Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

[Arrow]

Yeah... pretty much all the Apostles set that example and Paul was completely transparent about it too.

Good that we agree. I used to know many who were part of a sect that you could not sin, and the outcome was terrible.

[Slug1]

Good that we agree. I used to know many who were part of a sect that you could not sin, and the outcome was terrible.

I will assume they were all a bunch of milk drinking Christians deceived into thinking they were meat eating Christians based on their holy outer conduct following a churches checklist of what makes them holy and as long as they checked all the boxes on the list... they were without sin? They preached ONLY the holiness scriptures and ignored all others?

Doesn't do much for the inside of the cup. The above example falls under idolatry and many are under this bondage of deceit out there in the world.

[Arrow]

I will assume they were all a bunch of milk drinking Christians deceived into thinking they were meat eating Christians based on their holy outer conduct following a churches checklist of what makes them holy and as long as they checked all the boxes on the list... they were without sin? They preached ONLY the holiness scriptures and ignored all others?

Doesn't do much for the inside of the cup. The above example falls under idolatry and many are under this bondage of deceit out there in the world.

I am not sure which boxes they ticked, but they went into the hospital, and were pulling out people s drips and telling them to walk.

I didn t hear about any healings though.

[glad4mercy]

Good that we agree. I used to know many who were part of a sect that you could not sin, and the outcome was terrible.

The thing that we need to remember is that although the Bible does not teach instant perfection, it does teach the need for holiness. Some people turn the "everybody sins" into a license to sin, but this is contrary to sound teaching. Others overreact to this and go to the other extreme and teach that Christians never sin, and if they commit even one act of sin they either were not saved, or have lost their salvation and need to get saved again. Both of these views are extreme poles and are unbiblical. The Biblical view is that God made it possible to be free from all sin, and Jesus died in order to destroy the works of the devil, and so that sin could be condemned in our flesh. Now this does not mean that we will never ever sin, but it does mean that sin shall have no dominion over us. As we grow in Grace and Knowledge, we grow in virtue, holiness, love, faith, and goodness.

If Christians were made sinlessly perfect the moment they came to Christ and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, what happened to Peter and Barnabus in Galatians 2? No, God is molding us so that we can be conformed to the image of Christ. He that has begun a good work in you is faithful to complete it, but we must let patience have her perfect work so that we may be perfect and complete lacking nothing. If it were all instant, what need would there be of patience?

I believe that if we look at it this way, it ammounts to a view that is both Biblical and balanced.

[Arrow]

The thing that we need to remember is that although the Bible does not teach instant perfection, it does teach the need for holiness. Some people turn the "everybody sins" into a license to sin, but this is contrary to sound teaching. Others overreact to this and go to the other extreme and teach that Christians never sin, and if they commit even one act of sin they either were not saved, or have lost their salvation and need to get saved again. Both of these views are extreme poles and are unbiblical. The Biblical view is that God made it possible to be free from all sin, and Jesus died in order to destroy the works of the devil, and so that sin could be condemned in our flesh. Now this does not mean that we will never ever sin, but it does mean that sin shall have no dominion over us. As we grow in Grace and Knowledge, we grow in virtue, holiness, love, faith, and goodness.

If Christians were made sinlessly perfect the moment they came to Christ and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, what happened to Peter and Barnabus in Galatians 2? No, God is molding us so that we can be conformed to the image of Christ. He that has begun a good work in you is faithful to complete it, but we must let patience have her perfect work so that we may be perfect and complete lacking nothing. If it were all instant, what need would there be of patience?

I believe that if we look at it this way, it ammounts to a view that is both Biblical and balanced.

I will assume they were all a bunch of milk drinking Christians deceived into thinking they were meat eating

I agree with what you have said, and I think Slug1 agrees with you too by his quote above?

[glad4mercy]

I agree with what you have said, and I think Slug1 agrees with you too by his quote above?

Understood. I was not referring to anyone in particular in post 214, I was merely speaking in general terms for the purpose of clarifying our position.

[Slug1]

The thing that we need to remember is that although the Bible does not teach instant perfection, it does teach the need for holiness. Some people turn the "everybody sins" into a license to sin, but this is contrary to sound teaching. Others overreact to this and go to the other extreme and teach that Christians never sin, and if they commit even one act of sin they either were not saved, or have lost their salvation and need to get saved again. Both of these views are extreme poles and are unbiblical. The Biblical view is that God made it possible to be free from all sin, and Jesus died in order to destroy the works of the devil, and so that sin could be condemned in our flesh. Now this does not mean that we will never ever sin, but it does mean that sin shall have no dominion over us. As we grow in Grace and Knowledge, we grow in virtue, holiness, love, faith, and goodness.

