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Thread: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

  1. #571
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    RLG post 557,
    You say the penalty for sin is death, but Romans 6:23 says "The "wages of sin" is death". If you have been paid those wages you ARE dead. So how can a dead man satisfy his flesh with sin?
    Paul wrote, "Some men's sins are opened beforehand, going before to judgement; (death), and some men they follow after. (I Tim 5:24) "MY" fleshly body is gone and I have been re-born as a spiritual man, One without sin.
    The "it" of Phil 3:12 was the resurrection and the glorious body promised to the obedient. He says this in Phi 3:11, and in Phi3:21.
    I am not "paid those wages" I deserve. Though my fleshly body will die, yet shall I live in a glorified body with Christ eternally. My home and hearts desire is to be where He is. And His kingdom is not of this world. The provisions of grace described in the Bible are all provisions for imperfect and sinning men. The gospel is a religion for sinners, not for glorified saints.

  2. #572
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    Slug post 545,
    The two in the temple had both made the prescribed atonements for their sins. Why wouldn't God hear their prayers?
    The hypocrite had done just as he had been told to do. But, because the one was just going through the motions, it had no sincerity. He met the minimums, but...
    Sorta like folks that say they worship God on Sunday, then continue to disobey Him all week.
    And it was just a parable.
    Did you actually read the scripture? How can you say that "both" made the prescribed atonement for their sin?

    When Jesus explains that only the sinner was "justified" rather than the "other" who exalted himself instead.

    v14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

    What you understand of this scripture isn't correct then.

    Anyway... the point I want to help you with (besides understanding scripture)... you state that God don't hear ANY prayer from anyone who is a sinner.

    Do you think that based on the John 3:9:31 and the meaning of that single scripture, is that God don't hear specific "types" of prayers from people who are actively sinning?

    It's not the way you understand and state because all throughout the Bible God hears the prayers of sinners when they are about to accept Him, or are asking for forgiveness, or are repenting, or are crying out for His help so they can overcome temptation. God even INSTRUCTS Christians who trespass to pray (Lord's Prayer) or to go to others FOR prayer (James 5:16).

    Let me also toss this into the mix for understanding... God uses James to explain to us a very simple truth about prayer... we actually have two problems, 1) We don't ask or 2) we ask for the wrong reasons and God don't answer.

    So there are MORE reasons then just "sin" that causes God to not answer.

    A simple understanding from the James scriptures (James 4:2-3) shows us also something... God hears, He just don't answer such prayers.

    There will be prayers that you (PJW) ask and don't receive and the reason isn't because there may have been a thought in your head that wasn't aligned with God's holiness... it's because there is the possibility that you asked for a wrong reason.

    James goes on to explain to the "Christians" that he's speaking to... to stop being double-minded.

    So based on this... Christian's can be double-minded... this don't make them NOT a Christian, it makes them a disobedient Christian. Ones who are NOT in submission to God. One of the GREATEST scriptures in the Book of James in verse 7. I've been speaking about that verse ALL throughout this thread to you and it's about how you (PJW) are resisting the devil so successfully.

    ANY Christian can do the same if they only do what is explained in the 1st half of that scripture:

    v7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

    Q: How does a Christian resist the devil... ANSWER: SUBMIT TO GOD! Once the devil flees, that means no more temptation either.

    That don't mean NO MORE sin or lust in your flesh. Which is what you still declare about yourself. That is where the deception lies in you.

    All satan has to do is get near when you are weak (a time when you are not submitting to God 100%) and tempt you again. If you feel the temptation, that shows you that lusts are still in your flesh and the ONLY way to resist is to draw in closer (100%) to God once again.

    So to continue to maintain that you have no sin... shows the deception is still there. To remain righteous and blameless before God isn't that sin has been removed from you (it's always there), it's because you remain in SUBMISSION to God. That is the ONLY way to NOT sin... is through Jesus.
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christianís life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


  3. #573
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    Slug1,
    The sum total of your "counsel" is that nobody can truelly serve God as He deserves. The people reading, and joining you, are the ones looking for justification for their sinful lives.
    People, there is a way to serve God without offending Him in the least.
    If you want to keep sinning, it's your choice, but you don't have to.
    No one in this thread has JUSTIFIED their sin. I've even stated that I'd never justify sin, never have and never will either. So you can take that accusation against my character back... here, take that accusation card you dropped in this thread. I warned you that no cards will be dropped into this thread.

