Proof that the entire future is NOT fixed

[glad4mercy]

It isn't exactly that the future is fixed, but God knows what will happen in the future. If God is omnipresent, then He exists in every timeline or alternate reality at the same time, every time. He knows what will happen based on our own free will choices. If the future were "fixed" to the extent that we had no choice, then we couldn't technically love or hate God.

This is a basic outline I wrote in the other thread, slightly reworded. Why don't some of you guys tell me which points you agree with and which points you disagree with.

1. God has perfect and precise foreknowledge.

2. What God foreknows is not an actuality until it comes to pass.

3. The fact that something has not yet occurrred does not mean that it cannot be foreknown.

4. The fact that something is foreknown does not necessarily eliminate all human freedom. God's foreknowledge is not always causative. Sometimes He foreknows that which He will Himself bring to pass, and other times He foreknows what He will allow to come to pass.

5. God not only knows what potentially might happen, He also knows what will actually happen. This does not imply a future in which everything is already predetermined, it means that God is perfect in knowledge and knows all things, not only that which has been and that which is, but also of that which will be.

6. God often speaks of what could potentially happen in order to move us to an action that will produce what He desires to actually happen. For example, God warns that a sinner will perish if they do not repent in order to move them to repentance. Or God told Hezekiah that He was going to die, in order to move Hezekiah to pray and receive 15 additional years.

7. If we do not take the action that God is moving us towards, the unwanted potentiality, ( for example Hezekiah's death), will become reality, and we may lose the blessing ( for example Hezekiah's 15 extra years) God intended for us.

8. Nevertheless, these types of contingencies do not affect God's foreknowledge which is perfect, entire, and free.

[Pointy]

I'm not interested in discussing the definition of the word "day" as it is used there. That's beside the point. The point is that the day was measured by the existince of light and darkness and them being separated into day and night or morning and evening. Light and darkness were created. So, if time could be measured before light and darkness were created then I'd like to know how exactly that could be the case.

My point is exactly what you say. Our way of perceiving time is entirely different from His, so when He explains to man what measurement of time is used it's a phrase for our understanding. Before creation existed there was no need to measure time in a linear fashion the way we see it, because God understands it more deeply and fully than we do anyway.

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Exactly. If time is uncreated, why would that mean TIME = GOD?

It doesn't mean Time = God. It means Time is LIKE or AS God by being inherently eternal and uncreated.

I can't justify or reconcile anything else being uncreated and co-equal or co-eternal with God. Nobody has to agree with me. In fact, most of my posts on BF are ignored anyway, regardless of the content.

I can't assent to the collective will of mankind determining all future reality. Molinism could drive me to Calvinism. I now wholly reject it after these threads. It's a concession to man and a diminution of God.

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm only speaking of measurable time as we know it. Is there some way to measure time apart from day and night (light and darkness, morning and evening)?

Let's stick with Isa. 38.8 for a bit longer. What're your thoughts on God reversing the sun's skyward circuit? What happened to time when He did that?

[Yahweh1]

God is the ONLY Eternal constant that exists, as time/space/matter/angels/people etc ALL derive their existence to His creation of them!

God existed.period.self existant, then decided to Create all other things!

God IS indeed sovereign in his creation, can go in and out of it as He wills, but NOT contained within it!

the future is fully known to Him, in that there ARE indded events that will happen because He has ordained it already, such as Second Coming of christ, and the End time events!

[glad4mercy]

God is the ONLY Eternal constant that exists, as time/space/matter/angels/people etc ALL derive their existence to His creation of them!

God existed.period.self existant, then decided to Create all other things!

God IS indeed sovereign in his creation, can go in and out of it as He wills, but NOT contained within it!

the future is fully known to Him, in that there ARE indded events that will happen because He has ordained it already, such as Second Coming of christ, and the End time events!

Good post Yahweh 1. This is the position I hold as well.