I want to be like Christ.

[markedward]

haha, yeah I suppose the title was intentionally misleading, but I do try to get out to the shelter on some holidays, and treat my fellow man as I would want to be treated...healing the sick however, not something I'm qualified to do. Just as caring for orphans and widows are things I'm not emotionally or financially equipped to deal with. I can say that i contribute to charities that I believe are equipped to handle situations that I am not. I think that I have strengths that can be a boon to my fellow man and I delve into them with passion and joy. Anyway, thanks for not addressing anything proposed in the thread hahah.

Then you're definitely 'walking' a more Christlike life than many Christians do, at least in these respects. So when you say you 'want to be like Christ'... how much 'like' him do you want to be? You've got healing, giving, clothing, feeding, sheltering, caring, each in some form or another... How close do you 'want' to get 'like' Jesus, before you draw the line? Love for people you don't know or don't like? Love for God?

My point of asking is: your thread title implies that you see value and worth in Jesus' teachings and Way of life. But 'Love God' and 'love one another' were the foundation for the Way that Jesus taught. If the two most important things he taught, the two things that he said his teachings and his Way revolve entirely around, are the two things you won't do, you remove the foundation of the Way of Christ, you don't have any incentive to 'be like Christ'. Just live whatever way you see fit and call it good. Those two things are necessary to 'be like Christ', so without them you've simply got a way, not the Way.

In any case, I agree with most of what you said in the OP. Simply acting in accordance with a belief doesn't make that belief true. In regards to Christianity, a person acting in accordance with their belief provides a basis for the truth of Christianity... but it doesn't prove Christianity is true. (Although, it's far from contradicting or refuting Christianity, since Christianity openly admits that its adherents are nowhere near perfect, and its written testimony shows that such imperfections were widespread among the first generation Christians, even the 'pillars of faith' like the Apostles.)

[oscarkipling]

Then you're definitely 'walking' a more Christlike life than many Christians do, at least in these respects. So when you say you 'want to be like Christ'... how much 'like' him do you want to be? You've got healing, giving, clothing, feeding, sheltering, caring, each in some form or another... How close do you 'want' to get 'like' Jesus, before you draw the line? Love for people you don't know or don't like? Love for God?

My point of asking is: your thread title implies that you see value and worth in Jesus' teachings and Way of life. But 'Love God' and 'love one another' were the foundation for the Way that Jesus taught. If the two most important things he taught, the two things that he said his teachings and his Way revolve entirely around, are the two things you won't do, you remove the foundation of the Way of Christ, you don't have any incentive to 'be like Christ'. Just live whatever way you see fit and call it good. Those two things are necessary to 'be like Christ', so without them you've simply got a way, not the Way.

In any case, I agree with most of what you said in the OP. Simply acting in accordance with a belief doesn't make that belief true. In regards to Christianity, a person acting in accordance with their belief provides a basis for the truth of Christianity... but it doesn't prove Christianity is true. (Although, it's far from contradicting or refuting Christianity, since Christianity openly admits that its adherents are nowhere near perfect, and its written testimony shows that such imperfections were widespread among the first generation Christians, even the 'pillars of faith' like the Apostles.)

you know, this is a much more interest conversation than the original one I think. Its true i dont love god, I dont believe a God exists, which I dont think is so horrible,its a matter of evidence or revelation or spirit something or another all of which are not out of the question. anyway, love that one really cuts to the quick because it is a thing that i do believe exists but have tonnes of trouble defining. I tend to think that christian love or , the type we are talking about here would be better described with other words. i mean dole out love rather sparingly, that deep emotional connection with another human being isn't something i can just sprinkle about at will...and i argue a healthy person cant. but if a person needed my help, i could offer a helping hand even if it was to my disadvantage, because i have empathy and respect and a yearning to help my fellow man. This imo is not love, I dont have a deep emotional connection with this specific person, i have a deep emotional connection with the human condition. it does transcend the fact of whether i like the person or not, whether we have similar interests and whether i expect any reciprocation...so in that sense i think the distinction is moot....or possibly nonexistent,of course many Christians will claim that there is some ineffable aspect which i'm not capturing...well i have no way to evaluate such a thing, so i have no reason to believe it. The parts you claim are special, are also inaccessible. So in that you are correct i do not have incentive to attempt to act as if my behavior has some divine aspect, but on a simply natural behavioral level,there are all sorts of reasons to emulate Christ, or dare i say attempt to build upon his example

[shepherdsword]

I respect you, and I think you are a genuine in your belief in God, but this looks to me like much labored nothing. Anointing, wonders, what can i expect from these things. I once tried orchestrate a wonder, and to this day I am waiting for it to come to a head. perhaps you could describe whet a wonder could look like?

