Are we born spiritually alive or dead?

[John146]

Edit to add: Mt other knot is the idea that we are born fully capable of hearing, connecting to, and obeying God. If we were born fully capable of this, more of us would go from cradle to grave connected to Him, and also it does not explain to me why Jesus came and taught us.

How do you interpret the following:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Notice that it does not say these ungodly people were born "vain in their imaginations" with darkened hearts and it doesn't say they were born as "fools". It says they "became vain in their imaginations, nd their foolish heart was darkened" and "they became fools". And it says they had no excuse for that and no excuse for not being thankful and not glorifying Him as God. Why? Paul explained that it was "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them". People aren't born with no capability of understanding and knowing who God is. This passage suggests the exact opposite of that. People are born with the capability of understanding and knowing who God is because God has made Himself known "by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead". So, this passage shows that people are not born without being "fully capable of hearing, connecting to, and obeying God.". That's why they have no excuse for not "hearing, connecting to, and obeying God" and why God's wrath is against them. Would you agree?

[awestruckchild]

How do you interpret the following:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Notice that it does not say these ungodly people were born "vain in their imaginations" with darkened hearts and it doesn't say they were born as "fools". It says they "became vain in their imaginations, nd their foolish heart was darkened" and "they became fools". And it says they had no excuse for that and no excuse for not being thankful and not glorifying Him as God. Why? Paul explained that it was "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them". People aren't born with no capability of understanding and knowing who God is. This passage suggests the exact opposite of that. People are born with the capability of understanding and knowing who God is because God has made Himself known "by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead". So, this passage shows that people are not born without being "fully capable of hearing, connecting to, and obeying God.". That's why they have no excuse for not "hearing, connecting to, and obeying God" and why God's wrath is against them. Would you agree?

Hello again, John!
I'm working on it!
If it is manifest in them, then they have no excuse and they are responsible and held accountable.
But if it is manifest in them, this ties in well with: I will write my laws on their hearts, but I can't get it to then tie in with: we are not held accountable until we hear the law. Because the law would be manifest in them....
I'm trying - i promise.
Not going to give up on working the knots out.

[sonic1115]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Born again and why the word again. When a person is born I believe he is spirtually alive and once he becomes a sinner then he dies spiritually.
For him to have a relationship with God, he needs to have his spirit that is dead because of sin to be born again.
If a person is dead spiritually at birth, then he just need to be born spiritually not born again.

I know that this is a very debateable topic, and let's keep this civil. But, what do y'all think?

I think we are born alive, and then die after God accounts/imputes sin unto us. I am throwing this in the ring, just to show what I believe. I am not baiting anyone, just want everyone's responses in a civil manner.

[Raybob]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Born again and why the word again. When a person is born I believe he is spirtually alive and once he becomes a sinner then he dies spiritually.

I'm raising 3 kids and I can tell you, people are born sinners. Everything is "mine, mine", etc. My job to raise them in the way of the Lord is to correct this sin notion we are all born with.

For him to have a relationship with God, he needs to have his spirit that is dead because of sin to be born again.
If a person is dead spiritually at birth, then he just need to be born spiritually not born again.

To be born again is to be born spiritually. Everyone is born of a woman, but only born again are born spiritually.

[Watchman]

We are born without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, so in that sense, we are spiritually stillborn; however, we are born morally neutral--innocent. We inherited the flesh from the first Adam. We inherit the Spirit of Life from the last Adam. Since we are born as fleshly, but sinless creatures, our nature dictates that all will sin before being born again. Even though God has included us in Christ's crucifixion, each of us experiences death of the old man before we experience life in Christ.

W

[awestruckchild]

Very good w!!
15.............................

[smharry]

I know that this is a very debateable topic, and let's keep this civil. But, what do y'all think?

I think we are born alive, and then die after God accounts/imputes sin unto us. I am throwing this in the ring, just to show what I believe. I am not baiting anyone, just want everyone's responses in a civil manner.

I believe we are born spritually alive. Matthew 18:3 says, "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Also Matthew 19:14 says "
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." If you must be like a child to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and if heaven is made up of inhabitants that are like little children, then I have to believe that children are considred "innocent" and spritually alive. I simply can't believe that there will be anyone who is spritually dead in the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Raybob]

I believe we are born spritually alive. Matthew 18:3 says, "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Also Matthew 19:14 says "
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." If you must be like a child to enter the Kingdom of Heaven and if heaven is made up of inhabitants that are like little children, then I have to believe that children are considred "innocent" and spritually alive. I simply can't believe that there will be anyone who is spritually dead in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus, speaking of coming "as children" is more concerning faith, than anything else. When a child's father answers a question, that child believes that answer to be true no matter what. Total faith. We need to have that kind of faith, undoubting, to enter the kingdom of God.

Luk 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

[fewarechosen]

Joh_6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

youre body can walk around and talk and breath and have a heart beat, but from Christs own mouth. If you dont drink his blood and eat His flesh you have no life in you.

so depends on whos definition of life you are using, there is a reason He said let the dead bury their dead

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

my flesh was born alive and ran around doing all kind of things thinking it was alive, then Christ pointed out to me i was dead and gave me life. I was never alive till He did that, not even when my flesh was born kicking and screaming.

[fewarechosen]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Born again and why the word again. When a person is born I believe he is spirtually alive and once he becomes a sinner then he dies spiritually.
For him to have a relationship with God, he needs to have his spirit that is dead because of sin to be born again.
If a person is dead spiritually at birth, then he just need to be born spiritually not born again.

Joh_3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

first birth is water second is spirit, hence born again