If Christians were made sinlessly perfect the moment they came to Christ and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, what happened to Peter and Barnabus in Galatians 2? No, God is molding us so that we can be conformed to the image of Christ. He that has begun a good work in you is faithful to complete it, but we must let patience have her perfect work so that we may be perfect and complete lacking nothing. If it were all instant, what need would there be of patience?

I believe that if we look at it this way, it ammounts to a view that is both Biblical and balanced.

Amen... this is all about the milk to meat process. Some literally go from accepting Christ to what they believe is meat eating because that is what they are told. Jesus has just INITIATED the process upon coming into them and they must go through the milk process to get to the meat. Some go right into the meat and these are usually the ones who we read about in the Parable of the Sower as part of group #2,3.

[Slug1]

I am not sure which boxes they ticked, but they went into the hospital, and were pulling out people s drips and telling them to walk.

I didn t hear about any healings though.

Actually, that's worse than what I was assuming.

[glad4mercy]

I am not sure which boxes they ticked, but they went into the hospital, and were pulling out people s drips and telling them to walk.

I didn t hear about any healings though.

The thought of that made my heart sink.

[PJW]

So in all your years of "semi-holiness", have you ever met a "meat eating" person who had come to perfection?
One?
Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Then He said, "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jo 8:32, 34) The "truth" will free you from committing sin. What do you call a doctrine that can't free you from sin?
Are you free from committing sin? If not, then your doctrine must be the answer to the second last question.

[Slug1]

So in all your years of "semi-holiness", have you ever met a "meat eating" person who had come to perfection? One? Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Then He said, "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jo 8:32, 34) The "truth" will free you from committing sin. What do you call a doctrine that can't free you from sin? Are you free from committing sin? If not, then your doctrine must be the answer to the second last question.

Can a person who you would call... "semi-holy" be used by God as a vessel to do miracles that give glory to God?

I've talked with Christians who speak as you do and I asked them how God moves miraculously in their church or through them out on the streets and they were confused. Some didn't even believe that God was doing miracles today through the Body of Christ or that at any given moment, the Holy Spirit may manifest a Gift of the Holy Spirit. They straight up denied the Holy Spirit... they said that miracles weren't NEEDED in their church. So their defense in the fact that God wasn't moving supernaturally through them was due to the fact they were HOLY and didn't need God to do that.



They don't even realized it's NOT THEM that need God to do miracles... it's GOD who needs to do miracles so He can be glorified as He proves Himself real and also strengthens the faith of those experiencing Him in power. They actually believed that THEY didn't NEED to experience miracles in their church anymore... this is a DISCONNECT with God.

So much for their Holiness... they are BLINDED by it. Deceived!

The point... when God will move miraculously in a church full of both milk drinkers (those who may still be struggling) and meat eaters, compared to churches full of ONLY those who don't struggle in ANY WAY... why DON'T He move miraculously in churches full of people who are fully HOLY and not only don't sin no more, but CAN'T sin no more?

[DDGresham1]

"For if we sin willfully (the only kind of sin) after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. But a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Heb 10:26-27)
"But we are not of them who draw back into perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)

We aren't speaking of willfull sin. You still don't get it. There is not only one kind of sin. YOU added that to God's word which is against God.

[Slug1]

We aren't speaking of willfull sin. You still don't get it. There is not only one kind of sin. YOU added that to God's word which is against God.

Hooah, I was gonna point that out but got distracted. Any personal interpretation like that and then taught... it's what false teaching is ALL about.

[DDGresham1]

Hooah, I was gonna point that out but got distracted. Any personal interpretation like that and then taught... it's what false teaching is ALL about.

Yep. Many people read too much into the word as well. What does the word say? What does it not say? Are you adding anything to it? Ask these questions before professing the truth. You will be held accountable.

[glad4mercy]

We aren't speaking of willfull sin. You still don't get it. There is not only one kind of sin. YOU added that to God's word which is against God.

I agree. Sin is missing the mark. I don't think any of us can ever claim that we never miss the mark. Do we ever miss the mark in what we say? In our attitude? In our motives? Do we ever omit something that we should have done? To claim sinlessness, we would not only have to be free from all outward sin, but also all inward sin as well, and we not only would have to be eschewing all evil, but we would have to be performing every commandment that God has given us to perfection. I am striving for this, but I have not yet obtained. Let patience have her perfect work, that you may be perfect and entire, lacking nothing. And let us lay aside every weight and the sin that so easily besets us, and let us run the race with patience. Looking to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. For faithful is He to complete the good work that He has begun in us.