I would consider a wonder to be a supernatural event that defied all natural explanation. The raising of the dead for instance or the regrowing of an amputated limb in the name of Jesus. Such a demonstration would give much credence to our claims of the authority of Christ,would it not? In wanting to be like Christ(the title of the thread) it is important to also desire that God validates our truth with such wonders.I think my point on this is relevant to the discussion.
I apologize for my use of such spiritual terms as "anointing' "wonders" and such. I guess that I had a gut feeling that you have been around us long enough to know our vernacular use of such terms.

[Dani H]

alright, i have no doubt that you believe that your transformation was impossible without supernatural influence, but why would anyone else believe that?

That is why in Scripture, we always see people point to Jesus when they evangelize, not to themselves.

Which is why I said "God is His own proof". The transformation I see within myself is only some partly proof to me that God is real. However, it wouldn't have happened the way it did, if I didn't come to God simply for the fact that He exists, and the fact that I believed so to begin with.

When I came to Christ, it wasn't because someone told me how they had gotten transformed. It was the outcropping of a very personal longstanding internal struggle coupled with God helping me understand that He was in fact real, and then me responding to that. I realize that several people were involved in that process, and the fact that they cared so much did leave an impact on me but not as proof of God's reality; more a proof of God's love. I already believed that God (or "a god of some sort") existed; I just didn't realize that Jesus was in fact alive and well, large and in charge, and able to save me.

You can surely emulate Christ as a role model and follow His teachings, as surely as you can follow the Buddha's example or Muhammad's example or ... honestly, pick any other such spiritual/religious figure/leader. People do it all the time, all day, every day.

However, I maintain that the difference between Jesus and those other teachers is the fact that He was raised from the dead and is alive and brings that personal connection to the table apart from written books or word-of-mouth traditions. There is a distinct difference between Jesus and any and all other religious figures/leaders which is why the contention is always focused on whether He:
1. existed
2. did actually do what the Bible says He did
3. did actually come back from the dead.

It all hangs on Jesus' resurrection. Plain and simple. It really honestly does.

That in turn of course forces people to contend with the real Jesus beyond human instruction/tradition. Because if a leader is dead, I can basically do whatever I choose with regard to their teachings and it ain't no skin off anyone's back if I do or don't; because the ultimate pressure on me goes no further than being cultural and on a strictly human level and I can get away from that at any time if I so choose (more or less anyway).

However, if Jesus is alive and is God and if He really expects everyone to turn to Him and always do what He says and if He is ultimately going to judge us all based on His standards ... if in truth He is present everywhere I go and if He transcends all those things even beyond death and I cannot get away from Him in that regard ... then that has a lot further-reaching implications than simly following some dead person's teachings or regarding them as some sort of role model, doesn't it?

[Ta-An]

oscarkipling, This thread keeps catching my eye... and I suppose I need to post something here...

Even tho faith is confident hope in what I can't see, my faith can grow because I exercise it....
Not knowing all the answers develops it.
The size of my faith is related to my dependency on God ,because I trust God, however, His protection is conditional, if I move out from His protection, then I leave myself open to arrows of attack from the adversary.

Why do I want to be like Jesus...?
Because sharing in His blessings as a co-heir to me is something I really enjoy.... the blessing of anointing with the Oil of Joy!!

If my post does not address you OP, welll then... This is all I wanted to say

[Cherish118]

The way that I look at things is that we as christians, are ambassadors of heaven. We aren't citzens of earth, we are citizens of heaven mearly living on earth. As ambassadors we represent our home country (heaven). What would you think of a country if they sent someone into your country who commited crimes just because he had diplomatic immunity? I think that the way we behave as christians, has a direct impact on how people rate our credibility, and the credibility of our father in heaven.

One of the biggest areas that I think is important in being christ-like is in foregivness. As humans we often struggle with this, most people when hurt by someone else have a hard time with forgiving them, or they think and say they forgive the other person, but the more a person does wrong against them, the less likely they are to continue to forgive them, and that is not true forgiveness. As christans Jesus has forgiven us time and time and time again for making the same mistakes, and he expects us to do the same with others. True forgiveness towards other people is not something I was able to achieve (no matter how hard I tried) untill I became a christian, and asked God to give me. I think that as christian, having true forgiveness for other people despite what they have done to us, shows it is possible, and gives credibility to them believing that God truely can forgive all sins. Will this alone convert them, maybe,maybe not, but the whole purpose of it it to give credibility of God's word, and it will help them to open their hearts to the possibility of God being real.

