Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

[MoreMercy]

Howdy, PJW

I think is very healthy for a soul to not make any excuse at all for any sin at all, even the little oops that most of us have turned into a nonchalant daily oops confession.
That can to easily turn into christians using His grace and mercy toward us, as a loophole for us to sin because we claim we are still "babes" in Christ or we claim we are still "growing" into His likeness.
Those who are comfortable claiming or using that or those excuses of their own selfish sins are abusing and shaming themselves to the sacrificed blood of God's own offered sacrifice for them, for them to avoid His just and deserved wrath of eternal separation from partaking of His fellowship with them.

The mystery that Paul speaks of, of: "us in Christ and Christ in us" is what I will point to here, now.

Christ's work done on behalf of those who decide to disciple themselves to Him, that work of Christ only sets them free from the penalty and wages of sin.
The bondage that Christ broke by Christ completing that said work, that bondage is the bondage to the law of death and sin.
The law of death and sin is: disobey God's words and there is a penalty to pay, and the penalty is eternal separation from fellowship with our Creator.

The perfect and sinless life that Christ Jesus lived among us while He walked in a flesh body is what Father requires to be an acceptable sacrifice freely offered to Him for mankind to be restored back into that position of eternal fellowship with Him our Creator.

Christ Jesus fulfilled those requirements for who-soever will decide to follow/disciple themselves to His teachings and corrections.

We "christians" are to wear Christ's righteousness we wear/put-on His righteousness to cover our filth from His Father's eyes to avoid His Father's just wrath upon us. That said wrath is eternal separation from Him our Creator.
We do not wear our own righteousness to cover our filth from His Father's eyes, we wear Christ's righteousness to cover our filth from His Father's eyes.

We claim and abide under Christ's faithful obedience to His Father's every word to avoid His Father's just wrath.
We do not claim or even point to our own faith an obedience to His Father's every word, we claim and point to Christ's faith an obedience to His Father's every word, because we cannot be faithful nor obedient to His Father's every word.
Jesus and His Father both said we cannot keep or obey His every word, and says that if a man claims He can or does keep and obey His every word, then that man calls God a liar...
(I would not ignore their words there, just to lift or wear my own righteousness to cover my filth from Father's eyes)

After saying all of that, I want to say this again too because this is why Paul calls "Christ in us n we in Christ" a mystery:
I think is very healthy for a soul to not make any excuse at all for any sin at all, even the little oops that most of us have turned into a nonchalant daily oops confession.
That can to easily turn into christians using His grace and mercy toward us, as a loophole for us to sin because we claim we are still "babes" in Christ or we claim we are still "growing" into His likeness.
Those who are comfortable claiming or using that or those excuses of their own selfish sins are abusing and shaming themselves to the sacrificed blood of God's own offered sacrifice for them, for them to avoid His just and deserved wrath of eternal separation from partaking of His fellowship with them.



Father bless those who look to you, but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.

[Slug1]

Oh, and a prayer for accepting Christ is not of the bible: or wouldn't Paul have been cited as using it?

Now if a person prays their acceptance of Christ... that don't work for you?

Oh, I know all it takes is belief and acceptance of Christ... I have a whole thread on the topic somewhere. Yet, a person "can" pray their belief and acceptance... right?

Or since such a prayer isn't in the Bible... if they "pray" their acceptance of Christ as their Savior... they aren't in Christ after the prayer?

[Slug1]

Sanctify, To make holy, purify, consecrate, hallow, be holy. (Strongs concordance.
Peter said, "Repent, (turn from, change) and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (wash away your old sins) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:38-39)

I know... this is why I mentioned sanctification... does it happen in the moment (never sin again) after accepting Christ? Or does it happen over time as people learn to walk as a new creation as they learn to resist the devil, or escape from temptation?

[glad4mercy]

There are at least three Laws spoken of in Romans 7-8. There is the Law of Moses, the law of sin and death, and the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The Law of Moses is the minimum requirements of God, it's purpose is to show us that we are sinners. The law of sin and death is the sin nature that wars against us and brings us into captivity, so that when we try to keep the Law of God in our own strength we fail and fail and fail again. It is a spiritual principle, just like the Law of Gravity is a physical Law. The third law is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. The way this law works is that it deprives the Law of sin and death of it's power, so if we walk in the Spirit, sin has no more dominion over us. So the Law of sin , if unchecked, deprives us of the power to obey God as we ought, but the Law of the Spirit of Life can cancel out the Law of sin and death, and even more than that it fills us with the Love of Christ, so that we an even higher Law than that of Moses can be fulfilled in us, that is the Perfect Law of Liberty and Love in Christ Jesus, . For Moses commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves, Christ commands us to love others as He loved us. The Law of Christ is not burdensome, for it is the Law of Love.

[glad4mercy]

There are at least three Laws spoken of in Romans 7-8. There is the Law of Moses, the law of sin and death, and the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The Law of Moses is the minimum requirements of God, it's purpose is to show us that we are sinners. The law of sin and death is the sin nature that wars against us and brings us into captivity, so that when we try to keep the Law of God in our own strength we fail and fail and fail again. It is a spiritual principle, just like the Law of Gravity is a physical Law. The third law is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. The way this law works is that it deprives the Law of sin and death of it's power, so if we walk in the Spirit, sin has no more dominion over us. So the Law of sin , if unchecked, deprives us of the power to obey God as we ought, but the Law of the Spirit of Life can cancel out the Law of sin and death, and even more than that it fills us with the Love of Christ, so that an even higher Law than that of Moses can be fulfilled in us, that is the Perfect Law of Liberty in Christ Jesus. Moses commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves, Christ commands us to love others as He loved us. The Law of Christ is not burdensome, for it is the Law of Love.

