Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

[glad4mercy]

The problem we have to focus on is the curses he's been speaking out against any brother/sister of his who are in Christ and stumble against the flesh and commit a sin.

I did not realize he had done this. I apologize for the oversight. I probably should have read more carefully

None of us can be sinless... we all can avoid/overcome lusts and sin through Jesus, but we can NEVER be sinless. The lusts are ALWAYS in the flesh and to be sinless means that those lusts are NOT IN THE FLESH. To believe that ALL lust is removed and a person is sinless, that they will NEVER again have to deal with any lusts of the flesh... to believe this means they are deceived.

I agree that temptation will always be there, but there's an old saying that the birds will fly overhead, just don't let them build a nest in your hair. Yet I do claim to be sinless. I am just saying that we never have to yield to temptation, though you already know that. I also agree with you because of the fact that I realize that even if we get the lusts of the flesh wrapped up through the grace of Christ, we still have to ever be on guard against the sins of the spirit like spiritual pride, self-confidence, judging others in our hearts, complacency, etc. I tried to demonstrate this in my posts as well

satan WANT'S Christians to believe that they are sinless because then they don't HAVE to actively submit to Jesus to help them avoid/overcome their flesh I agree. The power of the flesh has been destroyed, but our will has not. So we need to daily submit our will to Christ.

This point must be STRESSED... otherwise, others who are reading through this thread may be deceived also.

That, we cannot allow to happen. Yes, I see your point.

[glad4mercy]

That is so true --- Jesus said "Every branch that bears fruit, He prunes, that it bears more fruit." We may not like the "pruning", 'cause it often hurts; but bearing more fruit for Him brings Him more glory, and is a greater privilege for us in our service to Him.
HAVE we "overcome"? Technically, HE is the overcomer --- "In this world you will have tribulation; but take courage, for I have overcome the world." Jn16:33.

We are overcomers, because He overcomes the world through us. It all gets back to "how close we are to Him". Though the battle was already won from atop the Cross, we are more triumphant personally, the more personally we walk with Him.

"He WHO overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not erase his name from the Book of Life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Rev3:5.

He who overcomes. He who draws near to God that God draws near to him (James4:8-10), he who humbles himself before God that God exalts him in God's own glory. He in whom the Overcomer dwells, and overcomes the world (has already, if we but receive Him and dwell in Him).

Sing His praises before the world. Lift His name above all, for He is worthy. Let His cleansing and His righteousness wash through your soul. For He is perfect, and perfect love; love great enough to lay down His life for each of us. Love that will save us, if we will love Him back.

"The Lord is my strength, and my song, and has become my salvation." Psalm118:14.

Join the symphony of His love and His creation. Sing His song of life with all your heart and soul! Let His light shine brightly to the world, that more and more will desire Him and turn to Him too! "Present the members of your body as instruments of righteousness, as we present ourselves to God as those alive from the dead." (Rm6:13) And the Spirit will use these instruments to play a beautiful melody of love!

Amen, brother. The closer we are in relationship and intimacy with Jesus the more we will become like Him.

[PJW]

DaniH post 460,
What greater testimony can I bring than that Jesus has freed me from committing sin? That He has not allowed me to be tempted above what I can handle? That He has given me the grace and strength, not to mention the words, to battle such opposition to holiness?
He has allowed me to love men enough to pray that they will turn from the darkness they defend and to the Light.
Are you "praying" that I will turn from the light, and back to darkness? You will have to turn from all sin before you pray, because, "God heareth not sinners." (John 9:31)

[PJW]

Chad post 459,
The KJV bible says, "ye which ARE spiritual,...". (Gal 6:1) The sinner is not spiritual, he is of the flesh. Without repentance, illustrated by his confession, he is lost.
A Christian "can" sin, but if he does love God more than himself, he won't sin. It's the sinners who sin. Those who have elevated their own lusts above God. Those people are not in Christ.

[Ace]

That's why 50% Christians will not make it to the end.

I will never leave you or forsake you Heb 13:5

For the sake of his great name the LORD will not reject his people, because the LORD was pleased to make you his own.
1 Sam 12:22.

[PJW]

Slug1 post 462,
The people you refer to, the sinners, are not my brothers and sisters in Christ. Those who choose sin have a different father than I. Did you read your post before posting? You say, "None of us can be sinless...we can all avoid/overcome lusts and sin..."
Which is it? Yes or no?
Jesus came, "that He might destroy the works of the devil." (I Jo 3:8) He did and I am testimony of that FACT.
If being called a sinner is a "curse" to you, how do you think the Pharisees felt?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh WITH THE AFFECTIONS AND LUSTS." (Gal 5:24)

[Slug1]

Are you "praying" that I will turn from the light, and back to darkness?

You are playing games because NO HOW can what she said be turned into what you just asked UNLESS they are playing games.

You will have to turn from all sin before you pray, because, "God heareth not sinners." (John 9:31)

PJW... if God can't hear sinners...

1) How does He hear them when they seek Him as they begin to hear the message of the Gospel. They are STILL in sin when they begin to listen to the Gospel. All are sinners before they accept Jesus and you just used that scripture (out of context) to say (in error) that He can't hear them due to their sin, how can they repent of sin to accept Him... if He's not hearing them?

