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Thread: Hello

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Re: Hello

    Quote Originally Posted by Tirapu View Post
    Yes, if God exists, I challenge him to prove to me he exists. I'll accept proof which I can't share with others - in which case, he'll remain hidden or unprovable.

    ... For him to prove to me he exists.

    ... Just enough to convince me he exists.

    ... I'm looking for God to prove to me he exists. It is my challenge to God.

    ... my primary objective is for God to prove to me he exists.
    Why should God have to prove Himself to you?

    It would be far easier if there was proof that God existed. Everyone in the world would be forced to follow in Him simply because there would be no way to deny His existence. So theoretically everyone would have what they wanted - everyone would believe in God because everyone would know He was there, and so there would be no sense in disbelieving; and God would have billions of followers.

    But with proof comes a lack of choice. The 'belief' part of it disappears, and everyone would be a follower instead. But if everyone all over the world followed, and was convinced by God's everyday presence, perhaps, or maybe the daily miracles that occurred, everyone would become desensitised to His presence. A bit like the presence of motor vehicles nowadays - they are so common you hardly notice them on the roads, yet when they were first produced they were the object of fascination.

    With the existence of proof, everyone would be forced to acknowledge God's existence if they wanted to or not - if they didn't, they would be denying the evidence.

    But God wants people to choose to believe He exists, rather than forcing everyone to believe. And yes, choosing to believe in something that cannot be proven is rather hard, especially when it's all in a book written more than 2000 years ago. But there are small steps in people's beliefs without them seeing the proof, that happen every day.

    I believe that gravity exists. I have been told that it has been proven to exist. But I personally have not seen the proof.

    I believe that the air exists, and there are different layers of it way above the Earth. I have seen illustrations of it. I know different elements are in the air. But air isn't visible to me in general, except, for instance, on a windy day. According to the weather forecasts, air in the form of wind moves above the world and brings different weather. But I have seen no more proof than the squiggles on the TV forecast.


    Maybe you have heard of Saul of Tarsus. He was a Jew who violently persecuted those who were following Jesus, after Jesus had been put to death. Yet one day he had an encounter with the risen Jesus. This was enough to change him from anti-Jesus to pro-Jesus. Saul of Tarsus is St Paul. You can read about him, and his conversion, here http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religi...y/paul_1.shtml

    So belief in God isn't so much about being given proof as to looking for it. From my own studies I have found that the interior of cells is miraculous, and it is hard to believe that such a refined thing arose purely from evolution. But that isn't definitive proof that God exists. You have to take a step, find out about Jesus and try to see things objectively rather than sceptically. You have to search honestly for God. God revealing himself to sceptics would be far too easy. God will know the disbelief in your heart and it's a kind of veil that keeps you apart.

    I have myself only really begun my Christian journey and so I am going off belief alone. Yet people here further on in their Christian walk have had proof to themselves that He exists. Try reading people's testimonies in the testimony forum: they can be food for thought.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    pushed out by those who say they're my brother
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    Re: Hello

    A man named Saul, later called Paul, in the bible was in a position of authority during the growth of the church of God in the first century, and he ruthlessly persecuted the Jews who were turning to Jesus as their Messiah. Paul later became an apostle of Jesus Christ after having an encounter with the resurrected, risen Jesus. In the book of Romans, the Apostle Paul wrote, “that which is known about God is evident within man for God made it evident to them” (Romans 1:19). We’re born knowing there is a God because God makes it evident within us. I know that’s not the kind of proof you’re looking for, but I want you to understand why, as a child, you pondered the concept of God at all. The Apostle Paul also wrote, “for since the creation of the world God’s invisible attributes, His eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood through what has been made, so that man is without excuse” (Romans 1:20). God tells us, through Paul’s writing, that what He has written on your heart and what He has revealed to you through His grand creation are proof enough of His existence. Again, this is probably not the proof you’re looking for, but God tells us He considers it enough and when we stand before God, it is this evidence that will leave us without excuse for not believing in the God of creation. It is true that for some people, like the Apostle Paul, God creates a miraculous event in order to convince a person of His existence. At first, this may sound unfair, but it’s not. God tells us that He has given every single man ample evidence to believe that He exists. If God wants to make Himself known in a more powerful way to any given man, He can do that, because it doesn’t take away from the ample evidence that He’s already given every other man who's ever lived.

    Now, for a personal experience. One evening as I was saying goodnight to my 9 year old, he asked me, “How can I know for sure that God is real and that He really hears my prayers?” I told him that he should pray and then look for God’s answer to his prayer. Understandably, he asked how to look for an answer. I told him that it depends on the prayer. I said, “Whatever you pray, make sure it’s something meaningful to you. For example, if you have compassion for the poor, pray for the poor and ask God to let you know that He has heard your prayer. An example of God’s answer would be you getting a letter in the mail from a poor person the next day." So, the next evening as I was saying goodnight, I was about to walk out of the room, and I stopped and said, “Son, did you happen to pray to God last night like we talked about and look for His answer?” He said, “Yes, mommy but God didn’t answer.” I told him that it was okay because God doesn’t always answer us right away. I asked, “What did you pray for?” He told me that he liked my suggestion because he really does care for the poor. My heart skipped a beat, because just before I walked up to say goodnight to him, I casually flipped through the mail we got that day, and there was a letter from a little, poor girl in Africa. We had recently sponsored this girl and we had NEVER received a letter from her before. My son had NEVER received a letter from any poor child before. When I saw the letter, it didn’t even come to my mind that I had made that suggestion the night before. When my son told me what he had prayed for, I raced downstairs and brought him the letter. He opened it and read the sweet, grateful words of this little African girl. My son looked at me with big eyes and said, “Now I know for sure that God is real and He really does hear my prayers.”

    I’ve told this story many times since then, because I believe it’s a miracle. I think God knew that letter would arrive the next day, and I believe God put that suggestion in my heart. I think God put the desire in my son’s heart to pray for what I suggested. I believe God did all this for my son…and for me. Some with whom I’ve shared this story think of all kinds of reasons to not believe it was from God. That is their choice. And now it’s your choice to take what you want from it.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    pushed out by those who say they're my brother
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    Re: Hello

    Just wanted to thank you for your many threads. Many non-believing lurkers genuinely seeking God who are hesitant to become members will read our replies and come to faith. It's so awesome!

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