New at this. Throwing this out there. Bear with me.

[Angel Water]

When I browse Christian forums inevitably there, as I found here, is a thread that asks what is the most reliable Bible translation.

So I got to thinking, as there is also conflict among Christians, sectarianism being an example, about what the Bible says and also means by that. The literalists, or Fundamentalists, the liberals, etc...
All vie for what they claim is what the word says.

As it's been said of Judaism, and that being the very root of the Christian faith origin, that it is a mystery tradition and as such, what if the Bible was never to be taken literally. But instead was allegory, so as to give those who were initiates into unlocking the mystery, or reading the parables, the insight into the core message.
While the rest of those who read it are left simply to hold faith in the words, while missing the spirit that lives behind them.

Such as what Jesus revealed in Mark 4:10-14.

I also can't help but to reflect on that and the curtain, sort of speak, that veils the true spirit, being in keeping with what__________ authored in, ________________
Something that the ancient scribes would have known about, so as to keep the deeper mystery secured. While setting to parchment the keywords, sort of speak, for those with the insight to find the path unto God or the Divine.

And perhaps that's why to this day people seek out or read Bible Codes, because there's some innate spiritual invitation to look deeper.

As someone once said, dare to read the white. (read between the lines)

Just wanted to throw that out there. I find allegory fascinating and thought it would be interesting to consider how it would relate to the Bible. Especially in light of Mark.

Thanks for reading.

[Saved7]

Thread appears to be advertisement as well as espousing false teachings. Thread closed while under mod review.

[Saved7]

MOD NOTE: We are a conservative Christian board and do not promote false doctrines. However if you wish to discuss other religions we do have a section called Areopagus that you are welcome to post in. Moving thread there. As for your links I will let the mods of that forum decide if they should stay. Also it is obvious from another thread that you are not a Christian so please restrict your posting to the Christians Answer forum or the Areopagus forum for religious discussions apart from true Christianity.

[nzyr]

I don't believe the bible is allegorical. And I believe the men who wrote it didn't write it as an allegory. God spoke to the prophets. He also spoke to Moses. And I believe Jesus is real. And that he will return someday. Also most if not all of the martyrs didn't believe the bible was an allegory. I also believe all of the prophesies that are in the bible shall be fulfilled someday.

[glad4mercy]

I don't believe the bible is allegorical. And I believe the men who wrote it didn't write it as an allegory. God spoke to the prophets. He also spoke to Moses. And I believe Jesus is real. And that he will return someday. Also most if not all of the martyrs didn't believe the bible was an allegory. I also believe all of the prophesies that are in the bible shall be fulfilled someday.

Great post!!! The Bible is the inspired word of God, not the myths of men.


2 Peter 1:20-21-knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came
by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

1 John 4:6- We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. ( The reason I posted this verse was to show that the Apostles claimed Divine authority for the NT writings.)

2 John 2: 9-Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints

[awestruckchild]

MOD NOTE: We are a conservative Christian board and do not promote false doctrines. However if you wish to discuss other religions we do have a section called Areopagus that you are welcome to post in. Moving thread there. As for your links I will let the mods of that forum decide if they should stay. Also it is obvious from another thread that you are not a Christian so please restrict your posting to the Christians Answer forum or the Areopagus forum for religious discussions apart from true Christianity.

I could be wrong here, but I think she thought the op in that other thread was ASKING her to throw out a refutation on the two points, as if she was the one arguing against God existing. I didn't think she BELIEVED them but was trying to help him with refutations she imagined someone might give.
I could be wrong
It's happened before.

[awestruckchild]

Angel,

I guess I didn't think this post was so far out there.
I looked up a brief synopsis on the book you mentioned. I noticed long ago that every society and civilization has seemed to have elements of the story. There IS only one story because there is only one author, and as for societies stories of heroes and journeys, it is just always a repeat of good vs. evil and love stories with some sort of sacrifices. This IS the story.