    Acknowledging that I can sin isn't about justifying sin as you just accused me of. Acknowledging that I can sin is what HUMBLENESS and repentance is ALL about. If I CAN'T acknowledge any SIN that I may do... then I can't humble myself before God, ask for forgiveness and receive His forgiveness. Without being about to acknowledge my sin, I can't even speak PARTS of the Lord's Prayer.

    That is the WHOLE reason that satan DECEIVES Christians into thinking that they HAVE NO SIN... a deceived person CAN'T acknowledge their sin which means they will not humble themselves, will not ask for forgiveness.

    So, with that accusation of character out of the way... let's move on.

    Service to God involves trust and faith in God as well. Not many in the Body of Christ would have the faith and trust in themselves to do all that God will have them do early in their walk. As they walk with Jesus continues and they mature and are molded, then they will do greater things. The Bible even tells us that we can do even greater things than Jesus. Yet, across the board... NOBODY has the faith or trust in God for the Body of Christ (as a whole) to SEE that scripture have much POWER. Some doubt that scripture, some disbelieve that scripture, some even explain it away to a completely different meaning.

    Anyway... just want to let you know that despite you being "sinless" you are making awful accusatory accusations against your brothers and sister's in Christ. You've so far your fruit shows that you've lied, condemned prayer (of those praying for you), cursed Christians, and falsely accused those helping you (false witnessing). I've missed some I'm sure... others may point out your fruit as well.

    On the flip (good) side... I commend your "words" of submission to God.

    I challenge too two things: [*1) and **2)]

    *1) I challenge you as the Apostles were challenged... through their submission to God they went out into the world to do ONE thing: MAKE Disciples!

    This is a two part process...

    1) Lead people to Christ.

    2) Disciple those who accept Christ. This involves FIXING deceived Christians.

    So far your fruit shows all the readers that you cannot DISCIPLE anyone who has accepted Christ.

    So MUCH SO is this is clearly evident that this leads one to assume two things:

    1) You have never been discipled properly.

    2) An element due to deception has cause self-righteousness to manifest in you.

    ONLY a Christian(you) who calls another Christian a Christian NO MORE because the Christian came to them (you) and confessed a sin and instead of them (you) praying for that Christian... they (you) curse them by telling them (the other Christian) that they are NO LONGER a Christian... this is a manifestation (fruit production) of SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Now, Challenge number **2)

    I challenge you to match your walk with your words. You SPEAK about submission to God but your fruit throughout this thread SHOWS something different.

    Double-mindedness is a problem all throughout the Body of Christ... so far in my experiences ALL who are double-minder will SPEAK as you speak and DO (in one way or another) as you are doing in this thread.

    Fruit reveals who a person IS on the INSIDE. Speaking correctly is a polished outside... DOING correctly is a changed inside confirmed with words that support the SAME as the walk. Bible is also clear that words reveals the true nature of the heart.

    You condemn others, you accuse others, you curse others, and you lie... your actions do not match your words.

    Is your heart... condemning, accusatory, and deceitful (lies/curses)????

    I have to ask because fruit reveals... MUCH!!
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christianís life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


  4. #574
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    DaniH
    "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we shaould not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6: 1-7)
    I know that Scripture. Everyone does. And?

    What's your point for posting it without an explanation???

    Do you not understand its explanation ?????

  5. #575
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    And it was just a parable.
    You do realize that there are ONLY two reasons why a Christian who follows the scriptures would say what you just said?

    1) They don't understand the parable, or

    2) They don't accept the parable because it's against a belief they'd rather hold to.

    Hmmmm, correction actually a reason 3...