[PJW]

I like the way you're thinking here, g4m. (if i may be so bold) But the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is not a higher law, but a fulfilment of the Mosaic Law.
Slug1,
The atonement happened in an instant, on the cross. When the blood of Jesus washes away your sin, you have been purified in baptism, that is instant. Why would Jesus not totally free us from sin and the flesh instantly, but make His servants slowly come around to holiness over weeks and months and years?
We are the temple of the Holy Ghost, and no sin is in His temple. We, the church, are His body, flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone. (Eph 5:30) God loves us too much to let His children wallow around in sin while He makes us live with guilt and fear, as we try to please Him on earth. That would be unloving, wouldn't it?

[glad4mercy]

I like the way you're thinking here, g4m. (if i may be so bold) But the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is not a higher law, but a fulfilment of the Mosaic Law.

So you believe the teachings of Christ, like for example the Sermon on the mount, merely expound the Law's requirements and are not a higher and greater standard than the OT Law?

[PJW]

Yes, I believe the teachings of Jesus. The sermon on the mount is more of an observation than a teaching. There are no "thou shalts" but lots of "Blessed art"s. Jesus goes on to say that He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.
(Actually, I was only looking at Matt 5:1-20), but still, I don't think He taught anything more than the pure essence of the Law.

[glad4mercy]

Yes, I believe the teachings of Jesus. The sermon on the mount is more of an observation than a teaching. There are no "thou shalts" but lots of "Blessed art"s. Jesus goes on to say that He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.
(Actually, I was only looking at Matt 5:1-20), but still, I don't think He taught anything more than the pure essence of the Law.

I didnt doubt that you believe the teachings of Jesus, I wasnt questioning that. Actually, the parts that make me think that the Principles that Jesus lays out in the sermon go even above what the Law commanded is in Matthew 5: 21-48. Yet upon further reflection, it could be, (as I think you are saying), that Jesus is clarifying what the Law actually meant, and the fact that God not only looked on the externals of what we do, but also our hearts.

[Slug1]

Yes, I believe the teachings of Jesus. The sermon on the mount is more of an observation than a teaching. There are no "thou shalts" but lots of "Blessed art"s. Jesus goes on to say that He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.
(Actually, I was only looking at Matt 5:1-20), but still, I don't think He taught anything more than the pure essence of the Law.

You don't think that what Jesus taught as the "sermon" on the mount isn't one of the His greatest... TEACHINGS?

Is there something about all He taught to us that day that you don't agree with so you have decided to determine all He taught us is just... "an observation"?

Since you state that what He taught us that day IS only an observation... what parts don't you agree with?

So when pastors teach from the Bible and they are using scriptures from the sermon on the mount... are they also ONLY making observations to their flock?

[Noeb]

I like the way you're thinking here, g4m. (if i may be so bold) But the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is not a higher law, but a fulfilment of the Mosaic Law.
Slug1,
The atonement happened in an instant, on the cross. When the blood of Jesus washes away your sin, you have been purified in baptism, that is instant. Why would Jesus not totally free us from sin and the flesh instantly, but make His servants slowly come around to holiness over weeks and months and years?
We are the temple of the Holy Ghost, and no sin is in His temple. We, the church, are His body, flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone. (Eph 5:30) God loves us too much to let His children wallow around in sin while He makes us live with guilt and fear, as we try to please Him on earth. That would be unloving, wouldn't it?

great post! God bless you!

[Noeb]

Yes, I believe the teachings of Jesus. The sermon on the mount is more of an observation than a teaching. There are no "thou shalts" but lots of "Blessed art"s. Jesus goes on to say that He didn't come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.
(Actually, I was only looking at Matt 5:1-20), but still, I don't think He taught anything more than the pure essence of the Law.

Another great post!

[Noeb]

Yet upon further reflection, it could be, (as I think you are saying), that Jesus is clarifying what the Law actually meant, and the fact that God not only looked on the externals of what we do, but also our hearts.

This is how I see it.

[PJW]

Slug1,
These are "teachings", but I think that all these "precepts" have already been presented to the Jews, and now us, through the old testament. Jesus is telling us in an unclouded (without Pharisee/Sadducee) interpretation, what was expected of us (them) when the Law was originally delivered to Moses. Obey and be blessed! Don't hide your praise of God! I am the fulfilment of the Law! Obey "Love", not Pharisees! Love everybody, not just those who love you! Cast off the flesh! (Which wasn't possible till Jesus was crucified so we could be crucified with Him.
Be a blessing and you will be blessed!
Don't you love it!!!!!

[glad4mercy]

The atonement happened in an instant, on the cross. When the blood of Jesus washes away your sin, you have been purified in baptism, that is instant. Why would Jesus not totally free us from sin and the flesh instantly, but make His servants slowly come around to holiness over weeks and months and years?
We are the temple of the Holy Ghost, and no sin is in His temple. We, the church, are His body, flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone. (Eph 5:30) God loves us too much to let His children wallow around in sin while He makes us live with guilt and fear, as we try to please Him on earth. That would be unloving, wouldn't it?

I fully agree that God desires us to be fully sanctified and to possess our vessels in honor, but isnt it true that we first have to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive to Christ and secondly present ourselves and yield the members of our bodies to God as instruments of righteousness? In other words, holiness is what God saved us unto, but a life of holiness is not automatic, I think that we must make conscious decisions and take appropriate actions in order to "work out" what God has already "worked in".