I think you made a good point in that being christ-like in itself isn't always enough to bring a person to christ, but it is deffinatly a way to break the ice, and get them to consider the possibility of God's exsistance, and hopefully begin to search for him and ask questions. And therein lie the second part, 1peter 3:15 "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." I think that we not only need to represent God with our lives, but also share the gospels, and show people how to receive christ as their savior.

[amazzin]

well, no I didn't mean that Christ is or isn't a good rolemodel, Its just that Its irrelevant to whether he's real or not therefore behaving like Christ isn't good evidence that Christ is God or even real. .

From the get-go your thesis is wrong so your conclusion will never reach its intended end.

[oscarkipling]

I would consider a wonder to be a supernatural event that defied all natural explanation. The raising of the dead for instance or the regrowing of an amputated limb in the name of Jesus. Such a demonstration would give much credence to our claims of the authority of Christ,would it not? In wanting to be like Christ(the title of the thread) it is important to also desire that God validates our truth with such wonders.I think my point on this is relevant to the discussion.
I apologize for my use of such spiritual terms as "anointing' "wonders" and such. I guess that I had a gut feeling that you have been around us long enough to know our vernacular use of such terms.

well, I think its fair that you would expect me to know what you meant but then again I do sometimes find that people have some differing opinions on what constitutes a wonder or a miracle, I remember once someone mentioning that they prayed for traffic to clear up, and when it did clear up they considered that a miracle. but yeah , raising the dead or regrowing limbs, I'd consider that miraculous too. I think if people mean that performing such miracles would be the best evangelical tool, then I cant help but agree.

[oscarkipling]

That is why in Scripture, we always see people point to Jesus when they evangelize, not to themselves.

Which is why I said "God is His own proof". The transformation I see within myself is only some partly proof to me that God is real. However, it wouldn't have happened the way it did, if I didn't come to God simply for the fact that He exists, and the fact that I believed so to begin with.

When I came to Christ, it wasn't because someone told me how they had gotten transformed. It was the outcropping of a very personal longstanding internal struggle coupled with God helping me understand that He was in fact real, and then me responding to that. I realize that several people were involved in that process, and the fact that they cared so much did leave an impact on me but not as proof of God's reality; more a proof of God's love. I already believed that God (or "a god of some sort") existed; I just didn't realize that Jesus was in fact alive and well, large and in charge, and able to save me.

You can surely emulate Christ as a role model and follow His teachings, as surely as you can follow the Buddha's example or Muhammad's example or ... honestly, pick any other such spiritual/religious figure/leader. People do it all the time, all day, every day.

However, I maintain that the difference between Jesus and those other teachers is the fact that He was raised from the dead and is alive and brings that personal connection to the table apart from written books or word-of-mouth traditions. There is a distinct difference between Jesus and any and all other religious figures/leaders which is why the contention is always focused on whether He:
1. existed
2. did actually do what the Bible says He did
3. did actually come back from the dead.

It all hangs on Jesus' resurrection. Plain and simple. It really honestly does.

That in turn of course forces people to contend with the real Jesus beyond human instruction/tradition. Because if a leader is dead, I can basically do whatever I choose with regard to their teachings and it ain't no skin off anyone's back if I do or don't; because the ultimate pressure on me goes no further than being cultural and on a strictly human level and I can get away from that at any time if I so choose (more or less anyway).

However, if Jesus is alive and is God and if He really expects everyone to turn to Him and always do what He says and if He is ultimately going to judge us all based on His standards ... if in truth He is present everywhere I go and if He transcends all those things even beyond death and I cannot get away from Him in that regard ... then that has a lot further-reaching implications than simly following some dead person's teachings or regarding them as some sort of role model, doesn't it?

hmm, I dont think I understand. It looks to me you are saying that there is an actual difference between simply believing that Jesus is alive and watching you and having a personal relationship with you and Jesus actually being alive and watching and having a personal relationship with you. Maybe you could give me some examples of how things would be different if you believed and it wasn't true, vs if you believed and it was true. i mean how would it look different?

[oscarkipling]

oscarkipling, This thread keeps catching my eye... and I suppose I need to post something here...

Even tho faith is confident hope in what I can't see, my faith can grow because I exercise it....
Not knowing all the answers develops it.
The size of my faith is related to my dependency on God ,because I trust God, however, His protection is conditional, if I move out from His protection, then I leave myself open to arrows of attack from the adversary.