    3) They are deceived and CAN'T accept the parable's meaning.
    Slug1--out

    ~Does Predestination mean: Once of the devil, Always of the devil?~

    ~Limitations in a Christianís life are due to limited prayer and limiting obedience~

    ~Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting that moment... it's all about freedom FROM that moment.~


    ~Your needs activate God's compassion and faith activates God's power~

    ~Three minutes is a lifetime, if you only have two, too live~


  6. #576

    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    Ace,
    If Christians follow Christ and not flesh, why would they satisfy the flesh? It means they are not following Christ, doesn't it?
    Why don't you call those "mistakes" their real name? Sin.
    Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jo 8:32, 34) Jesus said the truth will free you from servitude to sin. I believe that. Why don"t you?
    My "evil body" was crucified with Christ. "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Ro 6:6)
    I have not lied. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil. Sin. Why does the devil have ANY power in your life. he has none in my life.
    It is only impossible to keep your eyes on Christ all the time if you don't love Him. If you realized what He has done for you, why would you forsake Him? The only people who sin are those that are servants of sin.
    "The wages of sin is death". Paul also wrote, "Some men's sins are opened beforehand, going before to judgement; and some men they follow after." I have been judged for my sins, and the penalty was death. If you don't put your body to death now, you will suffer the second death. I am dead, to sin, to everything of this earth. I will live with Jesus forever, because He made a way to end the life lived in the flesh and to start living in the Spirit.
    If your repentance is real, you won't sin again. If it is real.
    Did you even read my post? I made that VERY simple! Read the 3rd paragraph! I can't explain that any better. How do you keep getting lost? Like I said your not listening I asked you 2 very simple questions, never got a response. Your picking and choosing your debates here. IF you read your own post you'll know you've SINNED.

    You ACTUALLY believe the grace of God is a one time thing Which is not true.

    You have not been judged yet. Are you in Heaven right now? There will be a judgement day after we die. "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil." 2 Cor 5:10


    PJW the devil used to have a hold of me but God helped me get through it. The devil seems to have a hold on you for thinking your perfect. I pray you'll be able realize that one day and will go to God for help.

    Have a nice day.

  7. #577
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Chad post 568,
    Do you say that all must/will sin because there is a "forgiveness" loophole?
    If a man repents of theft, God forgives them. If a man repents of theft, and he steals again, he shows that his first repentance was a lie.
    Jesus made a way to crucify the "flesh" so that it would not "rise-up" to tempt you anymore. Those who have crucified the flesh and have been buried with Christ have put on Christ. (Gal 3:27) (Col 2:11-13) "They" are dead and Christ lives in them.
    God gives His Holy Ghost to those that obey Him. (Acts 5:32) When I was a sinner, I walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, according to the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.(Ep 2:2)
    Just because someone else hates God, doesn't mean I have to hate Him too. (Matt 6:24)
    I'm not saying sinners can't be forgiven, I'm saying that if their conduct doesn't manifest their repentance, they are not "in Christ". I won't call them Christians while their in sin.

  8. #578
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Gadgeteer post 569,
    I think......that because you see scriptures exorting men to avoid the fleshly that it infers that all are living fleshly. Is this right?
    Some men heed these warnings and avoid the destruction of sin.
    Sin is a problem, but God has made a way to remain true to Him. Those who do not remain true to God are not His children.
    His children love and obey Him in all things.
    You "bold" the words "saved person", but it is clear that your definition of saved is not the same as mine.
    A saved man has cast off the flesh and put on Christ. He has started his eternal life here on earth. There is no sin in God's kingdom.
    The saved person has died on the cross with Christ, as per Romans 6:3-7

  9. #579
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Gadgeteer post570,
    I see nothing of difference between what I have been saying and what you say, at least in post 570. Sorry I miswrote 29 for 39, (but they do go hand-in-hand).
    Just because your "flesh" has been crucified, buried, and raised as a new creature doesn't mean satan knows any better than to keep trying to lead us back to "self-service".

  10. #580
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    RLG post 571,
    The gospel is to save men from the worst dictator, killer, thief, and idolater ever. satan.
    If you don't turn from sin "before" the judgement, your fate will be with the destroyer.
    Paul wrote of the "wages of sin" just after telling us how to kill the flesh, in Romans 6.
    Jesus said we must be born again, (Jo 3:3-6) and that happens after the DEATH of the "old man". (Ro 6:6)
    You can accept the "wages" you deserve, here, on earth, and spend the rest of your vessel's time to the glory of God. As a FULL-TIME servant.

