foretold throughout the old testament, that the redeemer would come and redeem his people being crucified on a tree as payment for their sins, maybe if Jesus had a better understanding of the Word, He would have known Gods will and His purpose for coming to earth??? And therefore not even ask God to change his will???
    He did ask his Father to change his will, 3 times...read it yourself:

    Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
    Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
    Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
    Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
    Mat 26:43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
    Mat 26:44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

    The Father wanted Christ to drink of this metaphoric cup. Jesus asked three times to not drink of it if his Father would agree. Jesus was always willing to do as his Father wished but he did ask the Father to change his mind on this.

  4. #34

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Jesus was always willing to do as his Father
    wished but he did ask the Father to change his mind on
    this.
    Jesus was not always willing to do as his Father wished and the evidence is the fact that he knew the Father's will required him to drink from that cup even while he asked to avoid it!

    Remember Jesus's sinlessness was contingent upon his obedience to the Father's will which means he had to know it at all times.

  5. #35

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by jasoncohen View Post
    Jesus was not always willing to do as his Father wished and the evidence is the fact that he knew the Father's will required him to drink from that cup even while he asked to avoid it!
    That example doesn't help you. Jesus is clear he will do whatever the Father decides.


    Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

  6. #36

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That example doesn't help you. Jesus is clear he will do whatever the Father decides.


    Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
    But the point is he already knew the Father's decision which was that he go to the cross. He had to know it to remain sinless.

  7. #37

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by jasoncohen View Post
    But the point is he already knew the Father's decision which was that he go to the cross. He had to know it to remain sinless.
    COUNTERPOINT: he knew it, but he asked his Father to change his mind....IF THE FATHER WOULD...JESUS WAS OK with a yes or a no.

  8. #38

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    COUNTERPOINT: he knew it, but he asked his Father to change his mind....IF THE FATHER WOULD...JESUS WAS OK with a yes or a no.
    Okay okay tell me, how could he ask the Father to change his mind if he already knew what the Father's answer would be. This is a contradiction. If I sit down to take a test and I already know the answers, why would I ask the teacher to change the answers.

  9. #39

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by jasoncohen View Post
    Okay okay tell me, how could he ask the Father to change his mind if he already knew what the Father's answer would be.
    He didn't know the answer ahead of time, which is why he asked three times.

  10. #40

    Re: Jesus and God the Father's Will

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    He didn't know the answer ahead of time, which is why he asked three times.
    If he didn't know the answer then he didn't know God's will which I'm sure we both agree was impossible. And he asked 3 times for the same reason he was sweating blood: he didn't want to go to the cross in contrast to the Father's will.

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