Where is that one dimension you are referring to ever called the temple?Originally Posted by Fenris
Coffee Break
Where is that one dimension you are referring to ever called the temple?
Coffee Break
Why would God have to give that vision to Ezekiel. It is always, if you obey.
Coffee Break
You don't find the same specific language in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, as you do in John, so that proves nothing.
Game set match -Jesus
Good
chap 47, and fresh water flowing into the dead sea to make it alive.
Couldnt be, because the dead sea is still salty.
Is this not a vision speaking of Eden and the new Jerusalem....where God will dwell with his people in bliss forever....with all nations?
Deadpan Snarker
I have no idea what a "vision construct" is. If Ezekiel's prophecy doesn't come true, then he's a false prophet. Right out of Deuteronomy.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Deadpan Snarker
So let's see. You've tried "invisible walls", "not the temple"...what other excuses can you come up with?
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Posting Freak
LOL
Well, divaD said that we are supposed to "get to the bottom" of the Ezekiel temple dialectic; that's what we are discussing, yes?
So . . . let's see . . .
The four "facilities" below are the only ones (other than the heavenly tabernacle of Heb. 8) that have been (or are) functional in mankind's history:
That's all."Facility" 1) The Tabernacle in the Wilderness ( . . . this was replaced by Solomon's Temple).
"Facility" 2) Solomon's Temple ( . . . this was destroyed long ago).
"Facility" 3) Zerubbabel's/Herod's Temple (These are put together because Herod's Temple was an expansion of Zerubbabel's Temple-- this was destroyed long ago).
"Facility" 4) The Church of Jesus Christ (the current "earthly Temple").
And there is no case of earthly, physical temple/tabernacle construction where there has not been spiritual, and prophetic, POWER supplied from YHWH to His people for the construction.
And the spiritual, and prophetic, POWER supplied from YHWH for the construction of "Facilities" 1, 2, 3, and 4 above are represented by some of the following scriptures below (and there are many more then these--just click on the links, and watch YHWH at work):
"Facility" 1) Exodus 40.
"Facility" 2) 1 Chronicles 22.
"Facility" 3) Haggai 1, Zechariah 1.
"Facility" 4) Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 8.
And so, I am hoping that you will see in these chapters above that earthly temple/tabernacles of YHWH do not just appear out of nothing . . . spiritual Prophetic POWER from YHWH is required. And no group of people--regardless of talent or will--can build a future earthly temple facility that would contain YHWH's massive presence and power.
Also, these scripture links above represent examples of what would be needed for a construction of any earthly tabernacle facility--and Ezekiel 40-48 does not contain this kind of profile at all . . .
Do you see what I mean?
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Posting Freak
A "vision construct" means simply that Ezekiel is seeing things that are being shown to him. That's all.
In other words, Ezekiel is under the power of God in Babylon; and he is transported to the Land of Israel to be shown specific things in the Spirit:
In other words, Ezekiel is "seeing things . . ." while still in Babylonian exile. This is an example of what a "VISION construct" is about.Ezekiel 40
1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city was taken, on that same day the hand of the LORD was upon me and He brought me there.
2 In the visions of God He brought me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, and on it to the south there was a structure like a city.
3 So He brought me there; and behold, there was a man whose appearance was like the appearance of bronze, with a line of flax and a measuring rod in his hand; and he was standing in the gateway.
4 The man said to me, “Son of man, see with your eyes, hear with your ears, and give attention to all that I am going to show you; for you have been brought here in order to show it to you. Declare to the house of Israel all that you see.”
Yes?
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Posting Freak
Hi QD,
But some of the "Visions of God" do not deal explicitly with "prophesy" and so on.
Of course, the Visions of the book of Revelation do deal explicitly with prophesy (for example), but the text of Ezekiel 40-48 is explicit with respect to what it is dealing with:
Ezekiel 40
1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city was taken, on that same day the hand of the LORD was upon me and He brought me there.
2 In the visions of God He brought me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, and on it to the south there was a structure like a city.
3 So He brought me there; and behold, there was a man whose appearance was like the appearance of bronze, with a line of flax and a measuring rod in his hand; and he was standing in the gateway.
4 The man said to me, “Son of man, see with your eyes, hear with your ears, and give attention to all that I am going to show you; for you have been brought here in order to show it to you. Declare to the house of Israel all that you see.”
Exekiel 43:11
11 “If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.
Yep.
Our God has a "bone" to pick with the captive exiles--he wants them to be ashamed for their sin, change their minds, and DO the Law of Moses. And they were in captivity to start with for one overriding reason: because they did not do the Law of Moses. Indeed, the people of Judah was put in Babylon for 70 years because they did not obey the sabbath covenant--at least, this is what Ezra tells us:
II Chron. 36
15The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place;
16but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy.
17Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm; He gave them all into his hand.
18All the articles of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king and of his officers, he brought them all to Babylon.
19Then they burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles.
20Those who had escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon; and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia,
21to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete.
And Ezekiel's temple vision occurred in year 25 of the captivity--and 45 years were left for the assuming of "ashamed" posture by the exiles.
Now, did that happen?
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Deadpan Snarker
Yes, that's every prophecy. The prophet is seeing things that are being shown to him. Yes?
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Coffee Break
Hear what God says about invisible walls around Jerusalem.
Zechariah 2:1 I lifted up mine eyes again, and looked, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand.
Zechariah 2:2 Then said I, Whither goest thou? And he said unto me, To measure Jerusalem, to see what is the breadth thereof, and what is the length thereof.
Zechariah 2:4 And said unto him, Run, speak to this young man, saying, Jerusalem shall be inhabited as towns without walls for the multitude of men and cattle therein:
Zechariah 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
Deadpan Snarker
These walls don't have dimensions either.
I don't think you're convincing anyone but yourself here.
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Posting Freak
Yep.
And so, do you see what this passage is saying?
Ezekiel 40
1 In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city was taken, on that same day the hand of the LORD was upon me and He brought me there.
2 In the visions of God He brought me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, and on it to the south there was a structure like a city.
3 So He brought me there; and behold, there was a man whose appearance was like the appearance of bronze, with a line of flax and a measuring rod in his hand; and he was standing in the gateway.
4 The man said to me, “Son of man, see with your eyes, hear with your ears, and give attention to all that I am going to show you; for you have been brought here in order to show it to you. Declare to the house of Israel all that you see.”
Grace and peace,
Billy-brown 2
I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Deadpan Snarker
Ummm no..... I don't
Hear the word of the Lord, O nations, and declare it on the islands from afar, and say, "He Who scattered Israel will gather them together and watch them as a shepherd his flock."
Jeremiah 31:9
Coffee Break
Fenris you are not being reasonable. Why can't one book state that a line is placed, and another book give the line's dimensions?
In Zechariah we have the statement that a line is measured, but the dimensions are not given.
Zechariah 1:16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.
In the next verse we hear that God is displeased with the heathen that were around about Jerusalem. So God separates them with a wall of fire, separating the profane from the Holy.
Zechariah 1:15 And I am very sore displeased with the heathen that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction.
In Ezekiel the dimensions of that line is given, and we are told that it is to separate the profane (heathen) from what is holy, thus you have a wall of fire around Jerusalem (Or God's hedge) that is measured 690 acres square (500 reeds).
God had place a wall of fire around Jerusalem according to Zechariah, and had given the exact placement of that wall in Ezekiel.
Ezekiel 42:20 He measured it by the four sides: it had a wall round about, five hundred reeds long, and five hundred broad, to make a separation between the sanctuary and the profane place.
Zechariah 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.
What is so difficult that you cannot see it?
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