Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

[awestruckchild]

It is because we are so fallen, that we must depend on His righteousness instead of our own. We can let this thread go anywhere it goes, especially with the Lord leading the discussion.

I think, at some point, the concept of grace must come in. But for now, instead of defining holiness or righteousness, can I ask what makes us holy or what makes us righteous? Here's an interesting story from the OT.

Ex 3:1-6

3 Now Moses was pasturing the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian; and he led the flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 The angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed. 3 So Moses said, " I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up." 4 When the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am." 5 Then He said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground." 6 He said also, " I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.
NASU

What made that ground holy?

Gasp!
The ground was holy because God was there!
There was no other reason!

I think it once again boils down to me not quite believing what He has said.

Don't call unholy what God has called holy....you will just be found to be arguing with God.

Still have a knot here but you've given me quite a lot to work with.
Thanks, you're a peach!

[awestruckchild]

Or the underlined can read : very/true/exact Image (figure) of his substance, or the expression of his substance.
Wycliffe New Testament

Jesus and Father both being God, there will be no difference in their character regarding moral and ethical qualities. They will always be in agreement (one) with each other.

What I see as characteristic differences:
The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father.
Jesus says, that Father is greater than Him (John 10:29)
Jesus is Mediator,
He is the visible God,
Jesus reveals the Father....
The only way to the Father is through Jesus
Jesus is Messiah (Savior), He is the Lamb slain,
Jesus is the Judge



Just like the revelation of God's Name.
I see with every time we read of (or are introduced to) a new name of God, it reveals a new characteristic of Him.
So the further in time we go... into the NT, He reveals different characteristics of Himself.

Did I misunderstand your question Mark

Ta-An finally shows up to help, and we've been waiting for you - it's about time!
I see where Jesus was God's exact image/figure as in this definition.
God pouring Himself into human form to reveal to us.
Yes, He did say the Father was greater....
And He HAD emptied Himself and depended, in His human form, completely on the Father, as all of us must.
I think this has added well to the discussion.
At least it has helped me!

[Brother Mark]

Gasp!
The ground was holy because God was there!
There was no other reason!

I think it once again boils down to me not quite believing what He has said.

Don't call unholy what God has called holy....you will just be found to be arguing with God.

Still have a knot here but you've given me quite a lot to work with.
Thanks, you're a peach!

:

You got it! Christ in you, the hope of glory! When he's in us, we are made holy because "He is there!" Woo-hoo. Pardon me while I dance around a little.

Col 1:27
27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which isChrist in you, the hope of glory.
NASU

[awestruckchild]

Calm thyself.
LOL
Too early for monkey aerobics.

It IS a big mystery. It's almost as if He shows us what He demands we must see in us and about us, but yet He sees us at the same time as what He knows we will be.
But we, when we take to heart what He shows us, are distressed and forget some of what He has said....

To Him, we are already seated there and the price has been paid.
But it IS a big mystery how this can all be so when I see how wretched I can be.
BIG mystery.

[Brother Mark]

To Him, we are already seated there and the price has been paid.
But it IS a big mystery how this can all be so when I see how wretched I can be.
BIG mystery.

Because God is rich in grace and mercy and he lavishes it upon us through Christ Jesus!

[Ta-An]

Ta-An finally shows up to help, and we've been waiting for you - it's about time!

Hey I live on the other side of the world you know
Plus I had to let you get over the shock

[John 8:32]

Added a question for discussion if you guys that have already posted want to talk about it. How does your view impact your interpretation of the OT and NT?

They are both critical to salvation. If all you had was the O.T., you could come to saving knowledge (the knowledge of the new covenant).

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

It is all the Apostles and early church had including Paul.

[LookingUp]

Calm thyself.
LOL
Too early for monkey aerobics.

It IS a big mystery. It's almost as if He shows us what He demands we must see in us and about us, but yet He sees us at the same time as what He knows we will be.
But we, when we take to heart what He shows us, are distressed and forget some of what He has said....

To Him, we are already seated there and the price has been paid.
But it IS a big mystery how this can all be so when I see how wretched I can be.
BIG mystery.

What I think you might be struggling with is something called “positional truth.” How can we be considered righteous even now when we all know that all of us struggle with sin? We often see Paul describing future realities in the past tense. I think it has something to do with God being able to speak of non-existent things in terms of existing things (Rom. 4:17). In Romans 8:9, Paul teaches that even now we are no longer in the flesh but in the spirit, as if we’ve already been resurrected in Christ and are walking in the new creation even now. Of course, we don’t realize the fullness of this because the redemption of the body is not present but future (Rom. 8:23-25). In Romans 8:30, Paul teaches that we are already glorified. Our glorification is secure in the faithfulness of God’s promise, so Paul can speak of it as if it has already happened. In the same way, we can appreciate the future reality of our righteousness in Christ in the present, because what God promises, He will certainly bring to pass.

[LookingUp]

Or the underlined can read : very/true/exact Image (figure) of his substance, or the expression of his substance.
Wycliffe New Testament

Jesus and Father both being God, there will be no difference in their character regarding moral and ethical qualities. They will always be in agreement (one) with each other.

What I see as characteristic differences:
The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father.
Jesus says, that Father is greater than Him (John 10:29)
Jesus is Mediator,
He is the visible God,
Jesus reveals the Father....
The only way to the Father is through Jesus
Jesus is Messiah (Savior), He is the Lamb slain,
Jesus is the Judge



Just like the revelation of God's Name.
I see with every time we read of (or are introduced to) a new name of God, it reveals a new characteristic of Him.
So the further in time we go... into the NT, He reveals different characteristics of Himself.

Did I misunderstand your question Mark

The "characteristic differences" you listed sound like titles that reveal what one does rather than character that reveals who one is.

[awestruckchild]

This gave me goosebumps.
Post # 53

[LookingUp]

This gave me goosebumps.

What gave you goosebumps? Letting God's truth about who you are in Christ sink in?

[awestruckchild]

What gave you goosebumps? Letting God's truth about who you are in Christ sink in?

Post #53 - sorry.
I get goosebumps when someone tells the truth.

[Ta-An]

The "characteristic differences" you listed sound like titles that reveal what one does rather than character that reveals who one is.

He is visible... He does not 'do' visible
He is Messiah, He does Salvation
He is the Lamb that was slain... He does Salvation
He is the Judge, He does judging....

[Brother Mark]

He is visible... He does not 'do' visible
He is Messiah, He does Salvation
He is the Lamb that was slain... He does Salvation
He is the Judge, He does judging....

But those are positional, or descriptive, but not necessarily character traits. Character and position are two separate things, right? How he functions in his position is determined by what his character is. For instance, I can have a judge that judges rightly, or one that judges wrongly. What determines how he judges? His character.

[LookingUp]

But those are positional, or descriptive, but not necessarily character traits. Character and position are two separate things, right? How he functions in his position is determined by what his character is. For instance, I can have a judge that judges rightly, or one that judges wrongly. What determines how he judges? His character.

What he said. :-) It's all about HOW the what is accomplished.