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Thread: Confusion early on in Genesis

  1. #16
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The 2nd time "void" and "without form" is used would be in Jeremiah 4:23. Obviously a future event from Jeremiah's perspective, since Israel is much of the context in that chapter, and the fact there would be no such thing as Israel as of yet in Genesis 1:2. So even tho similar language is used in Jeremiah 4, it would be out of context to place that anywhere but in Israel's future.
    Absolutely.
    But I mean, the sense of the words. The sense of the words isn't real good in either case in which they are used. It gives me the feeling of "not good." Tohuw and bohuw - not good. Void and without form-not good. Not to mention that "void and without form" leaves you scratching your head because God created the heavens and earth and the earth was....not good. In the first place, why form the separation of heaven and earth? I think satan had something to do with that...by the way, we could use you for the word study in the other thread. I know, I know, sounds like work, but read the thread through - it's intriguing enough to make the work worth it!
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  2. #17

    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid View Post
    It was traditionally believed that Adam had 33 sons and 23 daughters.

    Josephus says (parenthesis mine) , "He (Adam) had indeed many other children, but Seth in particular. As for the rest, it would be tedious to name them"- Antiquities 1.2:3
    I was just curious what source you were using for the numbers 33 and 23? I had never heard specific numbers assigned to how many kids they had before.

  3. #18
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    I think he was using the writing of a man named Josephus.
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  4. #19
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    As to those who might see it like that, I wouldn't see how that would work tho. Why would God then have to say let there be light? Shouldn't there already be light via His presence of being there?

    Then verse 4 states this.

    Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    If that was meaning His glory, why would He see that His glory was good? Wouldn't His glory already be good, beyond good actually, and that He wouldn't need to conclude that after seeing the light?
    I missed this post until I was rereading this thread. THIS goes to exactly what I have been saying in a couple of different threads. We have all the clues we need right in these beginning verses. God does not like separations. That very first separation, if you look up all of the Hebrew words, was NOT good. So then, the quandary is: how did God create such awfulness and darkness? It can only be by a NEGATIVE creation. This is the ONLY WAY light can create darkness!
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  5. #20
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Also, it fits seamlessly for the words I gave in the other thread. He called the light "everlasting" and He called the darkness- adversity; a twist away from the light.
    It can't possibly make sense to call the light "morning" as we think of it and to call the darkness "night" as we think of it because the sun and moon WERE NOT CREATED YET.
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  6. #21

    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael1325 View Post
    Also, Adam and Eve being the first man and woman had relations and created Cain and Abel. After Cain kills Abel and God punishes Cain, Cain states his fear of being killed by anyone who finds him. God said anyone that kills him will be punished sevenfold. If Adam and Eve were first, and they created Cain and Abel, where did these people Cain fears come from? Soon after, Cain's wife is mentioned. Where did she come from?

    I assume that the answer is that Adam and Eve with the FIRST, not the ONLY? Correct? But why isn't there a mention of this?
    With everyone having 20 children and living 800 years, what Cain said makes sense to me.
    Last edited by Noeb; Mar 31st 2012 at 05:58 AM.

  7. #22

    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by awestruckchild View Post
    And here is another intriguing thing:
    God said let there be light, DAYS before He created the sun and moon....
    He was letting the light from the first heaven shine on earth because it was covered in darkness.

  8. #23
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    He was letting the light from the first heaven shine on earth because it was covered in darkness.
    Yes!!!
    And why and how is it that God created something covered in darkness?
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  9. #24

    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by awestruckchild View Post
    Yes!!!
    And why and how is it that God created something covered in darkness?
    Why? It was ruined because of Lucifer's rebellion. It wasn't a creation. It was already there. Its creation was in Genesis 1:1. What follows was a reconstruction from ruin because his hidden mystery had not been made known.

    How? He said so. Light is necessary for life.

  10. #25
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    Why? It was ruined because of Lucifer's rebellion. It wasn't a creation. It was already there. Its creation was in Genesis 1:1. What follows was a reconstruction from ruin because his hidden mystery had not been made known.

    How? He said so. Light is necessary for life.
    Yes!
    So the words could be translated to give a more complete understanding, in my opinion.
    But it isn't so necessary that it should ever cause a fight, because the Holy Spirit guides to all truth!
    And it's very nice to meet you, Noeb.
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  11. #26

    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by awestruckchild View Post
    Yes!
    So the words could be translated to give a more complete understanding, in my opinion.
    But it isn't so necessary that it should ever cause a fight, because the Holy Spirit guides to all truth!
    I don't understand. Could you explain again?

    Quote Originally Posted by awestruckchild View Post
    And it's very nice to meet you, Noeb.
    Very nice to meet you, awestruckchild!!!

  12. #27
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
    I don't understand. Could you explain again?

    Very nice to meet you, awestruckchild!!!
    When it says in Genesis, that He separated the light from the darkness and He called the light "morning" and He called the darkness "evening", and evening passed and morning came, marking the first day. This was before the sun and moon were created, so these words do not give us a good understanding. What I have found is that a better translation to give the sense of the Hebrew words would be to say: and He called the light "everlasting" and He called the darkness "adversity;a twisting away of the light."
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  13. #28

    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Light from the heaven shined toward earth but was stopped by chaos (without form and void). Light could not reach the face of the water (darkness was upon the face of the deep). It was night. God made it so this would no longer be the case. It was day. The first natural day (light) since its ruin. So we went from a natural night (dark) to a natural day (light). The next two days continue the process of cleaning up of the atmosphere so life could exist on earth again. Now it's all clear, but there's only light from the heavens, which is not enough for life as God intends. There's light but there's also dark. It's gloomy, if you will. So God made the sun and moon. That's all I see in it. There's no contrast between everlasting and adversity; a twisting away of the light.

    The sun and moon divided something. Divided One Thing. Did they divide everlasting and adversity; a twisting away of the light?

    Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    I said, "there's only light from the heavens, which is not enough for life as God intends. There's light but there's also dark. It's gloomy, if you will."
    There wasn't a distinct day and night for seasons, days and years.

  14. #29
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    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    Lol Noeb,
    I'm not TALKING about the sun and moon!
    This separation came BEFORE the sun and moon!
    The "light" from the heavens is Jesus. He is definitely enough for life as God intends! He IS life!
    The light was not shined toward earth until God commanded the light to shine - let there be Light in this darkness. Until then, He had twisted away/turned away/cast from His Presence(Light)
    It's okay, Noeb. No one seems to see what I have here. It's okay.
    "knowledge makes arrogant but love edifies"

  15. #30

    Re: Confusion early on in Genesis

    I see some of what you have there and I'm sure others do too. Part of it is not an uncommon interpretation. I just don't agree with it or what you are adding to it.

    If Jesus was the light.....

    Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night

    The sun and moon divided Jesus from what exactly?

    The verses we are discussing are about God making an atmosphere where life can exist in seasons, days and years (v14).

    The light was there (heaven -stars). In the beginning God created heaven and earth. He said let there be light in the earth that was in chaos and dark.

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