2) How does a Christian who fails against temptation and sins... repent of that sin later during their walk and relationship with Christ?

[Ace]

PJW, You believe the way to get to Heaven is by getting baptized correct? If so I have a question for you.

[Dani H]

DaniH post 460,
What greater testimony can I bring than that Jesus has freed me from committing sin?

How about Jesus raised me from DEATH to LIFE?

I have a little secret for you: Even a person who is not born again CAN stop sinning. It takes no saint to not sin. Even a sinner, does not HAVE to sin. Everyone CHOOSES to.

God told Cain: "Master sin."

Cain was NOT born again! Yet, God expected Cain to NOT sin.

In the Old Testament, before there WAS a born-again, God still expected people to not sin.

Just because we're all confined under it and because we all have it, doesn't mean we all HAVE to give in to it.

Hello?

There is no medal and no brownie points in not sinning, for anyone; saint OR sinner.

God's true glory is in the RESURRECTION from DEATH to LIFE. That is what makes me a saint and a new creation!

How bout them apples?

[PJW]

Saved7 post 465,
Do you really want to live without sin?
It starts with repentance. Turn from ALL sin. Denying the flesh is the crucifixion of the body of sin.
Baptism in water is next. Baptism is the burial of the now dead flesh. Rising from the water is the rebirth. A NEW man has come forth, one born of the Word of God.
You should then start praying earnestly for the gift of the Holy Ghost. As a non-sinner, God hears your prayers. He will bestow this gift to you.
New flesh, new mind, new Spirit.
God's word says, "And He gave some apostles; and some, prophets; and some evangilists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." (Eph 4
:"11-12)
Seek righteousness and you will be filled. (Matt 5:6) God will supply your needs for the remainder of your journey.

[PJW]

Slug1 post 472,
DaniH said she was praying for me.
If a man turns away from ALL sin, he is a non-sinner. God hears non-sinners. (Jo 9:31)

[chad]

It is one thing to hold to a belief that a Christian can not sin and another to start saying that believers if they commit sin are no longer a Christian or never were in the first place or are not true Christians.

You have gone from belief in a position into judgement, and if you are going to judge, then there should be a clear scriptural basis for doing so. Unfortunately, the belief that a Christian can no longer sin does not hold up in light of what is written in the bible and what has been presented throughout this thread.

If we are therefore going to judge others, then that standard which we judge should then be applied back to those who are judging, which is what I see some posts are doing in order to show brother pwj how harsh and condemning a belief that ‘If a Christian sin – he is no longer a Christian or never was in the first place or is a false Christian’ is, when there is clear scripture which shows a Christian can sin and they can be forgiven and restored.

The issue may not be a misunderstanding of scripture, but pride. Is it pride that causes a person to reject scripture and hold to a certain position, especially when one prides themselves in actions such as not sinning.

The problem we have to focus on is the curses he's been speaking out against any brother/sister of his who are in Christ and stumble against the flesh and commit a sin. I did not realize he had done this. I apologize for the oversight. I probably should have read more carefully

I did not realize he had done this. I apologize for the oversight. I probably should have read more carefully

[PJW]

Ace post473,
I believe all of God's word. Baptism is part of faith toward God.

[PJW]

DaniH post 474,
Some people can't sin. They are in comas. Some don't do crime because they are afraid of the civil law. Nobody who is in the flesh, like non-believers, can live without sin.
Got a scripture for "Master sin"?
Cain was before the Mosaic Law. Without the law there is no sin, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin".(Ro3:20)
God knew from before time was, that the Mosaic Law could not make a man perfect. Thats why Jesus came, to fulfil the Law.
I used to be dead, to trespasses and sin. I am alive now. I am without sin. Jesus is not ashamed to call me brother.

[Slug1]

Slug1 post 462,
The people you refer to, the sinners, are not my brothers and sisters in Christ. Those who choose sin have a

different father than I.

Anyone who accepts Christ and are in the Body of Christ are your brothers and

sisters in Christ. They have the same Father in heaven. If they fail against temptation and confess this to you...

God wants you to pray for them (James 5:16)... you have continued to deny them and you continue to tell them that

due to a SINGLE sin... they are NO longer a Christian.

YOU ARE CURSING THEM!

Did you read your post before posting? You say, "None of us can be sinless...we can all avoid/overcome lusts

and sin..."
Which is it? Yes or no?
Jesus came, "that He might destroy the works of the devil." (I Jo 3:8) He did and I am testimony of that FACT.

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh WITH THE AFFECTIONS AND LUSTS." (Gal 5:24)

Define sinless then.

The way we all understand you is that there is NO MORE lust in the flesh that satan can exploit (a weakness) to try

to get a person to sin.

The Bible tells us the sin is always there, thus you can't be SINLESS. Any Christian CAN avoid/overcome that sin...

through Jesus. But the lusts/sin of the flesh is STILL there.

Anyone who says that are without sin are deceived and call Jesus a liar.

So define what you mean that you are "SINLESS".

If being called a sinner is a "curse" to you, how do you think the Pharisees felt?

It's clear that

You still don't understand...