What to do in preparation for the time of Tribulation?

[Vakeros]

I believe that the Bible teaches a post-tribulation and post-wrath Rapture. Even if you disagree with that idea, imagine if you can that this is correct. What should we be doing now in order to prepare for that time?

I see a number of options:
1) Do nothing except debate endlessly as to when it is happening and what will happen.
2) Don't worry, it is all in God's hands.
3) Prepare to flee somewhere, work out the best location
4) Stockpile food etc.
5) Prepare the church for this to happen

I personally see the value in debate, but it has its limit. I think I shouldn't worry, but at the same time God has told us this all beforehand for a purpose. My first reaction was to find a place to go, like the Jews to their place and stockpile for 3.5 years of tribulation. However, what I think is best is to work out how to prepare the church for this. This is where I need your advice. Two questions then. What are the important things to do in order to prepare the church? Are these any different from what we should be teaching/doing in the church anyway?

[guero]

I believe that the Bible teaches a post-tribulation and post-wrath Rapture. Even if you disagree with that idea, imagine if you can that this is correct. What should we be doing now in order to prepare for that time?

I see a number of options:
1) Do nothing except debate endlessly as to when it is happening and what will happen.
2) Don't worry, it is all in God's hands.
3) Prepare to flee somewhere, work out the best location
4) Stockpile food etc.
5) Prepare the church for this to happen

I personally see the value in debate, but it has its limit. I think I shouldn't worry, but at the same time God has told us this all beforehand for a purpose. My first reaction was to find a place to go, like the Jews to their place and stockpile for 3.5 years of tribulation. However, what I think is best is to work out how to prepare the church for this. This is where I need your advice. Two questions then. What are the important things to do in order to prepare the church? Are these any different from what we should be teaching/doing in the church anyway?

I think we should simply be reading the Gospel continuously and striving to do what it tells us.

With regards to the specific items you list, maybe we one would consider these Scriptures:

1) Do nothing except debate endlessly as to when it is happening and what will happen.

It is not to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power (Acts 1:7)

2) Don't worry, it is all in God's hands.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (Matthew 6:34)

3) Prepare to flee somewhere, work out the best location

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(Matthew 24:16–20)

This really seems to refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD Early commentaries suggest that the admonition to flee to the mountains was remove all hope of safety from the Jews, as they might taken some encouragement from engagements in the past where a sudden turn after fleeing led to victory, as occurred with Hezekiah and Sennacherib or with the Maccabees against Antiochus. I guess maybe today some people could read this passage and decide to move to the arctic, though.

4) Stockpile food etc.

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?(Matthew 6:25–26)

5) Prepare the church for this to happen

The Church of Christ is the His Body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23).

It is not for us to prepare the Church any more than it is for us to prepare Christ Himself, but rather for us to ensure that we are within the true Church so that we are well prepared.

Anyway, those are the Scriptures that come to my mind that might apply.

[Vakeros]

I think we should simply be reading the Gospel continuously and striving to do what it tells us.

With regards to the specific items you list, maybe one would consider these Scriptures:

It is not for us to prepare the Church any more than it is for us to prepare Christ Himself, but rather for us to ensure that we are within the true Church so that we are well prepared.

Anyway, those are the Scriptures that come to my mind that might apply.

Just on your last point, are we part of the church and are we meant to be prepared? How are we meant to prepare practically? Aren't we like the watchmen who in Ezekiel 33, have a responsibility to blow the trumpet and warn the people - this I take it isn't crying wolf, nor blowing the trumpet about a 2nd coming at any time, but rather when the time is clear as per
1 Thessalonians 5:1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you.
1Th 5:2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

[guero]

Just on your last point, are we part of the church and are we meant to be prepared? How are we meant to prepare practically? Aren't we like the watchmen who in Ezekiel 33, have a responsibility to blow the trumpet and warn the people - this I take it isn't crying wolf, nor blowing the trumpet about a 2nd coming at any time, but rather when the time is clear as per
1 Thessalonians 5:1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you.
1Th 5:2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1Th 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

It is a good point. Thank you for sharing the Scriptures. I think I responded the way I did because I found the phrase "prepare the church" odd, given what Scripture teaches us about the Church (capital "C"). I will think (and pray!) more. Thank you again.

[Dani H]

Well ... if the "great tribulation" is going to be a global phenomenon like folk believe it will be, there will be nowhere physically to flee, except into the center of God's will (which is not a physical location but a lifestyle).