As for men hiding the spirit of the words, I don't think so. The words are literal and can only be read or understood in a literal way until one receives the Spirit who understands them. Only spirit understands spirit. The spirit of the words is hidden, there is no doubt about that. Jesus said to His disciples that it wasn't for everyone to understand the parables. It is for those who the Spirit opens them for, which He does when He lives in a man.

I don't know what the man who wrote that book believes, but I can see the story patterns throughout all of civilization. They all had pieces of the story simply because it IS the story.

Anyway, I guess we'll know for sure what's in your head when you come back and explain.

Thanks for the candles earlier in that other thread!

[Angel Water]

I could be wrong here, but I think she thought the op in that other thread was ASKING her to throw out a refutation on the two points, as if she was the one arguing against God existing. I didn't think she BELIEVED them but was trying to help him with refutations she imagined someone might give.
I could be wrong
It's happened before.

As it happens, you're not wrong this time. Surprised?
I appreciate your taking the time to read me in that thread and understand my point of view.

[Angel Water]

MOD NOTE: We are a conservative Christian board and do not promote false doctrines. However if you wish to discuss other religions we do have a section called Areopagus that you are welcome to post in. Moving thread there. As for your links I will let the mods of that forum decide if they should stay. Also it is obvious from another thread that you are not a Christian so please restrict your posting to the Christians Answer forum or the Areopagus forum for religious discussions apart from true Christianity.

As I stated in the subject line, I was new at this. So it is understandable my error in posting the inquiry afforded by this thread, in the Bible section.

I appreciate it being moved to where it is thought better suited for attention and respectful replies.

The Joseph Campbell references having been edited from the OP, is a surprise I will say. He was a renowned scholar on myth, fable and comparative religion.

Also, I will forgive you and pray for your sin, in your judgment claiming it is obvious I am not a Christian. You have no right to do so. The Lord knows my heart. And God is watching.
I would request an apology for your offense. However, I doubt your sin would afford you that grace.

Be blessed Brother.

[Angel Water]

Angel,

I guess I didn't think this post was so far out there.
I looked up a brief synopsis on the book you mentioned. I noticed long ago that every society and civilization has seemed to have elements of the story. There IS only one story because there is only one author, and as for societies stories of heroes and journeys, it is just always a repeat of good vs. evil and love stories with some sort of sacrifices. This IS the story.

As for men hiding the spirit of the words, I don't think so. The words are literal and can only be read or understood in a literal way until one receives the Spirit who understands them. Only spirit understands spirit. The spirit of the words is hidden, there is no doubt about that. Jesus said to His disciples that it wasn't for everyone to understand the parables. It is for those who the Spirit opens them for, which He does when He lives in a man.

I don't know what the man who wrote that book believes, but I can see the story patterns throughout all of civilization. They all had pieces of the story simply because it IS the story.

Anyway, I guess we'll know for sure what's in your head when you come back and explain.

Thanks for the candles earlier in that other thread!

You're most welcome, sister.

I think when the word says that God is immanent, that the Kingdom of God is within, that implies that the creator resides within all that it has created.

As such, I find it fascinating that there, per the Campbell reference, appears to be a thread relating to that similarity in all myths and fables of civilizations that existed prior to the authoring of the revealed word in the Bible.

As if that innate truth was at the heart of everything already and finally the words were revealed in one succinct place. So that the one truth had found it's way into the world and thus all roads, (myths, fable, underlying messages relating that truth), finally found their way to the words of God that acted as beacon unto them.

When Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within, and that he spoke in parables so that those who would understand did, and those for whom the words were not meant would not, I find that fascinating.

Which is why I also was wondering about the allegorical aspect. If Jesus spoke in parables, how would allegory within, say the OT, be out of the question?

Thank you sister, for seeing my heart in this sincere inquiry.

[glad4mercy]

I think when the word says that God is immanent, that the Kingdom of God is within, that implies that the creator resides within all that it has created.

Are you referring to God as an "it"? You don't believe in an impersonal God do you?

