God loves all

[Christinme]

It's been my understanding that God loves all.

Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jesus tells his disciples to "love your enemies ... so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven." And "if you only love those who love you" you are being like the tax collectors. This says to me that the Father who is in heaven loves his enemies and the Father doesn't just love those who love Him. It goes on to say that this is how we can be perfect like the Father is perfect.

[PJW]

I agree completely. No sin is love. So if you sin, you are not loving somebody. Maybe even yourself.

[keck553]

Does Jesus love those to whom He says:"Away from me, doers of iniquity, I do not know you..." How about Esau?My point is that God doesn't contradict Himself, so we really need to know what God's definition of "love" is, not our definition.

[Christinme]

Does Jesus love those to whom He says:"Away from me, doers of iniquity, I do not know you..."

That is a parable concerning a future event, the parable is meant to warn and teach, God is warning and teaching because of His love for them.

How about Esau?My point is that God doesn't contradict Himself, so we really need to know what God's definition of "love" is, not our definition.

Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

Concerning Esau we need to really understand God's definition of "hate" not our definition. We also have to consider whether certain passages are referring to salvation or something else. And I agree God doesn't contradict Himself.

[keck553]

That is a parable concerning a future event, the parable is meant to warn and teach, God is warning and teaching because of His love for them.

You didn't answer my question. How does Jesus love these folks:

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

These prophecies are about real people, not phantoms. The point I was making is that for God to be true to His nature, He must be just. It's not in a "love/hate" context, and the same goes for us humans. Justice is not weighed on the scale of "love / hate." Although we can and should dispense mercy in the proper circumstances, just as God does. The question is "whom does God have undeserved favor on?" Let that be our guide if we are to walk in His way.

Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

Concerning Esau we need to really understand God's definition of "hate" not our definition. We also have to consider whether certain passages are referring to salvation or something else. And I agree God doesn't contradict Himself.

I agree that 'hate' in it's Hebrew meaning is not an absolute, rather it is a weighty matter. You are correct on this one.

[Redeemed by Grace]

Has God prepared hell for those He loves? For we know God chastens those He loves. So who then goes to Hell if He loves all men?

[Christinme]

You didn't answer my question. How does Jesus love these folks:

Again this was a parable ...

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

These prophecies are about real people, not phantoms.

Agreed this isn't a parable . Here God did not decide to directly state He loved these people and He did not directly state He did not love them. And considering it is written:

Revelation 22:18-19 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

I'm not going to add anything to the words of this book, if you want to ... proceed at your own risk. As I said earlier here it doesn't directly say one way or another so I will have to look at other scripture to determine how vast God's love is.

The point I was making is that for God to be true to His nature, He must be just. It's not in a "love/hate" context, and the same goes for us humans. Justice is not weighed on the scale of "love / hate."

Glad to here you say that.

Although we can and should dispense mercy in the proper circumstances, just as God does. The question is "whom does God have undeserved favor on?" Let that be our guide if we are to walk in His way.

My understanding is we are to "dispense" love in all circumstances, just as God does and I think that should be our guide to walk in His way.

Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

[Christinme]

Has God prepared hell for those He loves?

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

If by hell you mean the eternal fire in this parable Jesus states that it was prepared for the devil and his angels.

For we know God chastens those He loves.

God chastens all, so yea He chastens those He loves.

So who then goes to Hell if He loves all men?

The devil and his angels and all that don't chose God. He loves them enough to let them go where they want. Eventually that is what every parent has to do. You might not like what they do or chose but it doesn't mean you don't love them. Just like the prodigal son ... got to let them go. Or as is said elsewhere deliver them to satan.

[keck553]

Again this was a parable ...


Agreed this isn't a parable . Here God did not decide to directly state He loved these people and He did not directly state He did not love them. And considering it is written:

Revelation 22:18-19 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

I'm not going to add anything to the words of this book, if you want to ... proceed at your own risk. As I said earlier here it doesn't directly say one way or another so I will have to look at other scripture to determine how vast God's love is.


Glad to here you say that.


My understanding is we are to "dispense" love in all circumstances, just as God does and I think that should be our guide to walk in His way.

Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

And then there is that whole election can of worms to deal with.............

As Solomon wrote, there are seasons for many things, peace and war included. That wisdom comes directly from God, so I'm not goinig to ignore it.

Sometimes love carries a big stick. Or in Jesus' case a rod of iron.

[Caleb]

Has God prepared hell for those He loves? For we know God chastens those He loves. So who then goes to Hell if He loves all men?

As any Father, God chastises His children.

God cannot and will not allow any sin or stain of sin to enter His Kingdom or the new heaven and earth, or we will be back to square one.
That is why He will make all things new. As much as God loves man, all that will not or does not get cleansed by the blood of Christ shall have to be burned up.

God is Love and He does not change. No one and nothing can change Him
Just as God is Holy and He does not change. No one and nothing can change Him.

Every thought and action of God is love, just as every thought and action is holy, and righteous and just. To say that God can be unloving towards anyone, is to say that He can be unholy, unrighteous and unjust towards someone.

[keck553]

As any Father, God chastises His children.

God cannot and will not allow any sin or stain of sin to enter His Kingdom or the new heaven and earth, or we will be back to square one.
That is why He will make all things new. As much as God loves man, all that will not or does not get cleansed by the blood of Christ shall have to be burned up.

God is Love and He does not change. No one and nothing can change Him
Just as God is Holy and He does not change. No one and nothing can change Him.

Every thought and action of God is love, just as every thought and action is holy, and righteous and just. To say that God can be unloving towards anyone, is to say that He can be unholy, unrighteous and unjust towards someone.

I think the problem arises when we insert our subjective moral relativism into God's economy.

[Christinme]

Sometimes love carries a big stick. Or in Jesus' case a rod of iron.

Yup ... I agree.

[Christinme]

Every thought and action of God is love, just as every thought and action is holy, and righteous and just. To say that God can be unloving towards anyone, is to say that He can be unholy, unrighteous and unjust towards someone.

I never thought of it that way, that has a strong impact on me, thanks.

[Christinme]

I think the problem arises when we insert our subjective moral relativism into God's economy.

Yea like if we say He can't love them if He allows them to go into the eternal fire.

[keck553]

Yea like if we say He can't love them if He allows them to go into the eternal fire.

Its not about love. Its about justice.