I think folk who are digging underground bunkers and stockpiling canned goods are missing the entire point. The best preparation to protect yourself from the "wrath to come" (if you believe in such a thing) is a life of repentance and submission/obedience to God. Who calls us to lay down our life in order to gain it, and not run around in a frenzy of self-protection (which is evidently the exact opposite of laying down your life).

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(Matthew 24:16–20)

This really seems to refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD Early commentaries suggest that the admonition to flee to the mountains was remove all hope of safety from the Jews, as they might taken some encouragement from engagements in the past where a sudden turn after fleeing led to victory, as occurred with Hezekiah and Sennacherib or with the Maccabees against Antiochus.

I certainly agree with that assessment as to the context of Matthew 24.

[Vakeros]

Well ... if the "great tribulation" is going to be a global phenomenon like folk believe it will be, there will be nowhere physically to flee, except into the center of God's will (which is not a physical location but a lifestyle).

I think folk who are digging underground bunkers and stockpiling canned goods are missing the entire point. The best preparation to protect yourself from the "wrath to come" (if you believe in such a thing) is a life of repentance and submission/obedience to God. Who calls us to lay down our life in order to gain it, and not run around in a frenzy of self-protection (which is evidently the exact opposite of laying down your life).

I certainly agree with that assessment as to the context of Matthew 24.

I get the impression you don't believe in a wrath to come, but two passages which suggest fleeing and tie back into Mat 24 are Rev 12:14 and Rev 18:4 both of which suggest leaving the place you are and going to another place. However the first seems to be aimed at those in Judea and the second for those who are in Babylon. The first ties in with the start of the time of Tribulation, the second with the time of God's wrath - though fulfilled by the Beast. Some may argue these two places are the same. This thread though isn't to debate that. It is to think about what practically we should do as members and parts of the church.

One idea that came to me is to look at persecution in various countries and see how the church has managed not to be destroyed, but even to grow. What are the weaknesses and struggles they face which we need to be prepared for.

[Diggindeeper]

This really seems to refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD Early commentaries suggest that the admonition to flee to the mountains was remove all hope of safety from the Jews, as they might taken some encouragement from engagements in the past where a sudden turn after fleeing led to victory, as occurred with Hezekiah and Sennacherib or with the Maccabees against Antiochus. I guess maybe today some people could read this passage and decide to move to the arctic, though.

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?(Matthew 6:25–26)



The Church of Christ is the His Body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23).

It is not for us to prepare the Church any more than it is for us to prepare Christ Himself, but rather for us to ensure that we are within the true Church so that we are well prepared.

Anyway, those are the Scriptures that come to my mind that might apply.

I agree with you, guero. And with Dani H. How can we prepare for something that's already happened??

The only thing we await is the second coming of Christ Jesus to come for us, that where he is there we will be also.

[Vhayes]

I have a question -

If the end times play out as you have proposed, you have stock piled food. What do you do when people who have no way to find or purchase or provide food for themselves and their families approach you for your stock piles? Do you turn them away?

[Diggindeeper]

I have a question -

If the end times play out as you have proposed, you have stock piled food. What do you do when people who have no way to find or purchase or provide food for themselves and their families approach you for your stock piles? Do you turn them away?

Good question! It seems to me all this stockpiling food would amount to look out for #1, of course. And to heck with all the rest.

But since Jesus told them those things would happen in THAT generation who was standing before him, it DID occur already, in AD70. But so many have never studied to see how bad things were then for both Jews and Christians! Its a miracle any survived.

[guero]

Good question! It seems to me all this stockpiling food would amount to look out for #1, of course. And to heck with all the rest.

But since Jesus told them those things would happen in THAT generation who was standing before him, it DID occur already, in AD70. But so many have never studied to see how bad things were then for both Jews and Christians! Its a miracle any survived.

Apparently there was cannibalism of infants during the siege of Jerusalem, which some early commentaries accepted as the basis for the Lord's comment about things being difficult for those with child.

I think the Christians had largely gotten out of Jerusalem, owing to how badly they were being treated by the Jews, so the Jews left bore the brunt of the siege, but the Christian martyrs bore the remaining persecution until Constantine became emperor in the 4th century and legalized Christianity. The next great wave of martyrs occurred in Russia in the 20th century, where it is believed that more Christians perished in the Gulags in the Soviet Union than had perished in all of history up until the Russian Revolution. Stalin even converted a monastery north of the Arctic circle into a special concentration camp where monks, priests, and bishops could be tortured and killed.

