According to Jewish tradition, no. Obviously not everyone will be happy with such a source.Originally Posted by quiet dove
Deadpan Snarker
According to Jewish tradition, no. Obviously not everyone will be happy with such a source.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Posting Freak
Yep.
However, you are making an assumption that there is a prophetic POWER command in those 9 chapters (Ezekiel 40-48!) to Judah to build the temple that was in Ezekiek's VISION.
There is no command there . . .
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
I live here!
I just did a Google search and came up with the following link.
Once again, as during both Solomon’s and Herod’s Temple -- the SHEKINAH GLORY of YEHOVAH God will be present in a new Temple in Jerusalem! Here is what the Bible records of YEHOVAH’s Shekinah Glory in Solomon’s Temple after it was dedicated --
Now when Solomon had finished praying, fire came down from heaven and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the temple. And the priests could not enter the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD’S house (2 Chronicles 7:1-2).
Just before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., a number of historians relate how YEHOVAH’s Shekinah Glory (which dwelt inside the Holy of Holies in Herod’s Temple) left the sanctuary, travelled through the East Gate and hovered over the Mount of Olives for three and a half years. Eusebius, early church historian of the third and fourth centuries, writes:
.........
A Jewish rabbi by the name of Jonathan, who was an eyewitness to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., said the Shekinah Glory left the Temple and for three and a half years --
abode on the Mount of Olives hoping that Israel would repent, but they did not; while a Bet Kol [a supernatural voice from heaven] issued forth announcing, Return, O backsliding children [Jer. 3:14]. Return unto me, and I will return unto you [Mal. 3:7]. When they did not repent, it said, I will return to my place [in heaven] [Hosea 5:15] (Midrash, Rabbah Lamentations 2:11).
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/YHVHglory.htm
Deadpan Snarker
Why did the exile end?Yep.
I'm sorry, i do not understand what you are saying here.However, you are making an assumption that there is a prophetic POWER command in those 9 chapters (Ezekiel 40-48!) to Judah to build the temple that was in Ezekiek's VISION.
There is no command there . . .
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
I certainly don't claim to have any special all understanding, but one thought I put forth one time, a while back in another thread, about a year ago I guess, was that it relates to the mortal flesh aspect and God's presence...(unbeknowst to me at the time, others have put forth similar thoughts)something that is not an issue at present nor will be an issue for us then. However, it will be an issue for those who survive the GT and enter the Millennial Kingdom...but now bear in mind for me, that means only the mortal righteous, as the "goats" are removed from the earth.
Jesus, ruling with a "rod of iron" sounds like He is going to run a pretty tight ship regarding men born during that time and the "nations". And men/nations will be required to keep certain aspects of the feasts and so on.
Like I said, I don't claim to grasp it all....but at the same time, to me, it says what it says and I must take it that way even if my understanding cannot grasp it all...
Animal sacrifices never provided cleansing and eternal life, ...animal blood was not accounted unto men as righteousness, faith was/is. And that faith was regarding believing God's promises, just as Abraham.
Within the Law God taught what sin is, and He taught that the wages of sin is death...none of that has changed...sin is still sin and death is still the result.
The sacrifices provided means of approaching God, a cleansing that allowed for the teaching and the means to approach God under God's terms. But they never cleansed and gave eternal life...if they had, there would have been no need of more than one sacrifice of an animal for a person.
Believing the blood of animals to have accomplished the same atoning as the Blood of the Lamb is more of an insult to Jesus that trying to comprehend why there could possibly be animal sacrifices in the future for the mortal flesh of men entering into a temple with God's presence. Not only do I not believe animal sacrifices of the future able to provide eternal life, I don't believe the animal sacrifices of the past did, or could either.
If the blood of a man born after Adam and thus in death could not provide eternal life for other men, how possibly could the blood of an animal. The value of the sacrifice must be more than the value of the one paid for, thus, only Jesus, God the Son, coming just as fully as man as He was God, could pay for our sins...the blood of men, much less animals, never did or could cover and cleanse our sinfulness from us.
Deadpan Snarker
I have no idea what this guy's quoting.
No "historians" recorded anything of the sort. So far as I know, we have no records from anyone in Jerusalem when the Romans destroyed it.Just before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., a number of historians relate how YEHOVAH’s Shekinah Glory (which dwelt inside the Holy of Holies in Herod’s Temple) left the sanctuary, travelled through the East Gate and hovered over the Mount of Olives for three and a half years.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Posting Freak
Well, the prophet Zechariah and Haggai provided Holy Ghost POWER prophesy commands to BUILD Zerrubabbel's temple--thus, that temple was built "by my Spirit says the Lord" and so on. Two examples follow:
And this is the specific kind of language that you do not find in Ezekiel 40-48 . . .Haggai 1
7Thus says the LORD of hosts, “Consider your ways!
8“Go up to the mountains, bring wood and rebuild the temple, that I may be pleased with it and be glorified,” says the LORD.
9“You look for much, but behold, it comes to little; when you bring it home, I blow it away. Why?” declares the LORD of hosts, “Because of My house which lies desolate, while each of you runs to his own house.
10“Therefore, because of you the sky has withheld its dew and the earth has withheld its produce.
11“I called for a drought on the land, on the mountains, on the grain, on the new wine, on the oil, on what the ground produces, on men, on cattle, and on all the labor of your hands.”
12Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the LORD their God and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the LORD their God had sent him. And the people showed reverence for the LORD.
13Then Haggai, the messenger of the LORD, spoke by the commission of the LORD to the people saying, “ ‘I am with you,’ declares the LORD.”
14So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,
15on the twenty-fourth day of the sixth month in the second year of Darius the king.
Zech. 1
12Then the angel of the LORD said, “O LORD of hosts, how long will You have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been indignant these seventy years?”
13The LORD answered the angel who was speaking with me with gracious words, comforting words.
14So the angel who was speaking with me said to me, “Proclaim, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “I am exceedingly jealous for Jerusalem and Zion.
15“But I am very angry with the nations who are at ease; for while I was only a little angry, they furthered the disaster.”
16‘Therefore thus says the LORD, “I will return to Jerusalem with compassion; My house will be built in it,” declares the LORD of hosts, “and a measuring line will be stretched over Jerusalem.”’
17“Again, proclaim, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “My cities will again overflow with prosperity, and the LORD will again comfort Zion and again choose Jerusalem.”’”
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Posting Freak
Well, let's allow the writer of II Chron. 36 to tell us (in bold):
II Chron. 36
20Those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia,
21to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete.
Fenris,
The earthly physical "temples/tabernacles" of YHWH do not appear out of nothing: a Holy Ghost prophetic POWER command from YHWH to his people to "rise up and build" is required.
Yep.
And without that, no temple/tabernacle can be built on the earth. Really.
And Ezekiel 40-48 does not have that at all . . .
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
I live here!
I would have no idea either. Just adding another perspective into the mix. Not trying to imply you are incorrect or anything. It's just that I haven't as of yet taken the time to check out ii what that person is quoting, whether it's based on facts or not. But since he used names of historians to make his point, I guess the first thing to check would be to see if any of these historians ever made these claims, then go from there.
Deadpan Snarker
So no repenting was necessary? They could go on sinning and be brought back from exile?
I still don't understand what you're saying, sorry.Fenris,
The earthly physical "temples/tabernacles" of YHWH do not appear out of nothing: a Holy Ghost prophetic POWER command from YHWH to his people to "rise up and build" is required.
Yep.
And without that, no temple/tabernacle can be built on the earth. Really.
And Ezekiel 40-48 does not have that at all . . .
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Deadpan Snarker
Please don't just cut and paste things from strange web sites.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
I live here!
I don't know if it's a strange website at this point. It very well could be. But maybe it isn't either.
Isn't that the WHOLE purpose of TEH INTERNETZ!
Deadpan Snarker
Apparently.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Posting Freak
I feel you are missing what I am saying completely . . . Let's see . . .
Judah was placed in captivity because they did not let the land enjoy her sabbaths; they were not in Babylon for no reason. And apparently, they had no "shame" while they were there--at least, Ezekiel 40-48 does not contain scripture that suggests this.
On the other hand, Daniel and Ezra (two of the exiles, yes?) provide prayers of "shame" and so on, but these prayers occur at the end of the captivity. And I was asking about whether the captive exiles showed any "ashamed" posture while they were in captivity; i. e., during the 45 years after Ezekiel's VISION (you know, the one which occurred in year 25 of the captivity).
That's all . . .
Fenris,
The pattern for building "earthly temple/tabernacles" are on full display in the verses below; you do not see this in Ezekiel 40-48:
And YHWH does things in order and in according to process--temples/tabernacles of YHWH do not appear out of nothing . . .Haggai 1
7Thus says the LORD of hosts, “Consider your ways!
8“Go up to the mountains, bring wood and rebuild the temple, that I may be pleased with it and be glorified,” says the LORD.
9“You look for much, but behold, it comes to little; when you bring it home, I blow it away. Why?” declares the LORD of hosts, “Because of My house which lies desolate, while each of you runs to his own house.
10“Therefore, because of you the sky has withheld its dew and the earth has withheld its produce.
11“I called for a drought on the land, on the mountains, on the grain, on the new wine, on the oil, on what the ground produces, on men, on cattle, and on all the labor of your hands.”
12Then Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, with all the remnant of the people, obeyed the voice of the LORD their God and the words of Haggai the prophet, as the LORD their God had sent him. And the people showed reverence for the LORD.
13Then Haggai, the messenger of the LORD, spoke by the commission of the LORD to the people saying, “ ‘I am with you,’ declares the LORD.”
14So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and worked on the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,
15on the twenty-fourth day of the sixth month in the second year of Darius the king.
Zech. 1
12Then the angel of the LORD said, “O LORD of hosts, how long will You have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been indignant these seventy years?”
13The LORD answered the angel who was speaking with me with gracious words, comforting words.
14So the angel who was speaking with me said to me, “Proclaim, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “I am exceedingly jealous for Jerusalem and Zion.
15“But I am very angry with the nations who are at ease; for while I was only a little angry, they furthered the disaster.”
16‘Therefore thus says the LORD, “I will return to Jerusalem with compassion; My house will be built in it,” declares the LORD of hosts, “and a measuring line will be stretched over Jerusalem.”’
17“Again, proclaim, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, “My cities will again overflow with prosperity, and the LORD will again comfort Zion and again choose Jerusalem.”’”
(After all, YHWH has to live there . . .)
Does this make better sense?
Last edited by billy-brown 2; Mar 2nd 2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: text
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
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