I think when the word says that God is immanent, that the Kingdom of God is within, that implies that the creator resides within all that it has created.

The Bible does not teach panentheism anywhere. If you believe it does, please provide scripture and verse. I believe that when Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within, He meant that the Kingdom of God is the reality of God reigning in the hearts of those who love Him, and also the Greek word that is translated within can also be translated in the midst, in other words it was already present in the person of Jesus. Jesus' Kingdom is the stone cut out without hands in Daniel 2.

As such, I find it fascinating that there, per the Campbell reference, appears to be a thread relating to that similarity in all myths and fables of civilizations that existed prior to the authoring of the revealed word in the Bible.

There are no myths or fables in the Bible.

2 Peter 1:16- For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

In fact, the apostles warned that people would turn away from the truth of the Bible, to believe fables.

2 Timothy 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables

The Bible is not fables, but it is sound doctrine, ( teaching), as demonstrated by the following verse...

2 Timothy 3:16- All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Parables and allegories, ( which are in the Bible), are not the same as myths and fables, ( which are not)

...and the disciples were careful to maintain that their writings were not mere stories, but were eyewitness accounts...

1 John 1: 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard , which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon , and our hands have handled , of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested , and we have seen it, and bear witness , and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

As if that innate truth was at the heart of everything already and finally the words were revealed in one succinct place. So that the one truth had found it's way into the world and thus all roads, (myths, fable, underlying messages relating that truth), finally found their way to the words of God that acted as beacon unto them.

There are not many roads to salvation, there is only one way, Jesus, the Way, the Truth, and Life. The only way all roads lead to God is in the fact that all roads lead to judgement, that is each of us will give an account of ourselves to God. Yet salvation is found in Christ and no other.

John 14:6- Jesus saith unto him, I am the way , the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12- Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved

Which is why I also was wondering about the allegorical aspect. If Jesus spoke in parables, how would allegory within, say the OT, be out of the question

Parables and allegories, ( which are in the Bible), are not the same as myths and fables, ( which are not)

Jesus spoke in parables, in which He used earthly stories to illustrate heavenly realities. And yes, there are allegories in the Old Testament. Yet the Bible makes it very clear which stories are allegories, and which stories are historical. You have to consider the genre of the literature that you are reading.

Which is why I also was wondering about the allegorical aspect. If Jesus spoke in parables, how would allegory within, say the OT, be out of the question?

Perhaps you can provide some examples for us to discuss.

.

[awestruckchild]

Angel,
It is not good for you to demand an apology.
If someone has offended you, it is only necessary for you to forgive them.
The moment we take offense, we have left off following Jesus and begun to follow our own sense of honor.
If we believe someone has spoken harshly to us, we are to respond in kindness, To respond any other way never works to bring any unity.
Also, if something we have said has offended someone else, we should try to just leave it be, instead of bringing back up what has caused the offense.

This is how we overcome the desires of the flesh and bitterness, and walk how we are meant to walk with each other.
I beg you to walk gently and work for unity. I know how hard it is. I've been working on it too!

I also see Him everywhere I look. I even see Him in my relationship with my DOG! I see Him when I see a mother and child interacting. Most heartbreaking, I see us striking Him and spitting on Him when we are ungentle with each other...

But I also see Him when even one person reacts in kindness when they feel they are being treated badly. That is when I see Him most strongly and it is when I find strength from another. We need to strengthen each other and not bicker. We need to serve each other. And of course, we ALL need to listen more.

[guestman]

When I browse Christian forums inevitably there, as I found here, is a thread that asks what is the most reliable Bible translation.

So I got to thinking, as there is also conflict among Christians, sectarianism being an example, about what the Bible says and also means by that. The literalists, or Fundamentalists, the liberals, etc...
All vie for what they claim is what the word says.