[Dani H]

One idea that came to me is to look at persecution in various countries and see how the church has managed not to be destroyed, but even to grow. What are the weaknesses and struggles they face which we need to be prepared for.

"The Church" cannot be destroyed. Jesus said that He would build His Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Individual people can be physically killed, of course. But, they just turn into the grains of wheat that fall into the ground and die, and lead to more being added to The Church. Here we all are 2000 years later as proof of His statement made so long ago.

From what I understand the Church in China was not prepared for the persecution. They were being made to think that all would be well and ended up surprised and horrified at what happened. The best way to prepare anyone for persecution is to teach them that our lives here are but a vapor that can end any minute, and so not put too great emphasis on it, but rather focus people on our life in Christ and get them connected with God in a meaningful way that is going to sustain them, no matter what may happen.

When Jesus told Peter "feed My sheep" I doubt He had mainly fish and bread in mind.

To be quite honest with you, if God ever decides that the Church in the US is up for some persecution cause we're in need of serious purging and cleansing, then there's nothing we can do about it. It's a really bad idea to strive and build towards the goal of living out our days in prosperity and ease. That's dangerous teaching, and whoever focuses people on that ought to be smacked. Hard. Because that's putting the temporary ahead of the eternal rather than the other way around and it turns people into entitled wimps who are going to be mightily surprised at every hardship that comes their way and who are going to blame satan and seek to avoid growing pain at all cost. That's when you end up with a bunch of babies on your hands that either refuse to mature spiritually or flat-out don't know how.

Ok sorry rant. Getting off the soapbox now ...

[tango]

I believe that the Bible teaches a post-tribulation and post-wrath Rapture. Even if you disagree with that idea, imagine if you can that this is correct. What should we be doing now in order to prepare for that time?

I see a number of options:
1) Do nothing except debate endlessly as to when it is happening and what will happen.
2) Don't worry, it is all in God's hands.
3) Prepare to flee somewhere, work out the best location
4) Stockpile food etc.
5) Prepare the church for this to happen

I personally see the value in debate, but it has its limit. I think I shouldn't worry, but at the same time God has told us this all beforehand for a purpose. My first reaction was to find a place to go, like the Jews to their place and stockpile for 3.5 years of tribulation. However, what I think is best is to work out how to prepare the church for this. This is where I need your advice. Two questions then. What are the important things to do in order to prepare the church? Are these any different from what we should be teaching/doing in the church anyway?

Don't even think about surviving without supernatural help. A secular meltdown that lasted even a few months would turn so ugly it would make peoples' heads spin (think of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina but on a global scale with nowhere to hide and not enough food even come close to feeding everyone). Now make that an apocalyptic meltdown as described in Revelation and you're not going to survive it on your own. First of all you'll want 2 litres of water per person per day. For 1260 days that makes 2520 litres of water, or about 2.5 tonnes of it. That doesn't even include anything to hold the water. Don't bank on finding it, as so much of it turned to blood. Where are you going to keep 2.5 tonnes of water per person, and if you have to leave in a hurry how are you going to haul it with you?

Water requirements alone render it impossible, before you even consider food, shelter, medicine etc.

[Vakeros]

It is interesting the lines people are taking on this. I believe the church is God's but we are His bride and it is our responsibility to give correct teaching and preparation and to think through issues such as how to be a church that hangs in there when the going gets tough. There are two things I am thinking about - the first is are we ready to witness when prophecy is fulfilled in front of our eyes? The second is are we ready to endure to the end. I completely agree it is about being close to God, but we have had almost 2,000 years to be ready for this. Yet I don't think the church is ready.

[Diggindeeper]

There's one big problem with your statement, "...it is our responsibility to give correct teaching and preparation and to think through issues such as how to be a church that hangs in there when the going gets tough.'

The problem is when you don't have all the facts on what you are teaching to begin with. And you don't.

[Dani H]

it is our responsibility to give correct teaching

The problem with that statement is that we, the Bride, can't even agree which teaching is correct. Reading the same Bible.

The Church isn't ready because she has to deal with so much conflicting information. It's very difficult to know what the truth is, when you have so many conflicting statements claiming to be truth.

Any wonder the world is confused when the Church is no better off?

Can't prepare people if you can't tell them with authority what it is they're actually preparing for, other than beliefs, opinions, and convictions about what is to come, without actually knowing it.