Why do I want to be like Jesus...?
Because sharing in His blessings as a co-heir to me is something I really enjoy.... the blessing of anointing with the Oil of Joy!!

If my post does not address you OP, welll then... This is all I wanted to say

well, I guess it doesn't really directly address the OP, but i can say that if you want to be like Jesus because it brings you joy, then I think that's an honest way to live.

[oscarkipling]

The way that I look at things is that we as christians, are ambassadors of heaven. We aren't citzens of earth, we are citizens of heaven mearly living on earth. As ambassadors we represent our home country (heaven). What would you think of a country if they sent someone into your country who commited crimes just because he had diplomatic immunity? I think that the way we behave as christians, has a direct impact on how people rate our credibility, and the credibility of our father in heaven.

One of the biggest areas that I think is important in being christ-like is in foregivness. As humans we often struggle with this, most people when hurt by someone else have a hard time with forgiving them, or they think and say they forgive the other person, but the more a person does wrong against them, the less likely they are to continue to forgive them, and that is not true forgiveness. As christans Jesus has forgiven us time and time and time again for making the same mistakes, and he expects us to do the same with others. True forgiveness towards other people is not something I was able to achieve (no matter how hard I tried) untill I became a christian, and asked God to give me. I think that as christian, having true forgiveness for other people despite what they have done to us, shows it is possible, and gives credibility to them believing that God truely can forgive all sins. Will this alone convert them, maybe,maybe not, but the whole purpose of it it to give credibility of God's word, and it will help them to open their hearts to the possibility of God being real.

I think you made a good point in that being christ-like in itself isn't always enough to bring a person to christ, but it is deffinatly a way to break the ice, and get them to consider the possibility of God's exsistance, and hopefully begin to search for him and ask questions. And therein lie the second part, 1peter 3:15 "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." I think that we not only need to represent God with our lives, but also share the gospels, and show people how to receive Christ as their savior.

Well, yeah being a nice person definitely makes you easier to talk to, so in that regard i can agree that its a good strategy. I just dont think that it really should cause a person to consider God's existence a possibility, I think there are reasons to consider it, but i dont think that's one of them.

[Dani H]

hmm, I dont think I understand. It looks to me you are saying that there is an actual difference between simply believing that Jesus is alive and watching you and having a personal relationship with you and Jesus actually being alive and watching and having a personal relationship with you. Maybe you could give me some examples of how things would be different if you believed and it wasn't true, vs if you believed and it was true. i mean how would it look different?

If I believed and it wasn't true then that is called assumption.

If I believe and it is true then that is called faith.

Big difference, far as I'm concerned. Huge. Massive. Difference.

Because with faith, we connect with a real, actual God who rewards faith and responds to it.

With assumption ... we live inside our own heads.

Does that help?

[oscarkipling]

From the get-go your thesis is wrong so your conclusion will never reach its intended end.

why bother Amazzin? you are consistently terse and abstruse. I've racked my brain trying to figure out why you would bother saying anything when you must know that your little one or two liners dont actually clear anything up. Its fine if you dont want to sully your pearls with my swine, but it seems you could just stay out of my threads. The way i see it, you can either talk to me like a person that has genuine questions, and is seeking answers and actual discussion about God, Christianity and even the nature of the universe or you can just stay out of my threads. Honestly, I've tried to open up the lines of communication with you, but you make it so hard to talk to you.

[oscarkipling]

If I believed and it wasn't true then that is called assumption.

If I believe and it is true then that is called faith.

Big difference, far as I'm concerned. Huge. Massive. Difference.

Because with faith, we connect with a real, actual God who rewards faith and responds to it.

With assumption ... we live inside our own heads.

Does that help?

haha, well, yeah I mean I get that we'd use different words for it, and that they are qualitatively different in actuality...but i meant could you give me some examples of what I should expect to see if your belief is also true, vs what I should expect to see if your believe but its not true.

[Dani H]

haha, well, yeah I mean I get that we'd use different words for it, and that they are qualitatively different in actuality...but i meant could you give me some examples of what I should expect to see if your belief is also true, vs what I should expect to see if your believe but its not true.

Well beliefs are usually tested against reality.

So if your faith is actual and true ... often when it's tested ... it will withstand and come out stronger. And if you've been assuming a lot ... when the tests come you will often turn your back on what you used to call "faith" because it will be exposed for what it is.

That's not always the case ... but often. And the Bible tells us that also.

People's assumptions failing them is actually a good thing. Give me real faith any day.