  11. #581
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    Slug1,
    The sum total of your "counsel" is that nobody can truelly serve God as He deserves.
    The people reading, and joining you, are the ones looking for justification for their sinful lives.
    People, there is a way to serve God without offending Him in the least.
    If you want to keep sinning, it's your choice, but you don't have to.
    The so-called Christian churches have chosen sin over obedience. God is coming back for a pure unstained church. Does that match your present situation?
    Jesus made a way to change from sinner to non-sinner. Otherwise, the Jewish faith would have been sufficient. They had their sacrifices for sin, and holy rites, but it wasn't enough for God, so He sent His Son to die for our past sins, so we could be re-born of an incorruptible seed, so we could walk in the light as Jesus is in the light. Free of the devil and it's malicious hate.
    Repent. That means, turn from, or change. Turn from sin. Change from a sinner to a non-sinner. Change from a self lover to a lover of God.
    Ace, the way to "get in Christ", is to be baptized into Christ. (Ro 6:3)

    Wow...just wow. You assume way too much here. YOu think we are in the business of sinning and making excuses for sin? YOu don't know any of us. We just understand that we do fail from time to time and are humble enough to admit that and confess it, and we see the scriptures teach us that this does in fact happen, but that doesn't make us any less forgiven. Who put you in charge of judging others?
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  12. #582
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    I guess that you finally believe that I live without sin. Seeing as you asked me to pray, and God's Word say, "Now we know that God heareth NOT sinners:" (Jo 9:31)
    Wow, now if this doesn't drip with pride, (which is a sin) then I don't know what does.

    1Peter 2:2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,[a]



    I don't know how many verses there are that suggest there is "growth" and a "maturing" process, that takes time, but this ought to tell you a little something about how that none of us just does it perfectly, that it takes time to get there, and each of us in are in a different place. I started as a fairly liberal Christian, and as I grew and matured I learned that I can't agree to or live certain ways anymore. Thank God for His grace, because were it up to you, then I would have been considered unforgiven and not even bothered way back then. Praise God for His patience and TEACHING, which is what the Holy Spirit does. He teaches us those things we do not know, which suggest that we aren't perfect, and He teaches us in His good time, not in YOURS.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  13. #583
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    The gospel is to save man from the worst dictator, killer, thief, and idolater ever. man.
    There, fixed it for ya.

  14. #584
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    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    Saved7 post 465,
    Do you really want to live without sin?
    It starts with repentance. Turn from ALL sin. Denying the flesh is the crucifixion of the body of sin.
    Baptism in water is next. Baptism is the burial of the now dead flesh. Rising from the water is the rebirth. A NEW man has come forth, one born of the Word of God.
    You should then start praying earnestly for the gift of the Holy Ghost. As a non-sinner, God hears your prayers. He will bestow this gift to you.
    New flesh, new mind, new Spirit.
    God's word says, "And He gave some apostles; and some, prophets; and some evangilists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." (Eph 4
    :"11-12)
    Seek righteousness and you will be filled. (Matt 5:6) God will supply your needs for the remainder of your journey.
    Sooo, are you assuming that I haven't been born again, and baptized? Are you assuming that I don't pray...or fast (oh wait, you didn't mention that part, did you?) or have any gifts of the spirit? And are you assuming that I haven't turned from ALL SIN? Tell me, is it sin to feel emotions? Those are where we run into trouble. Do you feel emotions, like anger, perhaps? Come on man, your giving me baby food, I want the tough meat, give me the beef jerky. Tell me how to SEEK RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HOW TO BE FILLED with the spirit as you say, as the scriptures teach us. Tell us how to DO THAT, what does that look like in real time, in practice?
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

  15. #585

    Re: Sinning as a Christian = sinner?

    Proverbs 11:2 - When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.


    Quote Originally Posted by PJW View Post
    Chad post 568,
    Do you say that all must/will sin because there is a "forgiveness" loophole?
    If a man repents of theft, God forgives them. If a man repents of theft, and he steals again, he shows that his first repentance was a lie.
    Jesus made a way to crucify the "flesh" so that it would not "rise-up" to tempt you anymore. Those who have crucified the flesh and have been buried with Christ have put on Christ. (Gal 3:27) (Col 2:11-13) "They" are dead and Christ lives in them.
    God gives His Holy Ghost to those that obey Him. (Acts 5:32) When I was a sinner, I walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, according to the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience.(Ep 2:2)
    Just because someone else hates God, doesn't mean I have to hate Him too. (Matt 6:24)
    I'm not saying sinners can't be forgiven, I'm saying that if their conduct doesn't manifest their repentance, they are not "in Christ". I won't call them Christians while their in sin.

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