As it's been said of Judaism, and that being the very root of the Christian faith origin, that it is a mystery tradition and as such, what if the Bible was never to be taken literally. But instead was allegory, so as to give those who were initiates into unlocking the mystery, or reading the parables, the insight into the core message.
While the rest of those who read it are left simply to hold faith in the words, while missing the spirit that lives behind them.

Such as what Jesus revealed in Mark 4:10-14.

I also can't help but to reflect on that and the curtain, sort of speak, that veils the true spirit, being in keeping with what__________ authored in, ________________
Something that the ancient scribes would have known about, so as to keep the deeper mystery secured. While setting to parchment the keywords, sort of speak, for those with the insight to find the path unto God or the Divine.

And perhaps that's why to this day people seek out or read Bible Codes, because there's some innate spiritual invitation to look deeper.

As someone once said, dare to read the white. (read between the lines)

Just wanted to throw that out there. I find allegory fascinating and thought it would be interesting to consider how it would relate to the Bible. Especially in light of Mark.

Thanks for reading.

Indeed, there is division and conflict among so-called "Christians", being divided among approximately 37,000 different sects, claiming Jesus Christ as their Leader. There are well over two billion members of those faiths. Sectarianism is the "order of the day" for them. There are those who say that all in the Bible is literal, whereas others are more liberal. For example, some feel that the Genesis account is an allegory, that Adam and Eve were not real. Hence, for many, the Bible is a "mystery", not sure what is what.

The Scripture of Mark 4:1-14 is presented, with Jesus saying to his disciples: "To you the sacred secret ("sacred secret", Greek mysterion, meaning "a secret or mystery", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G3466) kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things occur in illustrations, in order that, though looking, they may look and yet not see, and, though hearing, they may hear and yet not get the sense of it ("sense of it", Greek syniosin, meaning "to mentally put the pieces together", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G4920) nor ever turn back and forgiveness be given them.”(Mark 4:11, 12)

What does this mean ? That only Jesus genuine disciples or true Christians would be able to unlock "the sacred secret(s) of the kingdom" ("mystery of the kingdom", King James Bible), whereas to all others what Jesus said was just a good illustration or "story". What is "the sacred secret(s) of the kingdom" that "has been kept in silence for long-lasting times (over 4000 years) but has now been made manifest" ?(Rom 16:25)

Jesus established that the "kingdom" or heavenly government would be made up of individuals chosen by Jehovah God.(Matt 20:23; 2 Thess 2:13) He then brought forth that only small number would be selected, saying: "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom."(Luke 12:32) These later was seen as numbering 144,000 (Rev 14:1), who were "bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”(Rev 5:9, 10)

No one prior to Jesus has been resurrected to heaven (John 3:13), for the choosing for members of God's kingdom only followed after Jesus offered his precious shed blood to heavenly Father, Jehovah.(Heb 9:12, 24) The apostle Paul wrote that "we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place (heaven) by the blood of Jesus, which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh."(Heb 10:19, 20) Indeed, heavenly life was new, for Paul wrote that "if anyone is in union with Christ, he is a new creation."(2 Cor 5:17)

For what purpose did God form a heavenly government (called "a stone not made with hands", see also Matt 21:43, 44) that came from his own universal sovereignty, spoken of as a "mountain" at Daniel 2:44, 45 ? For the sole purpose "to break up the works of the devil" (1 John 3:10) that originated sin, causing sickness,sorrow and death.(Gen 3:19) The paradise that Jehovah had placed Adam and Eve in was also lost, for they were "drove out" of the Garden of Eden.(Gen 3:24)

In order to restore what Adam lost for his offspring, the hope of living forever on a paradise earth in perfection (Ps 37:11, 29; Matt 5:5), God created a new feature of his universal sovereignty, God's kingdom, made up of 144,000 individuals from the earth who have shown their love for Jehovah, being anointed with holy spirit (Rom 8:15-17) and that was held as a "sacred secret" for over 4000 years, with details being unveiled gradually, such as who the ' woman's seed' is that would ' bruise the serpent in the head '.(Gen 3:15)