Jesus did not arm His disciples with swords.

[Neanias]

It is so contradictory to see Christians justify violence turning the crucifixion of Christ into an example, as if the Lord's thought was "hold it Peter, this time is different. The time before and the time after, you swing that sword! But today is an exception."

Jesus going to the cross was not just to save us, so we could be safe and live safe self defensive lives, to the opposite, it was for our example, that we would do as he did. Peter didn't fight the Romans to his death (neither did any other early Christian, by the way)... He was crucified like his master. In the same way, we must follow the example of our master.

1 Peter 2
¹⁹For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. ²⁰For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

²¹For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

²²Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
²³Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

[Neanias]

The spirit which animates the "patriotic American Christianity" is the exact same spirit that animated the Nazi's. "We are executing God's judgment on this earth". Violence in the name of Christianity is not a first... And the crowd is as fooled by it today as it was then!

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 46
"I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
— Adolf Hitler, ibid. p. 65

[Neanias]

"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."
— Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1

The spirit which seeks to 'burn out' or destroy what we may judge to be opposed to God in our own way and time is not the Lord's Spirit. It is a spirit of violence, of arrogance, which makes us to deem ourselves to be God's agent of judgment... It is completely opposite to the gentle Spirit of Christ, which says "turn the other cheek, love your enemy..." It seeks destruction rather than life.

[awestruckchild]

Very, very, very well said, Neanias.

[shepherdsword]

Even those who stand by the the sword translation admit that Jesus didn't actually say it in the Greek text. .

The word IS in the text. The word used is "μάχαιρα" and means:

μάχαιρα(machaira)

1) a large knife, used for killing animals and cutting up flesh
2) a small sword, as distinguished from a large sword
a) curved sword, for a cutting stroke
b) a straight sword, for thrusting

I'm not sure what greek text you are using but I am using the TR and it is definitely there. However,the use of the word doesn't justify a christian's involvement in an unjust war. While I am not what you would call a "pacifist" ,I don't think that we should drink the kool-aid served by a worldly system.
We will all stand at the judgment seat of Christ. How can we justify our participation in a babylonian,antichrist world system that spills innocent blood for oil,power and greed? We owe our allegiance to the Kingdom of Christ and nothing else.

[awestruckchild]

The light disturbs the wicked and stops the arm that is raised in violence. Job, I think?

[awestruckchild]

And gotta say, before Epi even got into his explanation, I already knew without it that I am not to defend myself, because Jesus has said it. I never argue with what He said by pitting ANY other verse against what He has said. I just assume there is a hole in my understanding and go with what I know for sure He instructed me.

[keck553]

And gott say, before Epi even got into his explanation, I already knew without it that I am niot to defend myself, because Jesus has said it. I never argue with what He said by pitting ANY other verse against what He has said. I just assume there is a hole in my understanding and go with what I know for sure He instructed me.

Those holes are usually constructed by worship of a particular false doctrine rather than worship of the one true God. This is very common in cults.

[episkopos]

"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."
— Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1

The spirit which seeks to 'burn out' or destroy what we may judge to be opposed to God in our own way and time is not the Lord's Spirit. It is a spirit of violence, of arrogance, which makes us to deem ourselves to be God's agent of judgment... It is completely opposite to the gentle Spirit of Christ, which says "turn the other cheek, love your enemy..." It seeks destruction rather than life.

Amen brother!

God has blinded the hearts of the "wise" and revealed the truth to the innocent ones!

[episkopos]

Mind conditioning takes place where some verses are deemed important while others ignored completely. The conditioned person will get very upset indeed when that conditioning is exposed...like trying to wake up a person from a very deep sleep.

[episkopos]

Many would refute Paul when he says that the weapons of OUR warfare are NOT carnal. Who's the OUR? It is obviously the followers of Christ.

When Jesus said that He had come to bring a sword to the earth....many see this as justifying the invasion of other countries....

But this is to twist the meaning of the word to a swift destruction.

The kingdom of Christ is NOT of this world. Those who act as a part of this world will perish with this world.

[awestruckchild]

Those holes are usually constructed by worship of a particular false doctrine rather than worship of the one true God. This is very common in cults.

For me, the holes are more of just....not having every single answer right now.
The holes are there for all of us. But it is how we choose to ADDRESS the holes that is a little disturbing sometimes. If Jesus came to reveal things hidden since the beginning of the world, it doesn't seem the smart way to go to disregard what HE said to make everything seem to fit together. So to use other verses to convince yourself or others that picking up a weapon in self defense is okay with Him when Jesus plainly told his followers to not do it, is using scripture in a very bad way, in my opinion. Now, if you want to admit that you are rejecting what Jesus said to do because you have found other verses that make you doubt what He said, then I think you should at least have the honesty to admit that you are doing it because it seems best to you.

[awestruckchild]

Yes, yes, and yes Epi!!!

[keck553]

For me, the holes are more of just....not having every single answer right now.
The holes are there for all of us. But it is how we choose to ADDRESS the holes that is a little disturbing sometimes. If Jesus came to reveal things hidden since the beginning of the world, it doesn't seem the smart way to go to disregard what HE said to make everything seem to fit together. So to use other verses to convince yourself or others that picking up a weapon in self defense is okay with Him when Jesus plainly told his followers to not do it, is using scripture in a very bad way, in my opinion. Now, if you want to admit that you are rejecting what Jesus said to do because you have found other verses that make you doubt what He said, then I think you should at least have the honesty to admit that you are doing it because it seems best to you.

I am not in error just because you and 4 other people say I am. What I do know is when a handful of folks claim they have special revelation from God 99.9999% of the rest of us Christians do not have, that is by default a cult. Especially when they use a forum to play tag team.

May God bless you and keep you.

[awestruckchild]

I am not in error just because you and 4 other people say I am. What I do know is when a handful of folks claim they have special revelation from God 99.9999% of the rest of us Christians do not have, that is by default a cult. Especially when they use a forum to play tag team.

May God bless you and keep you.

I don't know how I made you think I was saying you were in some error. I was just conversing with you about the "holes". Sorry I made you think I was saying you were in some error. I mean, I really do think we all are in some error, but....I wasn't trying to convey that to you. I was just gabbing about Jesus. Sorry.