Is it better to obey God or the Government?

[Brother Mark]

After 12 posts, it is so far 100% for obeying God.

I wonder if this will change now after people reading about physical war.

If God tells us;Philippians 4:5 NKJV'Let your gentleness be known to all men.'
and
The Government tells us to go and fight in a war,

Who will we be obedient to?

I hope people can change their vote[I don't know if this is possible, or vote again]

Well, apparently you believe that war is always against the will of God for the believer. That's where people will disagree with you.

[Colight]

We are to render to God what is his and to Caesar what is his.

Romans 13
5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.
6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.



We are to have Civil Obedience and subjection to government officials who GOD has brought upon us, for they are lifted up by God to have rule over us.

[dan]

Well, apparently you believe that war is always against the will of God for the believer. That's where people will disagree with you.

Indeed, God tells you to go to war, when necessary:

NUM 32:20 And Moses said to them: If you do what you promise, go on well appointed for war before the Lord:
NUM 32:21 And let every fighting man pass over the Jordan, until the Lord overthrow his enemies :
NUM 32:22 And all the land be brought under him, then shall you be blameless before the Lord and before Israel, and you shall obtain the countries that you desire, before the Lord.
NUM 32:23 But if you do not what you say, no man can doubt but you sin against God: and know ye, that your sin shall overtake you.

EX 15:3 Jehovah is a man of war: Jehovah is his name.

PS 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
PS 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

PROV 20:18 Every purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war.

[keck553]

We are to render to God what is his and to Caesar what is his.

Romans 13
5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.
6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.



We are to have Civil Obedience and subjection to government officials who GOD has brought upon us, for they are lifted up by God to have rule over us.

We don't have government officials in the US in the same context Paul was speaking to. We have hired servents. The officials are the people in covenant with the constitution. Anything beyond that is not "official," it is a rogue and not to be obeyed.

[Colight]

We don't have government officials in the US in the same context Paul was speaking to. We have hired servents. The officials are the people in covenant with the constitution. Anything beyond that is not "official," it is a rogue and not to be obeyed.

Paul had NERO..
who was much worse than any thing we have today.

The officials we have in power today are there because CHRIST placed them there.
Christ controls history.
It is commanded in ROMANS that we are to submit and it is in good conscience to do so..
It is stated in ROMANS that they are Gods servants, this was during the rule of UNBELIEVING Roman Caesars.
Nero as he killed Christians.. was Gods servant to be honored and given tribute to.

Christ stated thru the writing of Paul, this is what we are to do.

I feel it would be risky 2nd guess that... and go against what was commanded,but that is just me.

[tea]

Paul had NERO..
who was much worse than any thing we have today.

The officials we have in power today are there because CHRIST placed them there.
Christ controls history.
It is commanded in ROMANS that we are to submit and it is in good conscience to do so..
It is stated in ROMANS that they are Gods servants, this was during the rule of UNBELIEVING Roman Caesars.
Nero as he killed Christians.. was Gods servant to be honored and given tribute to.

Christ stated thru the writing of Paul, this is what we are to do.

I feel it would be risky 2nd guess that... and go against what was commanded,but that is just me.

Do you feel we need to obey the government even if they are asking us to disobey God?

[tea]

We don't have government officials in the US in the same context Paul was speaking to. We have hired servents. The officials are the people in covenant with the constitution. Anything beyond that is not "official," it is a rogue and not to be obeyed.

Perhaps we'll learn in heaven that many governments today are actually worse than Nero's time,if we see how many have inocent woman and children been killed by 'stray' bombs in war, FAR more people have died by these than in Nero's time!

[tea]

Indeed, God tells you to go to war, when necessary:

NUM 32:20 And Moses said to them: If you do what you promise, go on well appointed for war before the Lord:
NUM 32:21 And let every fighting man pass over the Jordan, until the Lord overthrow his enemies :
NUM 32:22 And all the land be brought under him, then shall you be blameless before the Lord and before Israel, and you shall obtain the countries that you desire, before the Lord.
NUM 32:23 But if you do not what you say, no man can doubt but you sin against God: and know ye, that your sin shall overtake you.

EX 15:3 Jehovah is a man of war: Jehovah is his name.

PS 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
PS 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

PROV 20:18 Every purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war.

Yes, I agree, in the OLD Covenant, there are many commands. Jesus has brought in a NEW Covenant where some of the commands are different[see Matt 5, Luke 6].

If you want to live after the OLD, then please do so, but then surley you can't say you are following Christs commands?

[tea]

That depends on whether people respond with their own moral relativism or not.

God doesn't define war as sin.

Do you believe that you are obeying Jesus' command; Philippians 4:5 NKJV
'Let your gentleness be known to all men.' by going to war?

This can be addressed to Brother Mark too

[dan]

Yes, I agree, in the OLD Covenant, there are many commands. Jesus has brought in a NEW Covenant where some of the commands are different[see Matt 5, Luke 6].

If you want to live after the OLD, then please do so, but then surley you can't say you are following Christs commands?

I wonder about your logic in this regard.

It's obvious to me that all the Law is in effect for Christians except the diet, and ceremonial aspects. Perhaps that constitutes a totally different Law to you. It doesn't to me.

[RollTide21]

I wonder about your logic in this regard.

It's obvious to me that all the Law is in effect for Christians except the diet, and ceremonial aspects. Perhaps that constitutes a totally different Law to you. It doesn't to me.

The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ is a different discussion.

But...I don't find it valid for people to use the Nation of Israel as an example of justification for War. God specifically called the Nation of Israel out of Egypt and had specific purposes for each conflict with which they were involved. He was establishing His People in the World demonstrate His Power over the Pagan Nations that the Israelites conquered. That there were wars in the OT doesn't in and of itself justify War in general today.

[tea]

I wonder about your logic in this regard.

It's obvious to me that all the Law is in effect for Christians except the diet, and ceremonial aspects. Perhaps that constitutes a totally different Law to you. It doesn't to me.

Well please show me your logic by answering the question;Do you believe that you are obeying Jesus' command; Philippians 4:5 NKJV
'Let your gentleness be known to all men.' by going to war?

Or do you think Jesus was being illogical by the inspiration of Phil 4:5?

[tea]

The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ is a different discussion.

But...I don't find it valid for people to use the Nation of Israel as an example of justification for War. God specifically called the Nation of Israel out of Egypt and had specific purposes for each conflict with which they were involved. He was establishing His People in the World demonstrate His Power over the Pagan Nations that the Israelites conquered. That there were wars in the OT doesn't in and of itself justify War in general today.

Thanks for this clear comment!

[keck553]

Paul had NERO..
who was much worse than any thing we have today.

The officials we have in power today are there because CHRIST placed them there.
Christ controls history.
It is commanded in ROMANS that we are to submit and it is in good conscience to do so..
It is stated in ROMANS that they are Gods servants, this was during the rule of UNBELIEVING Roman Caesars.
Nero as he killed Christians.. was Gods servant to be honored and given tribute to.

Christ stated thru the writing of Paul, this is what we are to do.

I feel it would be risky 2nd guess that... and go against what was commanded,but that is just me.

Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[keck553]

Do you believe that you are obeying Jesus' command; Philippians 4:5 NKJV
'Let your gentleness be known to all men.' by going to war?

This can be addressed to Brother Mark too

Yes .